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SRAM Force vs. Ultegra Di2

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SRAM Force vs. Ultegra Di2

Old 02-13-14, 10:45 PM
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SRAM Force vs. Ultegra Di2

I have both and I have to say that Di2 is a clear winner here. I don't know what SRAM is planning on doing but I hope they're working on something because in a few years they'll be old news.

Anyone else agree?
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Old 02-13-14, 10:49 PM
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Considering Di2 has perfect shift with auto trim, I'm not surprised you would prefer Ultrega. Overall I get sense majority agree Shimano shifts better than SRAM, smoother/crisper and the crank/BB are stiffer.

I was curious about your sentiment on SRAM also. I'm surprised they don't have electronic shifting still. My guess the YAW 22 is SRAM's answer to Campy/Shimano's electronic shifting. Soon as Campy released theirs, Shimano had theirs in development and released, I am really surprised to learn SRAM did not.

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Old 02-13-14, 11:03 PM
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This is a guess but SRAM has a hard time developing an electronic system without infringing on Shimano and Campy's designs. They might be stuck with trying to make things lighter.
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Old 02-13-14, 11:25 PM
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Sram's FD caused my chain to fall off in two different races. The screws were adjusted just enough such that the drivetrain would accommodate a 52/11 without the chain rubbing on the derailleur. If I had the choice, I'd even pick my 6700 over my sram force.

I'm going back to shimano on my race bike next chance I get. Sram FD's have always been under scrutiny, and I like my FD to work properly...
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Old 02-13-14, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by StanSeven View Post
This is a guess but SRAM has a hard time developing an electronic system without infringing on Shimano and Campy's designs. They might be stuck with trying to make things lighter.
On the other hand, I heard that Shimano got help (likely paid for) from SRAM on the redesign of DA 9000. Healthy competition is healthy and not everyone needs or wants electronic shifting. What's next? Electronic pedal assist?
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Old 02-13-14, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by bikerjp View Post
On the other hand, I heard that Shimano got help (likely paid for) from SRAM on the redesign of DA 9000. Healthy competition is healthy and not everyone needs or wants electronic shifting. What's next? Electronic pedal assist?
New for 2016: Dura Ace 9001 introduces EPA (Electronic Pedal Assist). EPA senses weak points in your pedal stroke and sends power to compensate. It monitors heart rate, and will intervene when you feel too tired, can't continue, or need a boost getting up that "hill".
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Old 02-13-14, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by bikerjp View Post
Electronic pedal assist?
Well there is that motor you place inside the seat tube and turns the crank for you. And MIT students are trying to sell a bike that has motor in the rear when you are feeling lazy.
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Old 02-13-14, 11:59 PM
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All of my bikes have had SRAM since '07 (that is, Rival, Force, Red, 2012 Red). Pretty happy with my experience but definitely going to do Shimano Di2 Ultegra next time around. The auto-trim and ease of shifting is what I'm looking forward to. I'm also disappointed with the SRAM 22 hydraulic/rim brake recall and the lack of an electronic alternative.
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Old 02-14-14, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by spectastic View Post
Sram's FD caused my chain to fall off in two different races. The screws were adjusted just enough such that the drivetrain would accommodate a 52/11 without the chain rubbing on the derailleur. If I had the choice, I'd even pick my 6700 over my sram force.

I'm going back to shimano on my race bike next chance I get. Sram FD's have always been under scrutiny, and I like my FD to work properly...
You need to find a new mechanic... and it was the Red Ti front der that had issues, not Force. Until the yaw FDs came out, the fix was to USE a force FD.
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Old 02-14-14, 06:41 AM
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OP,
I agree with you. To me new 11s Ultegra Di2 is just fantastic. What more could you ask for? Can even do bar top shifting with remote switch.
Super ergonomics. Just a tap of a finger. Di2 pricing is pretty good. I am seriously considering stripping Campy off my bike and running 11s Di2. If not this year, will likely be next. I have been waiting for the technology to settle in a bit and it has. No doubt there is some seriously funky technical advances on the horizon and cost will continue to come down. As with any advancing technology, its a matter of determining when to hop on.
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Old 02-14-14, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by TrojanHorse View Post
You need to find a new mechanic... and it was the Red Ti front der that had issues, not Force. Until the yaw FDs came out, the fix was to USE a force FD.
But the point is that you can eliminate having to find a good mechanic with Di2. It just works flawlessly all the time. I was skeptical at first too, but 5 minutes after I bought a Di2 bike I wondered where it had been my whole life. It's astounding once you try it.

Even if SRAM does come out with an electronic group, unless they have something to differentiate it from Di2 it won't catch on. They let Shimano go for too long, and now too many people have it and will stick with it because it works so well. To me it's just like the downfall of Blackberry. They held out so long with their traditional phone designs thinking no one wanted touch screens, that when they finally came to market it was too late and now the company is toast. SRAM is the same way...nobody really wants electronic shifting, our group is so much lighter, etc. I know they've had an electronic group in testing and seen the pictures of the cx race bike, but I think it might be too late.
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Old 02-14-14, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by kv501 View Post
But the point is that you can eliminate having to find a good mechanic with Di2. It just works flawlessly all the time. I was skeptical at first too, but 5 minutes after I bought a Di2 bike I wondered where it had been my whole life. It's astounding once you try it.

Even if SRAM does come out with an electronic group, unless they have something to differentiate it from Di2 it won't catch on. They let Shimano go for too long, and now too many people have it and will stick with it because it works so well. To me it's just like the downfall of Blackberry. They held out so long with their traditional phone designs thinking no one wanted touch screens, that when they finally came to market it was too late and now the company is toast. SRAM is the same way...nobody really wants electronic shifting, our group is so much lighter, etc. I know they've had an electronic group in testing and seen the pictures of the cx race bike, but I think it might be too late.
Although I agree with you about the merits of Di2 which to me are undeniable, I don't agree with what you wrote in bold. Sram has done fine being the new kid on the block competing with two entrenched incumbents like Campy and Shimano. When a good company comes late to the party, they many times bring the best dish. That's because their engineers perform in depth competitive analysis and improve on the baseline already on the market. I do agree that Di2 is a very tough act to follow. Some believe Campy EPS is head and shoulders above Di2 in overall performance in fact but that is open for debate. Campy sure can't compete with Di2 pricing and where I believe Ultegra Di2 in particular has the best advantage. Price may in fact be Sram's calling card. They may undercut Di2 pricing and bring an overall level of performance that will surprise many. Only time will tell.
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Old 02-14-14, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
Although I agree with you about the merits of Di2 which to me are undeniable, I don't agree with what you wrote in bold. Sram has done fine being the new kid on the block competing with two entrenched incumbents like Campy and Shimano. When a good company comes late to the party, they many times bring the best dish. That's because their engineers perform in depth competitive analysis and improve on the baseline already on the market. I do agree that Di2 is a very tough act to follow. Some believe Campy EPS is head and shoulders above Di2 in overall performance in fact but that is open for debate. Campy sure can't compete with Di2 pricing and where I believe Ultegra Di2 in particular has the best advantage. Price may in fact be Sram's calling card. They may undercut Di2 pricing and bring an overall level of performance that will surprise many. Only time will tell.
That is entirely possible, but I wonder whether it will be so. SRAM's approach to 11-speed manual shifting (where they also came late) has not been to undercut Shimano and Campy pricing. If what I read on the 41 is correct, they are actually in premium territory. That sets the stage for an interesting roll out one of these days.
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Old 02-14-14, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
That is entirely possible, but I wonder whether it will be so. SRAM's approach to 11-speed manual shifting (where they also came late) has not been to undercut Shimano and Campy pricing. If what I read on the 41 is correct, they are actually in premium territory. That sets the stage for an interesting roll out one of these days.
Yeah, price may not be much different as you say. So what will differentiate? Could be a tough nut to crack because it doesn't get much more ergonomic than a couple of buttons that replace Shimano's swinging brake lever which to me is the price of admission for electric shifting. Sram differentiated with their double tap that many really like. Not sure Di2's ergos can be improved on as readily. In the case of EPS, Campy retains a smaller and friendlier button compared to their larger and longer throw button on the side of the hoods with their mechanical groupsets. I will tell you I prefer the Di2 approach because I prefer a completely uncluttered hood if ergonomic shifting can be achieved which it can with Di2...especially with remote shift buttons for shifting on the tops of the bars.
So the time lapse may have something to do with the difficulty of market differentiation as mentioned by kv501.

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Old 02-14-14, 07:43 AM
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so now that everyone thinks electronic is the bees knees and it is mainstream, what is the reason people buy sram?
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Old 02-14-14, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
Although I agree with you about the merits of Di2 which to me are undeniable, I don't agree with what you wrote in bold. Sram has done fine being the new kid on the block competing with two entrenched incumbents like Campy and Shimano. When a good company comes late to the party, they many times bring the best dish. That's because their engineers perform in depth competitive analysis and improve on the baseline already on the market. I do agree that Di2 is a very tough act to follow. Some believe Campy EPS is head and shoulders above Di2 in overall performance in fact but that is open for debate. Campy sure can't compete with Di2 pricing and where I believe Ultegra Di2 in particular has the best advantage. Price may in fact be Sram's calling card. They may undercut Di2 pricing and bring an overall level of performance that will surprise many. Only time will tell.
I agree that they've been able to break in late in the past, but they had some differentiation back then too. SRAM brought a big weight savings, and double-tap shifting was brand new. Even if they use the double tap method to shift their electronic group I don't think that's really a game changer. It doesn't offer any improvement over Shimano to make it work better. I haven't mentioned EPS in my posts because it's so far out there price-wise that I don't think they really compare. Price could be their only saving grace. If they can bring a bargain electronic group out for people who can't afford Ultegra Di2 they might have a winner.
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Old 02-14-14, 07:53 AM
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I will say it in advance: I keed! But maybe SRAM will bring electronic out in 12-speed. New OLD and all. Same spacing as their current 11-speed. Back compatible with 11 speed wheels, clusters and chains. You buy the electronic 12 shifters and derailleurs and use it either on a wider 12-speed frame/wheel or on your old 11 speed stuff by just reprogramming the shifters to limit at 11. Ha, ha. Who knows, the joke could be on me.
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Old 02-14-14, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by kv501 View Post
I agree that they've been able to break in late in the past, but they had some differentiation back then too. SRAM brought a big weight savings, and double-tap shifting was brand new. Even if they use the double tap method to shift their electronic group I don't think that's really a game changer. It doesn't offer any improvement over Shimano to make it work better. I haven't mentioned EPS in my posts because it's so far out there price-wise that I don't think they really compare. Price could be their only saving grace. If they can bring a bargain electronic group out for people who can't afford Ultegra Di2 they might have a winner.
Reduced throw Double tap to shift electronically would not be as good as current Di2 set up in my opinion which I really like. A good argument that lower throw mechanical double tap is preferred to a swinging brake lever mechanical Shimano groupset but Shimano loyalists wouldn't agree with that.
I guess we will see what Sram shows up with.

Last edited by Campag4life; 02-14-14 at 08:06 AM.
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Old 02-14-14, 08:06 AM
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I put ultegra di2. On a 2013 Sram Red bike and absolutely love it!campag4life says what more could you ask for?Well it's Dura Ace 9070 DI 2,that's what.
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Old 02-14-14, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Samfujiabq View Post
I put ultegra di2. On a 2013 Sram Red bike and absolutely love it!campag4life says what more could you ask for?Well it's Dura Ace 9070 DI 2,that's what.
Sorry. You should have taken the difference in cost between Ultegra and DA Di2 and put it in a good set of wheels.
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Old 02-14-14, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
Sorry. You should have taken the difference in cost between Ultegra and DA Di2 and put it in a good set of wheels.
I am doing exactly that,the wheels are being built by Prowheel builders as I type.
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Old 02-14-14, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
Sorry. You should have taken the difference in cost between Ultegra and DA Di2 and put it in a good set of wheels.
Having ridden both, I see zero reason to buy DA9070. Now that Ultegra is 11 speed and the derailleurs don't look as clunky there is absolutely no difference in the function or how well they work. None. I would go so far as to say that you couldn't tell the difference without looking. The only reason to buy DA over Ultegra is a tiny amount of weight and being able to tell people you have the most expensive Shimano road group available. I'll never tell anyone what to do with his or her money, but if you bought 9070 over 6870 you got hosed.
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Old 02-14-14, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Samfujiabq View Post
I am doing exactly that,the wheels are being built by Prowheel builders as I type.
was just kidding you a bit. Value sweet spot is Ultegra Di2 for electronic shifting but congrats on your DA Di2 which is very sweet.
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Old 02-14-14, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by coasting View Post
so now that everyone thinks electronic is the bees knees and it is mainstream, what is the reason people buy sram?
1. Brand loyalty.

2. Weight weenies. 589 gram savings from RED to Dura Ace mechanical.

There aren't any functional advantages anymore.
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Old 02-14-14, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by kv501 View Post
Having ridden both, I see zero reason to buy DA9070. Now that Ultegra is 11 speed and the derailleurs don't look as clunky there is absolutely no difference in the function or how well they work. None. I would go so far as to say that you couldn't tell the difference without looking. The only reason to buy DA over Ultegra is a tiny amount of weight and being able to tell people you have the most expensive Shimano road group available. I'll never tell anyone what to do with his or her money, but if you bought 9070 over 6870 you got hosed.
You're simply speaking without knowing,hosed?dont think so.If you could get a one time only DA di2 for half of what any one else pays for it ,,would you?Well I did,so it was a no brainer,,and you're right,I don't justify what I buy to anyone,,my money I earned it,and I have no other vices.
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