catsnotdogs

I need a clamp-on derailleur for my new bike. Please could someone tell me whether a Campag clamp-on FD is actually a braze-on unit with a separate band or an integrated unit with the band built in so it couldn't also be used on a braze-on bike? Not sure yet which I will buy, but will either be 2014 Chorus, Record or SR.

Thanks

Homebrew01

I think they make both kinds. There are several seat tube diameters, so check your frame size before ordering.

Somebody also makes a band clamp with a braze-on tab, to mimic a braze on. Then you can use a braze-on derailleur.

Bob Dopolina 

This.

catsnotdogs

I need to clarify what I am asking for. I want to buy a Record FD for a bike without a braze-on mount. I want to know if I purchase one with 32mm clamp whether I will receive (i) a braze-on derailleur and a separate clamp, or whether I will receive (ii) a single piece derailleur. The reason why I am asking is if I recieve (i) then I will be able to use it on any bike, whereas if I recieve (ii) it will only work on a bike w/ no braze on mount and only if it is a 32mm seat tube.

Bob Dopolina 

You will receive a der with a clamp.

With 10spd you could swap out the mounts between clamp on and braze on, now, I don't know.

I would suggest ordering a braze on der and purchasing a separate braze on clamp for your current frame.

EDIT: Sorry, not clear here. I meant to say the der will have the clamp integrated into the der, not that there are two seperate pieces.

catsnotdogs

Thanks, I have a lower end Campag FD which has an integrated clamp, but was hoping the Record/SR ones would come with a separate clamp. Looks like I'll have to fork out a few extra $ and buy the braze-on mount and the clamp separately.

gfk_velo

No, the info above is not correct.

Chorus, Record and Super Record can be bought as clip-on or braze on.
You just need to specify clamp diameter or the Campag part number - for the Record and Super Record they are as follows:

FD11-SR2B SUPER RECORD 11s braze-on front der.

FD11-SR2C2 SUPER RECORD 11s clip-on front der. ø 32 mm

FD11-SR2C5 SUPER RECORD 11s clip-on front der. ø 35 mm


FD11-RE2B RECORD 11s braze-on front der.

FD11-RE2C2 RECORD 11s clip-on front der. ø 32 mm

FD11-RE2C5 RECORD 11s clip-on front der. ø 35 mm

Chorus (should you need it) is the same format with "CH" in place of the "SR" or "RE" etc.

You can go for the braze-on option with the clip but make sure it's a Campag clip - others may not put the FD in the correct place relative to the seat tube and shifting may be impaired - we see that all the time.

HTH
Graeme
Head tech at Campagnolo main Service Centre UK

Bob Dopolina 

Graeme,

Aren't there really two issues at place with using a clamp not specifically for Campagnolo?

The first is where the der will be positioned relative to the seat tube as you state but isn't the radius of the interface between the der and the mount also slightly different? I am working from memory here so I may be wrong on the second point.

Also, I know you could take a 10 spd der and remove the clamp and convert it between sizes or into a braze on (dont remember the part numbers) for Record and Chorus (IIRC). Is this still possible with 11spd? Looking briefly at mt 11spd SR mech it doesnt appear so.

catsnotdogs

What is not correct? I know I have two options here:

(i) Purchase [RECORD 11s clip-on front der. ø 32 mm]

(ii) Purchase [RECORD 11s braze-on front der] + [Campagnolo Front Bicycle Derailleur Clamp Band]

If I go option (i), from what Bob stated it will come as an integrated unit and I will therefore not be able to use on my other "braze-on" bike.

If I go option (ii) I will be able to use on both bikes.

But when you say that this is not correct, are you suggesting that (i) is NOT a one piece unit and it actually comes with two pieces (a braze-on compatible derailleur PLUS a separate clamp)? Please could you clarify.

sbxx1985 

Welcome to BF. Please stay.

eja_ bottecchia

This^^^

I have Campy Record braze-on on my Colnago C59.

I have Campy Record clamp on for my Bianchi Infinito.

They are both specific to the type of mount.

And yes Graeme...welcome and stick around. We could benefit from your expertise.

gfk_velo

@catsnotdogs

Sorry, I should have included a quote - I was replying to Bob Doppolina's "you will receive a der with a clamp" but re-reading it, it may be a matter of my mis-interpreting what he means in any case ...

So, to be clear ...

Clamp-on has an integrated clamp & is specific to seat tube size.

Braze-on is for braze-on or other frame-fitted bracket of simlar format and can be used with a separate clamp if required (as Campagnolo do in the case of all EPS front derailleurs, for instance).

So yes - buy a clamp-on type and you can only ever use it on that specific size of seat tube. Buy a braze-on type and you can fit to a suitable frame fitting, or you can buy the appropriate size of (we recommend Campagnolo) clamp and fit it to a nominal OD 32 or 35 mm seat tube.

Sorry for confusion sown - not intentional!
@Bob Dopolina - yes, there can be issues with the internal radius of the FD mount itself on some 3rd party clamps, but not universally so - as an example, the clamp sold under the Tiso brand (and several other brands, too, I think) fits the Campag derailleur very well and places it correctly - many others don't though. Hence it's generally safest to go with the genuine Campag item - we'd advise the same approach (with our general mechanic's training heads on) with any other brand. Systems are becoming increasingly dependant on being used as a complete system and FD mounting is a detail area often overlooked.

Derailleur mount swapping is no longer possible, it died out in the 2009 & 10 ranges (10 and early 11s) as the quest for lighter weight and simpler manufacture led to a re-working of the FD body - there was also the issue of avoiding 11s cages being fitted to 10s clamps and vice versa as the offsets of the clamps differ slightly. It's a shame, we found it useful for stock control here at the SC!

@sbxx1985 - We have a Google Alert set up for Campag and Campagnolo so whenever we see a forum post flagged, we'll check it and respond if appropriate - so no doubt I'll be posting here again at some point ... so thank you for the welcome!

@eja_ bottecchia - see above :-)

Cheers all
GFK

RollCNY

Not to ask a dumb question, but with so many carbon frames having an integrated braze on adapter, wouldn't you see this same issue with different frame manufacturers? Or is the issue whether the clamp on adapter lines up correctly with the seat tube angle, which becomes a non-issue with a properly placed integrated braze on?

gfk_velo

@RollCNY - there are no dumb questions :-D
This can be an issue with frame manufacturers, yes - problems there are legion, as fitting placement seems a bit random in some cases, especially on open-mould, no-name frames (having said that, most of the recognised manufacturers are fine), plus the functional rigidity of those mountings is sometimes questionable - whether it is the fitting iteslf flexing, or the base of the fitting flexing against, or in sympathy with, the tube ...
My own preference is for clamp-on fixing or a brake-on and clip .... but of course these two possibilities are not always available ... where we see a frame with a fitting on the seat tube, that has persistent front shift issues, we usually measure up (not always that easy) and occasionally pack the fitting to move the FD "back" or to influence the angle - but if the fitting places the FD too far out or too near to the tube laterally, or too far back, there isn't a great deal to be done ...

eja_ bottecchia

@gfk_velo

Thanks for the info. The front derailleurs (and the RD as well) on my C59 and Infinito work flawlessly. The "cheaper" Athena groupset on my 1989 Bottecchia works equally flawlessly. Mile after mile, shift after shift. In fact, they all work so well that I really don't see the need to go to EPS.

Incidentally, and not to hijack the thread, I just finished servicing the hubs on all my bikes (Fulcrum Racing Zero Ltd Ed. on the C59, Campy Eurus on the Infinito and Record on the Bottecchia) and I have to say that Campy hubs are amazing: easy to service, quality made and long lasting. The CULT bearings on the Fulcrum wheels are still fresh and feel like new. Keep up the good work.

Bob Dopolina 

Thanks for the update.

I used to run the Campagnolo SC in Taiwan until 2008 when I left to open my own company. We serviced Taiwan for OE and aftermarket as well as China, HK and Singapore in the aftermarket. As you mentioned, being able to swap FD mounts was great for managing inventory.

Now that I have been away for a few years I find that I have fallen behind in my product knowledge. I used to be able to help people on BF with their Campagnolo related questions but I really can't anymore.

I do hope someone from your SC sticks around to answer many of the questions that come up from time to time regarding Campagnolo. It would be a real benefit to the forum.