Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Is carbon fiber a problem at the TdF?

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Is carbon fiber a problem at the TdF?

Old 07-28-14, 06:53 AM
  #51  
sced
South Carolina Ed
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Greer, SC
Posts: 3,475

Bikes: Family pool bikes - 73 Holdsworth Super Mistral, 79(?) Macario, 86 Bianchi Brava, 93 Viner Nemo, 07 Bottecchia Euro Team, 07 Windsor Fens, 07 Tommasso Mistral

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Trsnrtr View Post
Having owned ~20 steel bikes and ~10 aluminum over the last 35 years, my last two have been carbon and I don't wish to go back to anything else. Even the couple custom steel frames don't compare to the ride of my carbon frames. YMMV
I have seen others say they've gone the other way. What do you think is going on?
sced is offline  
Old 07-28-14, 07:11 AM
  #52  
Jseis 
Other Worldly Member
 
Jseis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: SW Washington state on the ocean!
Posts: 1,537

Bikes: 1973 Motobecane Grand Jubilee, 1981 Centurion Super LeMans, 2010 Gary Fisher Wahoo, 2003 Colnago Dream Lux, 2014 Giant Defy 1, 2015 Framed Bikes Minnesota 3.0, several older family Treks

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Can't think of few things more violent than clubbing a stationary object (say a golf ball or the ground...oops) at 100-125 mph. The tech of CF still evolving. Gas pipe went through evolution after evolution as did all other metals. The dirty little secret is they are racing. The horror the horror.
__________________
Make Amerika Grate Cheese Again
Jseis is offline  
Old 07-28-14, 07:27 AM
  #53  
MRT2
Senior Member
 
MRT2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 5,866

Bikes: 2012 Salsa Casseroll, 2009 Kona Blast, 1997 Bianchi Advantage, 1994 Trek 930.

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 829 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
I could imagine steel or aluminum only races, though I suppose one could ask why? Think of it this way. Imagine how the game would change if major league baseball allowed for high tech balls, or bats. Imagine how tennis, or golf would change if they went back to old school racquets and clubs.

Last edited by MRT2; 07-28-14 at 07:31 AM.
MRT2 is offline  
Old 07-28-14, 07:30 AM
  #54  
himespau 
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 10,986
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1433 Post(s)
Liked 36 Times in 26 Posts
For a USA Today piece for a general audience that had never heard of carbon fiber before, I suppose that would have been a fine article. Seemed a bit more sensationalistic and light on content that I expect from NYT, but I haven't read it in probably 10-15 years, so the level of content may have gone down a lot.
himespau is offline  
Old 07-28-14, 07:31 AM
  #55  
himespau 
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 10,986
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1433 Post(s)
Liked 36 Times in 26 Posts
Originally Posted by MRT2 View Post
I could imagine steel or aluminum only races, though I suppose one could ask why? Think of it this way. Imagine how the game would change if major league baseball allowed for high tech balls, or bats.
There are such races. Often they require downtube shifters, clip in pedals, lugs, and old leather helmets too.
himespau is offline  
Old 07-28-14, 07:32 AM
  #56  
rpenmanparker 
Senior Member
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,467

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6387 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by sced View Post
So steel and aluminum don't deform elastically, only plastically?
No, of course not. All materials have a range of deformation that is elastic. Not all the elastic strain ranges are the same size, i.e. cover the same range of stresses, however.
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline  
Old 07-28-14, 07:34 AM
  #57  
Jseis 
Other Worldly Member
 
Jseis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: SW Washington state on the ocean!
Posts: 1,537

Bikes: 1973 Motobecane Grand Jubilee, 1981 Centurion Super LeMans, 2010 Gary Fisher Wahoo, 2003 Colnago Dream Lux, 2014 Giant Defy 1, 2015 Framed Bikes Minnesota 3.0, several older family Treks

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by himespau View Post
There are such races. Often they require downtube shifters, clip in pedals, lugs, and old leather helmets too.
Yes, and you most smoke no filter cigarettes, eat cheese, drink red wine, ride on gravel, and take speed.
__________________
Make Amerika Grate Cheese Again
Jseis is offline  
Old 07-28-14, 08:08 AM
  #58  
Lazyass
Senior Member
 
Lazyass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 8,171

Bikes: Vintage steel, aluminum, modern carbon disc, single speed, MTB's, the works

Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1912 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Everyone calm down, group hug. Now this is my kind of race bike

Madison-Genesis made their international debut at Challenge Majorca this week and the team’s Genesis Volare 953 attracted plenty of attention in the professional peloton.
Why? It’s made from steel – which makes it unique in an age where carbon fibre machines are ubiquitous at the highest level of the sport.

The frame, unveiled at the London Bike Show, is designed by UK-based Genesis and made from Reynolds 953 stainless steel tubing. Reynolds’ top-of-the-range tubing is notoriously difficult to work with but Genesis chief Dom Thomas has designed a frame which he says is fit for racing at the highest level.
And early-season results are testament to that, with Ian Bibby winning the indoor London Nocturne on the team’s debut in January, before registering a fine top ten finish on Challenge Majorca’s mountain stage.
We checked in with the team in Majorca and took the opportunity to take a closer look at Dean Downing’s machine.

Pro bike: Dean Downing's Genesis Volare

Lazyass is offline  
Old 07-28-14, 08:16 AM
  #59  
Campag4life
Voice of the Industry
 
Campag4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 12,572
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1185 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by himespau View Post
For a USA Today piece for a general audience that had never heard of carbon fiber before, I suppose that would have been a fine article. Seemed a bit more sensationalistic and light on content that I expect from NYT, but I haven't read it in probably 10-15 years, so the level of content may have gone down a lot.
Let's be clear. The article is irresponsible. It is erroneous and beyond sensational.
The only thing as bad are the responses here. Testimony to just how ignorant even bike enthusiasts are..was reaction to Contador's crash. Many still believe his bike broke and why he crashed. It was his fault he crashed and he broke and not the bike in spite of a violent wreck at 70 kph.
You just can't make up how ignorant people are about carbon fiber as much as they try.
Campag4life is offline  
Old 07-28-14, 08:51 AM
  #60  
Lazyass
Senior Member
 
Lazyass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 8,171

Bikes: Vintage steel, aluminum, modern carbon disc, single speed, MTB's, the works

Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1912 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
Let's be clear. The article is irresponsible. It is erroneous and beyond sensational.
So the only explanation is that Mark Greve is lying. He totally made everything up concerning his discussions with professional cyclists, there is no other answer. Listen, carbon bikes are pretty amazing but there is nothing you can say or claim that will convince some of us that carbon is as durable as the other materials or will make 99.999% of cyclists faster. I don't care if someone claims they broke 15 steel frames racing in the 80's but have had the same carbon bike since '95. I don't care if someone claims that a carbon frame alone dropped 30 minutes off a 100 mile time (someone actually said that). This is the internet, everyone is entitled to their own opinion so it's almost sad to see how defensive some of you people get. Just relax and enjoy your bike and let the heads deflate a little. In the meantime, check out James McCallum's steel Super Acciaio

Rapha-Condor-JLT: steel and carbon racing bikes gallery | Cyclingnews.com
Lazyass is offline  
Old 07-28-14, 09:02 AM
  #61  
MikeyBoyAz
Middle-Aged Member
 
MikeyBoyAz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 2,276

Bikes: Bianchi Infinito CV 2014, TREK HIFI 2011, Argon18 E-116 2013

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Everyone calm down, group hug. Now this is my kind of race bike

Madison-Genesis made their international debut at Challenge Majorca this week and the team’s Genesis Volare 953 attracted plenty of attention in the professional peloton.
Why? It’s made from steel – which makes it unique in an age where carbon fibre machines are ubiquitous at the highest level of the sport.

The frame, unveiled at the London Bike Show, is designed by UK-based Genesis and made from Reynolds 953 stainless steel tubing. Reynolds’ top-of-the-range tubing is notoriously difficult to work with but Genesis chief Dom Thomas has designed a frame which he says is fit for racing at the highest level.
And early-season results are testament to that, with Ian Bibby winning the indoor London Nocturne on the team’s debut in January, before registering a fine top ten finish on Challenge Majorca’s mountain stage.
We checked in with the team in Majorca and took the opportunity to take a closer look at Dean Downing’s machine.

Pro bike: Dean Downing's Genesis Volare

I've been oogling those 853 bikes [not the frame above] for a few months now planning my next build. Purdy to say the least.

As far as the sub topic of the "PROs" choosing their bikes, I think all to often we get ourselves so caught up in freedom of choice we forget that they possibly don't care. They are given a bike and then fitted to the bike, they ride it and are satisfied. Considering we all claim it's "About the Motor," and NOT about the bike...

Components have me though. I have seen many times riders wearing shoe covers because their fav shoe is not sponsored, same with saddles.
MikeyBoyAz is offline  
Old 07-28-14, 09:05 AM
  #62  
gsa103
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,149

Bikes: Bianchi Infinito (Celeste, of course)

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 630 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
IF your job is to ride what the sponsor promotes by paying you to ride it, you Do.

Overnight a Prize jersey award, gets a new bike painted in that color ..

I doubt any of them are on the same Bike today, on the last day as they were on when they came into Harrogate on day 1.
Nibali rode the same bike every day except the last day, when Specialized brought out a yellow TdF victory paint job.
gsa103 is offline  
Old 07-28-14, 09:23 AM
  #63  
himespau 
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 10,986
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1433 Post(s)
Liked 36 Times in 26 Posts
Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Everyone calm down, group hug. Now this is my kind of race bike

Madison-Genesis made their international debut at Challenge Majorca this week and the team’s Genesis Volare 953 attracted plenty of attention in the professional peloton.
Why? It’s made from steel – which makes it unique in an age where carbon fibre machines are ubiquitous at the highest level of the sport.

The frame, unveiled at the London Bike Show, is designed by UK-based Genesis and made from Reynolds 953 stainless steel tubing. Reynolds’ top-of-the-range tubing is notoriously difficult to work with but Genesis chief Dom Thomas has designed a frame which he says is fit for racing at the highest level.
And early-season results are testament to that, with Ian Bibby winning the indoor London Nocturne on the team’s debut in January, before registering a fine top ten finish on Challenge Majorca’s mountain stage.
We checked in with the team in Majorca and took the opportunity to take a closer look at Dean Downing’s machine.

Pro bike: Dean Downing's Genesis Volare

Interesting, but what's the point of using 953 if you're going to paint it? If I had a stainless bike, I'd let that sucker shine. Sure you want decals to advertise yourself, but there's got to be a way to do that without hiding the 953 under an ugly coat of paint. Unless someone has shown some sort of evidence that paint is more aerodynamically slippery than unpainted. Aw heck, screw it, even then, you gotta go with the shiny.
himespau is offline  
Old 07-28-14, 09:44 AM
  #64  
achoo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,700
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by MRT2 View Post
I could imagine steel or aluminum only races, though I suppose one could ask why? Think of it this way. Imagine how the game would change if major league baseball allowed for high tech balls, or bats. Imagine how tennis, or golf would change if they went back to old school racquets and clubs.
Off-topic, but MLB already does that:

Study claims imaging tests show larger rubber core - MLB - ESPN

And it's not like steroid use fueled the HR binge in baseball either. HR rates spiked in ONE YEAR - 1994, and have stayed constant ever since when measured against the number of balls put in play. What's happened to overall HR rates in baseball lately is that the strike zone has gotten much larger, resulting in more strikeouts and fewer balls in play:

Baseball Prospectus | Baseball ProGUESTus: The Living Strike Zone

The increase in the size of the strike zone corresponds to MLB using their PitchFX system to grade umpires and how they call balls and strikes. HRs haven't dropped lately because of the "crackdown" on PED use - once the batter gets his bat on the ball the ball goes just as far now as it did in 1998. The difference is that now the batters are getting their bats on balls less often because the strike zone is bigger.

And take MLB's anti-steroid rants with more than a grain of salt. These are the same guys who ran "Chicks dig the long ball" commercials during the 1990s, glorifying the very same players who today are vilified for documented or even merely alleged steroid use.

Just like the shallow "journalism" that fueled this thread, reporting on PED use in sports is pretty much nothing but sensationalist crap.
achoo is offline  
Old 07-28-14, 09:52 AM
  #65  
rpenmanparker 
Senior Member
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,467

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6387 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Listen, carbon bikes are pretty amazing but there is nothing you can say or claim that will convince some of us that carbon is as durable as the other materials or will make 99.999% of cyclists faster. I don't care if someone claims they broke 15 steel frames racing in the 80's but have had the same carbon bike since '95. I don't care if someone claims that a carbon frame alone dropped 30 minutes off a 100 mile time (someone actually said that). This is the internet, everyone is entitled to their own opinion so it's almost sad to see how defensive some of you people get. Just relax and enjoy your bike and let the heads deflate a little. In the meantime, check out James McCallum's steel Super Acciaio
You make some good points in the bolded text above. But really, why would not being as durable as steel or able to make almost every rider faster matter? The important things to the industry are that CF bikes are plenty durable (durable enough for their intended applications) and do contribute to the performance of many elite riders. That is all that matters to get them accepted by the essentially every pro team and rider. Sure there is pressure from sponsors for teams to use the "hawt" latest products. But I have no doubt that a top pro team that wanted to ride on Specialized aluminum could get sponsorship just as easily one that is happy with CF.

Too many of us amateur enthusiasts, poseurs, dilettantes, etc. are happily riding CF for it to be a scam. And so many of us are fondly riding other materials (Ti, steel, and aluminum in my case) as well that there is plenty of real world cross-material comparison going on. And the verdict is very close to consensus. For fast, safe riding when there is money on the line, CF is the material of choice.

You bemoan the defensiveness of CF proponents, but say nothing about the defensiveness of advocates of the other materials which is clearly just as common. The problem doesn't come from someone saying that any particular material is good, but from folks saying that only one material is worthy to be ridden, and the rest is crap. Truth is that for the amateur enthusiast speed and durability are just two of many characteristics that ought to be considered. We are so fortunate that we can choose among a group of really fine frame materials according to our own preferences. We have an abundance of riches in frame material offerings, but folks just have to have their choices legitimized by popular opinion. Too bad.

As for the subject NYT article, it is simply irresponsible. The author says excellent things about carbon bikes but then reverses all that with innuendo. What for if not sensationalism?
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
No matter where I go, here I am...

Last edited by rpenmanparker; 07-28-14 at 09:59 AM.
rpenmanparker is offline  
Old 07-28-14, 09:58 AM
  #66  
scplus5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Eastern nc
Posts: 306

Bikes: 2009 caad 9

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Wouldn't it all boil down to carbon being faster? These guys and their sponsors are there to win, regardless of what bike they ride. If a pro rider was faster on an aluminum or steel bike than a CF bike, the bike company would certainly much rather them ride the aluminum in order to give themselves a better chance to have their bike on the podium. However, if they are all choosing CF, what does that tell you? Unless you would believe that a company would rather put these guys out there on a bike that reduces their chances of winning...
scplus5 is offline  
Old 07-28-14, 10:05 AM
  #67  
pdedes
ka maté ka maté ka ora
 
pdedes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: wessex
Posts: 4,423

Bikes: breezer venturi - red novo bosberg - red, pedal force cg1 - red, neuvation f-100 - da, devinci phantom - xt, miele piste - miche/campy, bianchi reparto corse sbx, concorde squadra tsx - da, miele team issue sl - ultegra

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Look. The stages are shorter and more combative. The riders are fitter. A much larger percentage of them are finishing the race. They're still featuring narrow roads and courses with an ever increasing amount of traffic furniture. These are your crashmakers. The bikes aren't.
pdedes is offline  
Old 07-28-14, 10:06 AM
  #68  
Campag4life
Voice of the Industry
 
Campag4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 12,572
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1185 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
You do recognize how silly it is to use that bike as an example for discussion here right?
I am curious if anybody else sees the irony?

Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Everyone calm down, group hug. Now this is my kind of race bike

Madison-Genesis made their international debut at Challenge Majorca this week and the team’s Genesis Volare 953 attracted plenty of attention in the professional peloton.
Why? It’s made from steel – which makes it unique in an age where carbon fibre machines are ubiquitous at the highest level of the sport.

The frame, unveiled at the London Bike Show, is designed by UK-based Genesis and made from Reynolds 953 stainless steel tubing. Reynolds’ top-of-the-range tubing is notoriously difficult to work with but Genesis chief Dom Thomas has designed a frame which he says is fit for racing at the highest level.
And early-season results are testament to that, with Ian Bibby winning the indoor London Nocturne on the team’s debut in January, before registering a fine top ten finish on Challenge Majorca’s mountain stage.
We checked in with the team in Majorca and took the opportunity to take a closer look at Dean Downing’s machine.

Pro bike: Dean Downing's Genesis Volare

Campag4life is offline  
Old 07-28-14, 10:35 AM
  #69  
BillyD
Administrator
 
BillyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 25,573

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene '04; Bridgestone RB-1 '92

Mentioned: 270 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6241 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 65 Posts
So many guys here are in deep denial . . . . or you have reading comprehension problems.

The article could not have been written any more objectively or fairly. CF achieves lightness at the cost of durability. NO material is perfect. Deal with it.
__________________
See, this is why we can't have nice things. - - smarkinson
Where else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdon
BillyD is offline  
Old 07-28-14, 10:43 AM
  #70  
Bacciagalupe
Professional Fuss-Budget
 
Bacciagalupe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,469
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
when Boonen's team was picked up by Specialized, he spent a month or so riding aluminum. Why, you may ask?
Because he is ridiculously tall, needed a custom geometry, and they made a bunch of prototypes. Rather than knock out a half-dozen molds at $25,000 a pop, they knocked out a bunch of custom aluminum frames for a fraction of the price. (The Boonen Prototype | RKP)

It had absolutely nothing to do with Boonen's power output, nor are CF frames "flexy." Most high-end CF bikes are as stiff, or in several cases stiffer, than aluminum.

Cavendish, for example, has spent many years using CF frames (Scott Addict, Spec Tarmac & Venge, Pinarello) without using an aluminum bike. Same for Kittel, Greipel, Renshaw etc etc
Bacciagalupe is offline  
Old 07-28-14, 11:01 AM
  #71  
kc0bbq
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,114

Bikes: 2006 Raleigh Cadent 2.0, 2016 Trek Emonda ALR 6, 2015 Propel Advanced SL 2, 2000 K2 Zed SE

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
You do recognize how silly it is to use that bike as an example for discussion here right?
I am curious if anybody else sees the irony?
Is it the CF wheels? Or the CF fork?

The fact that the tubing tries to match the shapes of a CF frame?

Or is there different irony at work?
kc0bbq is offline  
Old 07-28-14, 11:30 AM
  #72  
BikeWise1
30 YR Wrench
 
BikeWise1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Oxford, OH
Posts: 2,007

Bikes: Waterford R-33, Madone 6.5, Trek 520

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
Are you aware that historically riders have done exactly what you are claiming is not possible: ridden a different manufacturers frame and had it painted sponsors colors.
Back in the days of steel, when all bikes looked virtually identical save for the paint from 20 feet away, sure.

Now, no.
BikeWise1 is offline  
Old 07-28-14, 11:34 AM
  #73  
joejack951
Senior Member
 
joejack951's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 11,874

Bikes: 2016 Hong Fu FM-079-F, 1984 Trek 660, 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1, 2016 Islabikes Beinn 20 (son's)

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1138 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
No, of course not. All materials have a range of deformation that is elastic. Not all the elastic strain ranges are the same size, i.e. cover the same range of stresses, however.
While what you have stated is true, what roadwarrior claimed is not.

Originally Posted by roadwarrior
The difference between a metal frame (aluminum or steel) and carbon...metal fatigues....think of bending a paper clip back and forth until it breaks. Carbon comes back to its original shape when flexed, metal does not.
Metal does fatigue, but when discussing bike frames and their design, the paper clip analogy is wrong. Metal will fatigue and eventually fail even when the stresses are kept well below the yield stress of the material. The further below that yield stress you stay, the more cycles the material can withstand, approaching infinite. Even a very highly stressed (relative to its max yield stress) piece of metal will return to its original shape so long as it has not been pushed past the point of plastic deformation.

Further, metal has a far wider range of stresses between yield and ultimate (the point where the metal deforms and doesn't return to its original shape and the point where it fractures), something that carbon fiber cannot match. I'll still take carbon fiber for my bike frames.
joejack951 is offline  
Old 07-28-14, 11:45 AM
  #74  
gsa103
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,149

Bikes: Bianchi Infinito (Celeste, of course)

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 630 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Santa Cruz CF mountain bikes are significantly stronger than their Al counter-parts. Pinkbike Visits The Santa Cruz Test Lab Video - YouTube

Carbon fiber and steel/Al fail differently. A rider might be able to complete a stage with a slightly bent frame/fork, its still a trashed frame.

The part I found really amusing is that the vast majority of broken carbon actually occurred in transit. Taking carbon shards out of a wheel bag is not a racing failure. Contador's broken frame....car accident. If it were really such a hazard why aren't riders being impaled by carbon shards? It this years TdF the riders were much more broken than the bikes. If I need an ambulance, I could care less about the condition of the bike.
gsa103 is offline  
Old 07-28-14, 12:00 PM
  #75  
rpenmanparker 
Senior Member
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,467

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6387 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by gsa103 View Post
Santa Cruz CF mountain bikes are significantly stronger than their Al counter-parts. Pinkbike Visits The Santa Cruz Test Lab Video - YouTube

Carbon fiber and steel/Al fail differently. A rider might be able to complete a stage with a slightly bent frame/fork, its still a trashed frame.

The part I found really amusing is that the vast majority of broken carbon actually occurred in transit. Taking carbon shards out of a wheel bag is not a racing failure. Contador's broken frame....car accident. If it were really such a hazard why aren't riders being impaled by carbon shards? It this years TdF the riders were much more broken than the bikes. If I need an ambulance, I could care less about the condition of the bike.
Very interesting test. For reproducibility determination/statistical validity one would want to see at least five examples of each material in the crush test. Also the impact test with a falling weight usually requires 30 specimens and a run plan/calculation scheme called the Bruceton Staircase. That would get really pricey. But what the hell. For a quick and dirty, this was pretty well done and quite convincing. Of course, it is probably important to point out that the aluminum failure was ductile while the CF failure was brittle, but the extra strength of the CF was very impressive none the less.
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.