gregf83 

Regardless of how compliant a bike is this is a sign your pedaling technique could be improved. If you feel the bike bouncing then it's likely you're unweighting either the front or rear wheel which is not a good thing while sprinting. It can happen when you are still pushing down when the pedal gets to the bottom of it's stroke which results in your body's center of gravity going up and then down on the next stroke.

Practice some high cadence drills in a lower gear to help smooth out your stroke.

rpenmanparker 

In all the many discussions about frame stiffness I have read on the 41, your post is the first one (other than some of mine) to mention the importance that smooth pedal stroke has for efficient power transfer. Thanks.

softreset

I stopped reading here. You should probably find a new LBS if that's the case.

dvdslw

Sounds like good advice, but that doesn't explain how it was not present on the Caad10? Maybe I just prefer the feel of aluminum?

coasting 

in the past, i upgraded a steel bike from dt levers to modern sti stuff. i subsequently bought a carbon frame and then moved all the components and wheels to the new bike. this way i have experience of a direct frame comparison since i rode on the same routes.

i was way faster. much much faster. this was on my regular routes of various lengths... short 40 mile route, 60 mile, and 100 miles. on the 100 mile route i was nearly half an hour faster.

rpenmanparker 

See that's the problem. Claims like yours (please, no offense intended) are so far beyond the accepted wisdom and also the claims of manufacturers and pros as well that they can't be taken seriously. Increases in speed of 10% due to a change of material and perhaps a 5 lb (max) weight difference aren't technically feasible. Your speeds can certainly be believed. Their cause being a change from steel to carbon, not so much.

Pakiwi

I have a well made steel frame that is over 30 years and a recent Carbon Frame. Understanding that it's not in a controlled environment but my rides on both bikes and on the same rides result in similar times. The noticeable thing with the carbon bike is the road dampening is better on the carbon.
To get a real idea about how much the bike has to do with time improvement a look at the average speed for the TDF over the years. Tour de France Statistics
Allan

bikefoo

@rpenmanparker, I agree there are many variables to the carbon bike being faster in my experience and @coasting experienced. I really feel the weight difference, better gearing, better components, and better ability to transfer power continuously due to carbons small bump absorption. I can tell a difference and that's what matters. I wish the pocket book didn't notice the difference though, and that's something to think about. Is the added expense worth the performance gain? All I gotta say is the carbon bike doesn't go to bars, even locked up.

Dave Cutter

Yep. The other day I mentioned having a hard time "making it up the hill" (a huge hill on my regular route). My wife asked why... wondering if I had a health issue or if my new bike was malfunctioning. I pointed out that I am not a machine.... all rides vary to some degree. From time-to-time the "big hill" is a breeze... or I struggle... generally it is just hard effort. The bicycle I am riding makes little difference.

Heart, ambition, determination, desire... all top the slight difference of comparable equipment.

Lazyass

In what way did the frame material allow you to ride 100 miles 30 minutes quicker?

spdracr39

If the psychological effect of thinking it is faster makes you a faster rider then yes. I bought a carbon bike because I wanted a carbon bike not because I wanted any improvement in performance or comfort. It really isn't that much different than my alloy bike. It was more expensive, looks better, and I can ride it and pretend to be one of the cool guys. If you are looking for any other reason to buy carbon you will be disappointed in the end.

gregf83 

Perhaps it was set up a little differently than the carbon bikes you tested? It's difficult for a bike shop to set up two bikes with the touch points in exactly the same position, same handlebars, stem etc.

wphamilton

I'm going to differ with you on this one; I believe him that it had to do with the frame. He switched from steel to carbon. other parts the same, and his speed improved.

Granted that you can't get any speed out of the material and granted that 5 pounds by itself probably wouldn't make that great a difference. But the frame may encompass that and more. Positioning, bio-mechanical differences, perhaps intangibles. He may be outside the norm but it's still a data point.

A lot of cyclists believe that carbon bikes are faster and I have to give at least a little weight to their opinion. One pulled up beside me yesterday and said jokingly "you're not supposed to be going that fast on that heavy bike". I just said sorry 'bout that, but what I thought was it's not all that heavy, you're probably faster regardless, and it wasn't all that fast - but regardless he was convinced that a nice carbon fiber bike should be much faster than a heavy aluminum bike. The attitude is so prevalent that there's likely at least a grain of truth in it.

gregf83 

You may have been faster but it wasn't due to the carbon frame unless the laws of physics don't apply in your neck of the woods. Most likely the new bike was a different geometry and you were able to (or chose to) ride in a more aerodynamic positon.

halfspeed

IME, he's dead on correct. I've had a lot of steel bikes and I wouldn't pick any of them over my carbon bike regardless of the length of the ride.

Lazyass

Tires/pressure (and wheels) have more to do with comfort than frame material. The part that touches the ground. Yeah I've had carbon.

f4rrest

I have an aluminum Allez and carbon fiber evo. It makes no difference, except on fast descents, since the evo has a higher top gear.

halfspeed

There's more to comfort and going long than suspension.

PaulRivers

I couldn't find the link in a quick search, but there was a guy recently who had ridden a specialized roubaix, then a specialized tarmac, and this year the latest specialized allez (the aluminum model) in a race, and won each time. In other words it didn't seem to make a difference. Specialized uses some new process to give it's aluminum bikes the same molding as it's carbon bikes, so don't know if that applies to it's older aluminum bikes.

The one thing carbon can do better than aluminum is reduce or eliminate road buzz, at least in every bike I've ridden so far (despite claims that tire size and such is a bigger factor, endurance-carbon has repeatedly eliminated road buzz in my hands while not a single steel or aluminum bike has).

surgeonstone

Take my steel any day over cf.

surgeonstone

Exactly.

Lazyass

Yeah, proper bike fit.

OldTryGuy

Went from steel to aluminum and the guys said I rode faster.

Went from aluminum to CF and the guys said I rode faster.

The guys don't lie and neither did my Garmin.

rpenmanparker 

Damn I wish it were that easy.

Lazyass

Is titanium faster than steel, and is aluminum faster than ti? Or do I have is backwards? What about bamboo, scandium, magnesium and thermoplastic? Are any of those faster than carbon? Someone needs to come up with a hierarchy from slowest to fastest, testing all of them using a Garmin.