H Plus Son Archetype
#26
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I have some worn out mavic cxp 33 rims that I need to replace on a campy chorus wheelset. I've been thinking of going with the kinlin rims to replace them because they seem to be the only ones to offer 36 holes (unless you go direct to taiwan to get the archetypes and then pay the $$ shipping). Not sure the 25-50 grams/rim will make that much difference given that bike+rider weight is in the 210-215 pound range even though I do live amongst a fair bit of hills. Do either of them cause much difficulty mounting tires that I'd want thin tape or veloplugs instead of my usual velox? I've been considering the veloplugs option anyway just to try something different.
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#27
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I have some worn out mavic cxp 33 rims that I need to replace on a campy chorus wheelset. I've been thinking of going with the kinlin rims to replace them because they seem to be the only ones to offer 36 holes (unless you go direct to taiwan to get the archetypes and then pay the $$ shipping). Not sure the 25-50 grams/rim will make that much difference given that bike+rider weight is in the 210-215 pound range even though I do live amongst a fair bit of hills. Do either of them cause much difficulty mounting tires that I'd want thin tape or veloplugs instead of my usual velox? I've been considering the veloplugs option anyway just to try something different.
I started out with Veloplugs in my Kinlins but they actually didn't stay in too well (they were the red as recommended by BHS). I was always worried one would fall out so I ran a strip of scotch tape around to hold them. But at some point I just went back to cloth tape. I mount Conti and Michelin tires on them without to much trouble. If they are new tires there might be some sweat and cursing involved but after they have been on for a bit it's fine.
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Good to know about the veloplugs. Probably stick with the velox tape then.
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#29
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Just to add more confusion to this thread - FLO Cycling just announced they'll be selling the Flo 30 as a rim only for $80 each.
Flo Cycling Blog: FLO Cycling - The FLO 30 Rim is Here!
Flo Cycling Blog: FLO Cycling - The FLO 30 Rim is Here!
#30
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Just to add more confusion to this thread - FLO Cycling just announced they'll be selling the Flo 30 as a rim only for $80 each.
Flo Cycling Blog: FLO Cycling - The FLO 30 Rim is Here!
Flo Cycling Blog: FLO Cycling - The FLO 30 Rim is Here!
I have a set of Dura Ace hubs I bought for no good reason other than they were a bargain. This might be a good match.
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That makes it heavy, with large variations in weight and over priced.
Pass.
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I can't say how they ride yet - my new bike is still being built up. Visually they're pretty great and the guys at Flo certainly seem to have done their homework on the design. I'd love to see a custom build with these.
#33
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The front wheel of the their set has a list weight of 725. Taking out the rim it would only leave 150g for the spokes, nipples and hub.
But even so, I have wheelset with some older 550g mavics. When I'm not racing what does it matter?
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On the heavier side okay, but I'm a clyde and their builds are rated up to 240lbs so I'm okay with a bit of extra weight. Not sure about the tolerances as I haven't seen other rim company's published numbers. That said, there's been plenty of posts about wheels coming in over published weights so perhaps not too unusual? Price wise, at Prowheelbuilder.com, a price of $80 puts them higher than Kinlin's and H+Son's, but below Pacenti and HED's.
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I saw the weight listing, but figured it may be a typo.
The front wheel of the their set has a list weight of 725. Taking out the rim it would only leave 150g for the spokes, nipples and hub.
But even so, I have wheelset with some older 550g mavics. When I'm not racing what does it matter?
The front wheel of the their set has a list weight of 725. Taking out the rim it would only leave 150g for the spokes, nipples and hub.
But even so, I have wheelset with some older 550g mavics. When I'm not racing what does it matter?
These rims are very heavy which, to me, is a design issue.
What is most troubling is the +/- 20g tolerance. That's 7%! The KinLin rims and the alloy rims we make are +/-5g. It's extruded alloy and a basic pin and sleeve. That should be pretty easy to control.
Glue on a non-structural faring and you have every rim they make.
Not a fan.
#36
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I really don't understand the appeal of this brand.
These rims are very heavy which, to me, is a design issue.
What is most troubling is the +/- 20g tolerance. That's 7%! The KinLin rims and the alloy rims we make are +/-5g. It's extruded alloy and a basic pin and sleeve. That should be pretty easy to control.
Glue on a non-structural faring and you have every rim they make.
Not a fan.
These rims are very heavy which, to me, is a design issue.
What is most troubling is the +/- 20g tolerance. That's 7%! The KinLin rims and the alloy rims we make are +/-5g. It's extruded alloy and a basic pin and sleeve. That should be pretty easy to control.
Glue on a non-structural faring and you have every rim they make.
Not a fan.
The XC 279 was originally listed as 472g. My 4 rims were all over 480. And I have seen recent weighing at 497. The XR300s I built were 15 and 20g over list, and I know Psimet has commented that getting the 270 over the 300 to save weight won't always work because he has had them weigh just as much and they list at 20g apart. Fwiw, my A23s are also overweight, but I did have set of Kinlin XR19Ws and some other Velocitys that were spot on. I don't remember if I weighed any of my mavics or HEDs.
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I really don't understand the appeal of this brand.
These rims are very heavy which, to me, is a design issue.
What is most troubling is the +/- 20g tolerance. That's 7%! The KinLin rims and the alloy rims we make are +/-5g. It's extruded alloy and a basic pin and sleeve. That should be pretty easy to control.
Glue on a non-structural faring and you have every rim they make.
Not a fan.
These rims are very heavy which, to me, is a design issue.
What is most troubling is the +/- 20g tolerance. That's 7%! The KinLin rims and the alloy rims we make are +/-5g. It's extruded alloy and a basic pin and sleeve. That should be pretty easy to control.
Glue on a non-structural faring and you have every rim they make.
Not a fan.
The Flo 30 in a clyde build with Sapim CX rays rated up to 240+ pounds at 1652g for $498.00 is a pretty good deal from the comparison shopping I did. Same weight as the Boyd Altamont clyde build, but at $152 less.
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Have you read up on them at all? They've done a lot of research and concluded that in most cases, aero trumps weight. Therefore they want to build wheels that maximize aero advantages, with a little bit of a weight penalty to keep prices down. Their wheels have been tested pretty extensively in wind tunnels and the data is impressive.
The Flo 30 in a clyde build with Sapim CX rays rated up to 240+ pounds at 1652g for $498.00 is a pretty good deal from the comparison shopping I did. Same weight as the Boyd Altamont clyde build, but at $152 less.
The Flo 30 in a clyde build with Sapim CX rays rated up to 240+ pounds at 1652g for $498.00 is a pretty good deal from the comparison shopping I did. Same weight as the Boyd Altamont clyde build, but at $152 less.
#39
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I really don't understand the appeal of this brand.
These rims are very heavy which, to me, is a design issue.
What is most troubling is the +/- 20g tolerance. That's 7%! The KinLin rims and the alloy rims we make are +/-5g. It's extruded alloy and a basic pin and sleeve. That should be pretty easy to control.
Glue on a non-structural faring and you have every rim they make.
Not a fan.
These rims are very heavy which, to me, is a design issue.
What is most troubling is the +/- 20g tolerance. That's 7%! The KinLin rims and the alloy rims we make are +/-5g. It's extruded alloy and a basic pin and sleeve. That should be pretty easy to control.
Glue on a non-structural faring and you have every rim they make.
Not a fan.
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I don't really see of the head-to-head data you're looking for on Zipp's website at all - does that mean their wheels aren't aero? In fact, the writeup for the Zipp 30 specifically tests head to head against a box section rim??? Guess their wheels suck.
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I wasn't hyping anything. I was simply saying that the claimed aero advantages with Flo wheels are backed with data. I don't see a whole lot of data for H+Son, Kinlin's, or even Belgium's to back up their aerodynamic claims.
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i have never heard of any of those rims even being claimed as being "aerodynamic"?
#44
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^ Really? I've certainly heard the claim that wider (23 vs ~19) is more aero...maybe that's what he means?
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Look up the description for HED Belgiums on the Wheelbuilder website. Look up any description for Kinlin or H+son archetypes on the various custom Wheelbuilder sites. They're all referred to as "aero" rims, either regarding either the depth or the wider widths.
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The typical benefit of a wider profile is a ride that is more like a tubular setups, but the thing i noticed most was better handling, since the 23mm tire shape has less of a bulb-like profile when it sits on a 23mm brake track.
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That being said tho, the Flo 30's do look like a mighty good option, especially with that toroidal shape much like the zipp 101's.
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HED named their C2 series rims after the lower coefficient of rolling resistance (Crr) and higher aerodynamics (Cda) provided by the 23mm wide rims. With 23c tires, the C2 rim creates a constant tire profile, rather than getting pinched into the rim. The overall ride quality is improved and the result is tubular-like ride quality from a clincher tire. The smooth transition from the tire to the edge of the rim allows laminar air flow and lower aerodynamic drag.
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