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Is SRAM in decline?

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Is SRAM in decline?

Old 06-27-14, 07:26 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by roadandmountain View Post
lol.
Suntour was great until they held out on index shifting.

They missed the boat, and could never recover.
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Old 06-27-14, 08:35 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht View Post
Suntour was great until they held out on index shifting.

They missed the boat, and could never recover.
Is Suntour on the incline?

Wouldn't that be something if the new Suntour came out with a full road group.
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Old 06-27-14, 08:39 PM
  #103  
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Sram XX1 is the best shifting I've ever experienced. Going back to my lowly 9-speed XTR was a tad depressing.

Still haven't tried their road stuff, though.
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Old 06-27-14, 11:28 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by gsa103 View Post

Other factors:


1) Mass market adoption of road discs.
Its already happening, and SRAM just introduced a full line of hydraulic road shifters. Shimano only offers hydraulics with Di2. This puts SRAM is a great position for a ~$2k carbon bike with hydraulic discs, which is a nice sweet spot.
Most of the new endurance frames have disc variants now, all it needs is a UCI ruling and it will really take off.

My bet is on big resurgence in SRAM stuff for 2015, with Shimano playing catch-up in 2016 for hydraulics.
fyi... Shimano has released Ultegra level road hydraulics....
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Old 06-28-14, 01:46 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by UnfilteredDregs View Post
fyi... Shimano has released Ultegra level road hydraulics....
With cable shifters? I haven't seen those yet, but I haven't been looking either.
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Old 06-28-14, 07:03 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
Is Suntour on the incline?

Wouldn't that be something if the new Suntour came out with a full road group.
My first 2 bikes with index shifting were an MBK with Suntour and a Peugeot with Sachs-Huret Aris Rival. My understanding is SRAM bought the old Sachs factory years later and produces a lot of their stuff there. I'm not sure if that's where the Rival group name came from.
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Old 06-28-14, 08:29 AM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht View Post
With cable shifters? I haven't seen those yet, but I haven't been looking either.

Shimano marries hydraulic disc brakes with mechanical shifting - VeloNews.com

https://road.cc/content/news/115210-s...nical-shifting
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Old 06-28-14, 04:21 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
Sram XX1 is the best shifting I've ever experienced. Going back to my lowly 9-speed XTR was a tad depressing.

Still haven't tried their road stuff, though.
Sometimes it not the shifter......
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Old 06-28-14, 05:13 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by badger1 View Post
Evidence (real evidence)? I have SRAM on both bikes; X9/Avid on mtb (circa 2007); Apex/Rival mix on road (circa 2011). Chain/cassette replacement aside, not a single issue with either; not one.
I had to return 3 different shifters and 1 derailler. LBS told me this was common. LBS said SRAM is the best at replacing "no questions asked" but SRAM parts also need replacing more often than any others they sell (Shimano/Campy).
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Old 06-29-14, 11:35 AM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by donrhummy View Post
I had to return 3 different shifters and 1 derailler. LBS told me this was common. LBS said SRAM is the best at replacing "no questions asked" but SRAM parts also need replacing more often than any others they sell (Shimano/Campy).
Fair enough!
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Old 06-30-14, 09:27 PM
  #111  
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I've used Shimano, Campy, and SRAM over the years. I liked Shimano shifting but their shifters were never comfortable and I couldn't stand having to shift using the brake lever. I loved the fit of Campy's shifters but parts were pricey and I wasn't that big a fan of the thumb shifter. SRAM filled the void of what I hoped Campy and Shimano would be; I've been using it for the past 7 years and have no complaints. It's been reliable as well as easy to maintain.
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Old 07-01-14, 03:12 AM
  #112  
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The oldest part(s) on my bike is a pair of SRAM Red shifters from 2008. They are on its third bike...and so far...they have been reliable.
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Old 07-01-14, 07:16 AM
  #113  
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SRAM supposedly upset a bunch of retailers (and possibly bike makers too?) with their ill-timed product releases back in 2013. News of SRAM Red 22 came only months after 2013 SRAM Red hit the market and bike shops had a hard time moving SRAM Red equipped bikes on account of all the people holding out for 11 speed.
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Old 07-01-14, 08:12 AM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by I <3 Robots View Post
The oldest part(s) on my bike is a pair of SRAM Red shifters from 2008. They are on its third bike...and so far...they have been reliable.
Not every Ford Pinto exploded either, but that doesn't meant the ones that didn't explode were a quality automobile.
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Old 07-01-14, 08:13 AM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by roadiejorge View Post
I've used Shimano, Campy, and SRAM over the years. I liked Shimano shifting but their shifters were never comfortable and I couldn't stand having to shift using the brake lever. I loved the fit of Campy's shifters but parts were pricey and I wasn't that big a fan of the thumb shifter. SRAM filled the void of what I hoped Campy and Shimano would be; I've been using it for the past 7 years and have no complaints. It's been reliable as well as easy to maintain.
cool story.

What does it have to do with the topic?
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Old 07-01-14, 08:27 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by rms13 View Post
SRAM is for people that want good shifting and ergonomics and care more about riding than about status
As someone who works on lots of lots of bikes, I will say, unequivocally, that Sram parts, most notably the road parts, are simply not built to tolerances that make for long service life. I had a well-ridden bike in the shop last week with 1st Gen. Dura Ace.....you know....from the '70's, and the rear derailleur STILL had less slop than the Scott with brand new RED that was in the stand. My personal 7800 Dura Ace kit with 30K on it is tighter and more precise than brand new RED.

The best thing about Sram is that they are happy to throw warranty parts at people because they know lots of slop gets past QC.

Frankly, I don't care about status, but to my eye, the real status seekers are the SRAM RED/Campy SR types that will put up with anything just so they can say they don't have Shimano. I just want my bike parts to last, not require constant tweaking when set up correctly, and be well thought-out in terms of installation.
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Old 07-01-14, 08:56 AM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by BikeWise1 View Post
As someone who works on lots of lots of bikes, I will say, unequivocally, that Sram parts, most notably the road parts, are simply not built to tolerances that make for long service life. I had a well-ridden bike in the shop last week with 1st Gen. Dura Ace.....you know....from the '70's, and the rear derailleur STILL had less slop than the Scott with brand new RED that was in the stand. My personal 7800 Dura Ace kit with 30K on it is tighter and more precise than brand new RED.

The best thing about Sram is that they are happy to throw warranty parts at people because they know lots of slop gets past QC.

Frankly, I don't care about status, but to my eye, the real status seekers are the SRAM RED/Campy SR types that will put up with anything just so they can say they don't have Shimano. I just want my bike parts to last, not require constant tweaking when set up correctly, and be well thought-out in terms of installation.
I would like to understand the psychology behind the bitter dislike of Shimano.
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Old 07-01-14, 09:01 AM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by embankmentlb View Post
I would like to understand the psychology behind the bitter dislike of Shimano.
People love the underdog. The big successful company is evil.

Some people like SRAM because it's an American company.
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Old 07-01-14, 09:09 AM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by embankmentlb View Post
I would like to understand the psychology behind the bitter dislike of Shimano.
The vast majority of bike riders don't hate Shimano. Only a weird, obsessed few not unlike the hate directed toward Trek and Specialized.
Same with Campy. Hate directed toward Campy is based upon ignorance. In fact most road bikers know nothing about Campy...haven't even seen it or even tried it because it isn't that common. Its very reliable, beautiful and not expensive...at least the Centaur and Athena stuff is or comparable in price to Shimano and Sram. I just picked up some DA 9001 shifters for $450 and you can pick up some Record shifters for $100 less. Haters are gonna hate is the lesson here and no shortage sadly throughout the world.

Last edited by Campag4life; 07-01-14 at 09:12 AM.
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Old 07-01-14, 09:23 AM
  #120  
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From a quick Google search:

Shimano annual bicycle sales: About $2.7 billion
Sram annual sales: About $520 million
Campagnolo annual sales: About $150 million.
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Old 07-01-14, 09:28 AM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by dru_ View Post
This is pretty close IMO. Red is very much their high end, and it competes well with mechanical Dura Ace though it is priced closer to Ultegra than Dura-Ace. Rival is priced closer to 105, but performance and weight puts it in-line with Ultegra, While Apex sits between Tiagra and 105 in price but roughly equal to 105 in performance and weight. SRAM really has nothing in the Road lineup to compete with Claris and Sora, but you will find the occasional hybrid running SRAM parts from their mtn bike offerings where they to cover a broader section of the matrix.

That said, you can mix and match SRAM components a little easier than Shimano, so it isn't unusual to find RED shifters in use with Force deraillleurs.

Personally I find the SRAM kits easier to maintain and adjust, but the thing that sold me was the shifter. IT is such a little thing, but using a single lever for up and down shifters with the 'double-tap' just works cleaner for me. IT took about 40 miles in the saddle to overwrite years of Shimano muscle memory, but the end result is a smoother shift for me, and I shift ALOT. But the reality is that both products are VERY good, and it boils down to personal preference.
Being able to customize the brake and shifter paddle to your personal preference is a nice feature. I like my shifter paddles set a bit back from the brake. It's especially nice when selling a bike to a woman because they don't need inserts like Shimano uses, and they can be set for a smaller hand.
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Old 07-01-14, 09:31 AM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
The vast majority of bike riders don't hate Shimano. Only a weird, obsessed few not unlike the hate directed toward Trek and Specialized.
Same with Campy. Hate directed toward Campy is based upon ignorance. In fact most road bikers know nothing about Campy...haven't even seen it or even tried it because it isn't that common. Its very reliable, beautiful and not expensive...at least the Centaur and Athena stuff is or comparable in price to Shimano and Sram. I just picked up some DA 9001 shifters for $450 and you can pick up some Record shifters for $100 less. Haters are gonna hate is the lesson here and no shortage sadly throughout the world.
Personally I don't hate anything...but I can ride whatever I want and I chose Red. Never had a nickel's worth of trouble and same for my Rival bike.
I have a cross bike with 105...I will say that the shifting on that is "looser" (a bit less responsive) than Rival, but it works and that's all I care about. As crapped up as a cross bike gets, no point in putting a lot of expensive stuff on a bike I ride for fun.

Last edited by roadwarrior; 07-01-14 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 07-01-14, 09:36 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
Being able to customize the brake and shifter paddle to your personal preference is a nice feature. I like my shifter paddles set a bit back from the brake. It's especially nice when selling a bike to a woman because they don't need inserts like Shimano uses, and they can be set for a smaller hand.
It is a nice quality...especially if the paddle can be adjusted back away from the brake lever. In the case of new DA 9000 and Ultegra 6800, the whole brake lever + shift lever can be moved toward the bar with a set screw...unlike more cumbersome shims used in the previous Shimano generation. Campy is not adjustable at all in this regard and that may matter to some but not to me with long fingers. One of the things I like about Sram is the size of the paddle...much prefer it to Shimano and even to Campy which is much nicer shaped than sharp edged Shimano. I want to spend some time on new Force 22. Even if not quite up to Campy ergos, I believe it maybe just a matter of time because Sram for the short time they have been in the road bike business has made sweeping positive changes.

Last edited by Campag4life; 07-01-14 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 07-01-14, 09:43 AM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
The vast majority of bike riders don't hate Shimano. Only a weird, obsessed few not unlike the hate directed toward Trek and Specialized.
Same with Campy. Hate directed toward Campy is based upon ignorance. In fact most road bikers know nothing about Campy...haven't even seen it or even tried it because it isn't that common. Its very reliable, beautiful and not expensive...at least the Centaur and Athena stuff is or comparable in price to Shimano and Sram. I just picked up some DA 9001 shifters for $450 and you can pick up some Record shifters for $100 less. Haters are gonna hate is the lesson here and no shortage sadly throughout the world.
In my experience people do not hate Campy, we just find the obsession to it strange. Very strange.
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Old 07-01-14, 09:48 AM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
It is a nice quality...especially if the paddle can be adjusted back away from the brake lever. In the case of new DA 9000 and Ultegra 6800, the whole brake lever + shift lever can be moved toward the bar with a set screw...unlike more cumbersome shims used in the previous Shimano generation. Campy is not adjustable at all in this regard and that may matter to some but not to me with long fingers. One of the things I like about Sram is the size of the paddle...much prefer it to Shimano and even to Campy which is much nicer shaped than sharp edged Shimano. I want to spend some time on new Force 22. Even if not quite up to Campy ergos, I believe it maybe just a matter of time because Sram for the short time they have been in the road bike business has made sweeping positive changes.
People forget, it was Shimano's lack of product that opened the door for SRAM to get into road bikes.

Bike manufacturer's sitting with frames and no components. Not good. But it is easy to sell a SRAM bike because you can set up the brake and shifter separately. Especially if you have a customer with small hands and/or fingers.
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