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Any Converts from 23 to 25 Tires?

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Any Converts from 23 to 25 Tires?

Old 03-26-14, 07:45 PM
  #51  
adefeatedman
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I switched from 23mm GP4000s to 25mm Pro4 Endurance and couldn't be happier. Perhaps its the aluminum frame bike that makes the extra cushion from the wider tires so welcomed.
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Old 03-26-14, 07:57 PM
  #52  
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Schwalbe one 25mm on one set of wheels and Challege Paris Roubaix 27mm on another wheelset. Latex tubes.

The Schwalbe are comfortable and fast. Sublime. I can't ask more from a tire.

The Challege Paris Roubaix are more like 31mm and are much heavier than advertised.
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Old 03-26-14, 08:11 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by rangerdavid View Post
most of the really good riders at our local lbs (some local pros and the local college team) are all riding 28's. I can't really tell a big difference in 23 to 25, but I haven't ridden 28's.
I ride them because of the chip-seal and gravel roads around here. A lot of the ranch roads will be part dirt or gravel and I don't like to be limited in my options.

25s are good though. I was doing a descent on an unfamiliar road and it turned to hardpack with ruts. I had some Schwalbe Durano 25mm tires and they did just fine. I wouldn't want to do that the whole ride, but for five miles it was fine.

For 28mm, I have some Kenda Kwest and Challenge Strada. Can't tell a bit of difference between them except for the price tag.

Last edited by Jiggle; 03-26-14 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 03-26-14, 08:46 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Weatherby View Post
Schwalbe one 25mm on one set of wheels and Challege Paris Roubaix 27mm on another wheelset. Latex tubes.

The Schwalbe are comfortable and fast. Sublime. I can't ask more from a tire.

The Challege Paris Roubaix are more like 31mm and are much heavier than advertised.
You're the third person that I've heard mention the shwalb one's I was thinking of getting them in perhaps the tubeless version. I had heard that they're pretty much a race only tire without much flat protection. How have they lasted how many miles?
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Old 03-26-14, 08:59 PM
  #55  
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During the George Bush era I rode handmade 25mm tubulars. During the Barack Obama era I can't afford them so I switched to a 23mm clincher from Kenda.

So, anyone want to talk about abortion now?
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Old 03-26-14, 09:46 PM
  #56  
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My first bike came with 25's on narrow rims and my second bike came with 23's on wider rims (brake surface to brake surface and the inside as well). I swapped tires on both rims so the wider rims have 25's on it and the narrower have 23's. The profiles now look more appropriate on both.

I prefer the 25's but I don't cycle for speed or endurance, just short 20ish mile rides on the weekends. Will probably try to find a pair of high pressure 28's next and see how that goes.
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Old 03-27-14, 12:07 AM
  #57  
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I'm moving to 28's with gf. Four schwalbe one tubeless's on the mail. I currently live in a relatively rural area and gravel roads are the norm so 28 works better. After we move south we might return to 25 or stay with 28. The speed difference isn't going to matter that much as it seems the 25mm is currently the fastest width out there. Pro's are moving to 25's and studies show they have less rolling resistance than 23's. With wider U-shaped rims they may even be more aero.
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Old 03-27-14, 03:45 AM
  #58  
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used to run 23mm at 100-120psi back when i was a wanna be fast guy. now that common sense and potholes have entered my life i run 28mm at 70-80psi. studies show 25-28mm will be just as fast with less pressure as a 23mm high pressure. if you feel the need for speed just go tubular.
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Old 03-27-14, 05:07 AM
  #59  
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It's worth remembering that widths are not, per se, fast, but rather tire construction is fast (or not). While yes it's true that within a given model tire the wider sizes will have lower rolling resistance, it is not true that any 25 has lower rolling resistance than any 23, because of variations in materials and construction.

The other thing worth noting is that a watt saved on a drum test in a lab does not make you faster out on the road. You'll still have to work harder to go faster on 25s than going slower on 23s because of aero drag. Yes, you can save tiny amounts of energy on a wider model maintaing the same speed as you do on the 23, but going faster always requires more watts.

Rough and unfinished road surfaces are compelling reasons to go larger, as is comfort, but ai don't think lifting your average speed over a good condition road route is.
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Old 03-27-14, 06:32 AM
  #60  
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I switched from 23mm to 25mm Conti GP4ks before this season started. I am very pleased with the improvement in ride quality so far.
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Old 03-27-14, 07:02 AM
  #61  
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I ride 25's and run a bit lower pressure. No reason not to. It may be them or it may be my age but I know I whine less than alot of the guys I ride with who run 23's and stupid high pressures when we hit rough roads.
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Old 03-27-14, 07:36 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by therhodeo View Post
I ride 25's and run a bit lower pressure. No reason not to. It may be them or it may be my age but I know I whine less than alot of the guys I ride with who run 23's and stupid high pressures when we hit rough roads.
If you're suggesting there is no reason for anyone not to run 25s, clearly you haven't given the matter any thought, or even bothered to read the thread. Let me list some of the reasons not to, most of which were mentioned above:

1. insufficient fork or frame clearance
2. insufficient clearance to work with fenders
3. hassle of removing wheels because of caliper clearance
4. no complaints with existing tire size
5. prefer feel of narrower, higher pressure tire
6. priority on aero benefits (which could be in the general sense, or wheels aero-optimized for 23s, e.g. Zipp)
7. don't like handling characteristics of 25s on narrow rim
8. current 23s have lower rolling resistance
9. preferred tire not available in 25 (e.g. the Vittoria Open Tri Evo, possibly the "fastest tire in the world" with lowest independently tested rolling resistance (see Anhalt's tire tests), or the '14 Specialized S Works Turbo (though this is technically correct, it is only available in 24 and 26, so it speaks to benefits of wider casings despite being unavailable in 25 ).

I'm not doggin' 25s-- I ride 'em myself-- but there's a tendency to look upon them as God's gift to bike tires, which they are not. They're great in some cases and for some conditions, but there's nothing special, let alone magical, about 25 width intrinsically.
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Old 03-27-14, 08:13 AM
  #63  
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My wife's old bike (Trek 1.2 Al+CF fork) has 25mm tires on the front mounted on a standard 18mm rim.

I've tried running lower pressure in front (~80 psi instead of ~90-100). It did make a noticable improvement in the ride quality, but it also resulted in a much squishier handling bike. Under aggressive braking and handling the tire wanted to squirm more. Upping the pressure improved things, but at that point you aren't seeing the ride quality advantages. I'm guessing a wider rim would make things better.

About the brake opening thing, I suspect its a combination of tire & brake setup. I like my brake pads running close to the rim. When I open the quick release it doesn't clear by 1-2mm. If you run wider brakes you won't have an issue.
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Old 03-27-14, 08:33 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
If you're suggesting there is no reason for anyone not to run 25s, clearly you haven't given the matter any thought, or even bothered to read the thread. Let me list some of the reasons not to, most of which were mentioned above:

1. insufficient fork or frame clearance
2. insufficient clearance to work with fenders
3. hassle of removing wheels because of caliper clearance
4. no complaints with existing tire size
5. prefer feel of narrower, higher pressure tire
6. priority on aero benefits (which could be in the general sense, or wheels aero-optimized for 23s, e.g. Zipp)
7. don't like handling characteristics of 25s on narrow rim
8. current 23s have lower rolling resistance
9. preferred tire not available in 25 (e.g. the Vittoria Open Tri Evo, possibly the "fastest tire in the world" with lowest independently tested rolling resistance (see Anhalt's tire tests), or the '14 Specialized S Works Turbo (though this is technically correct, it is only available in 24 and 26, so it speaks to benefits of wider casings despite being unavailable in 25 ).

I'm not doggin' 25s-- I ride 'em myself-- but there's a tendency to look upon them as God's gift to bike tires, which they are not. They're great in some cases and for some conditions, but there's nothing special, let alone magical, about 25 width intrinsically.
My utmost apologies. I could go back and type "I have" in front of "no reason not to" since thats what I meant. And the other riders I speak of in my post are rec riders on group rides. Most of them weighing over 200lbs riding 23's with 120+ pounds in them. I'm sure rolling resistance and being aero are a big concern of theirs.
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Old 03-27-14, 12:54 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
It's worth remembering that widths are not, per se, fast, but rather tire construction is fast (or not). While yes it's true that within a given model tire the wider sizes will have lower rolling resistance, it is not true that any 25 has lower rolling resistance than any 23, because of variations in materials and construction.

The other thing worth noting is that a watt saved on a drum test in a lab does not make you faster out on the road. You'll still have to work harder to go faster on 25s than going slower on 23s because of aero drag. Yes, you can save tiny amounts of energy on a wider model maintaing the same speed as you do on the 23, but going faster always requires more watts.
Excellent points that everyone keeps forgetting or doesn't know. The performance difference with reducing air pressure varies by manufacturer and tire design. You might end up feeling more comfortable but added several more watts of effort to maintain a certain speed.
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Old 03-27-14, 01:07 PM
  #66  
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I tried some 25s on a whim one year, and I never went back to 23s.

I like the feel on the road, the added durability, the option of dialing down the pressure.

Let's just call them "God's gift to bike tires."

Currently riding a 28mm rear tire, and 25mm up front. Cushy.

My favorite 25s were Maxxis Re-Fuse, but those are hard to find anymore in my city.

I can find them online, but I try to spend every cycling dollar at local shops.

If in doubt, give them a try. Most people like the ride.
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Old 03-27-14, 01:08 PM
  #67  
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I like 25s mounted on wider rims myself. This combo seems to perform better and be more comfortable. But then, I'm not a racer or anything. I ride for fun.
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Old 03-27-14, 01:44 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by dstrong View Post
I'm surprised that nobody has yet pointed out the most important point about the 25mm tire...a lot of pros are using them these days.

I suspect in a few years that most manufacturers will provide 25mm capable components on all but the most aero of bikes.
Funny you should say this. I was watching day 2 of Volta a Catalunya this morning while getting ready for work and they were actually saying how most of the pros are running 25's, especially in the bad weather they were having that day.
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Old 03-27-14, 01:47 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by robbyville View Post
You're the third person that I've heard mention the shwalb one's I was thinking of getting them in perhaps the tubeless version. I had heard that they're pretty much a race only tire without much flat protection. How have they lasted how many miles?
Maybe 400 miles.

I have not usually liked to ride tires with flat protection since they are usually very slow tires. THis one has a thin layer of protection. There is no question that this is a fast tire. Are there faster? Probably. Maybe the Vittoria CX with cotton casing. Maybe the Conti. Is there a better tire that combines everything I want? I do want to try a particular Challenge tire, the criterium. I plan to ride the Schwalbe Ones on Brevets, Centuries, training, and doubles. Changing a tube once or twice over the course of a few thousand miles that a rear tire lasts does not scare me off and if the tire saves my rear in terms of comfort, it is a worthwhile tradeoff to me.

I think they are about $70-80 a tire.
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Old 03-27-14, 01:56 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
It's worth remembering that widths are not, per se, fast, but rather tire construction is fast (or not). While yes it's true that within a given model tire the wider sizes will have lower rolling resistance, it is not true that any 25 has lower rolling resistance than any 23, because of variations in materials and construction.

The other thing worth noting is that a watt saved on a drum test in a lab does not make you faster out on the road. You'll still have to work harder to go faster on 25s than going slower on 23s because of aero drag. Yes, you can save tiny amounts of energy on a wider model maintaing the same speed as you do on the 23, but going faster always requires more watts.

Rough and unfinished road surfaces are compelling reasons to go larger, as is comfort, but ai don't think lifting your average speed over a good condition road route is.
Depends on how fast you are going as to whether lower rolling resistance tires slow you down compared to more aerodynamic, higher rolling resistance tires. The savings on the road can be 10-20 watts from one set of tires to the next, not 1 or 2. At 25+mph, 15 watts incremental is noise when considering aerodynamic effects. At 15mph, a reduction of 15-20 watts due to better tires might bump your speed by 1-1.5 mph...that is significant. Wider tires are not going to make sense for racing
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Old 03-27-14, 02:31 PM
  #71  
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There's no guarantee that a 23 on any wheel is more aero than a 25 mounted on the same wheel.
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Old 03-27-14, 03:42 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Weatherby View Post
I have not usually liked to ride tires with flat protection since they are usually very slow tires.
This may have been true ten years ago, but no longer. No doubt that Gatorskins and Armadillos are slow tires, but Conti GP4000S and Michelin Pro4 Service Course tires have very good flat protection and are among the faster clinchers available. Far more amateur racers use them than the 320 TPI Vittorias, nice though the Vittorias are.

Originally Posted by Weatherby View Post
Wider tires are not going to make sense for racing
That'd be news to the pro peloton, which has been racing on wider tires and rims for the last few years.
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Old 03-27-14, 04:54 PM
  #73  
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I want to know who is racing on 28s or 32s and if it made any difference?
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Old 03-27-14, 05:28 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by Astrozombie View Post
I want to know who is racing on 28s or 32s and if it made any difference?
Fair point insofar as referring to specific tire sizes. 32s? Nobody to my knowledge. Nominal 28s? Couldn't tell you. I can tell you that 27s are common in the spring, and that some tires that are nominal 25s are larger - specifically, the Michelin Pro4s are 27mm on my 19mm wide Open Pros and are 28+mm on 23mm rims.

My understanding is that in the context of this discussion, "wide" = >23mm.

VeloNews article on wide tires in the peloton
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Old 03-27-14, 05:38 PM
  #75  
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I now have Conti 4000S and 4000S II on two wheelsets. I most likely won't ever buy 23mm tires again. The 25s just smooth out the harshness of the road, and I like how they feel very much. I can see racers riding 23mm so as to be competitive, but for a recreational bloke like me, 25mm tires are where it is at.
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