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Is carbon fiber a problem at the TdF?

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Is carbon fiber a problem at the TdF?

Old 07-27-14, 11:06 AM
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bikemig 
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Is carbon fiber a problem at the TdF?

So I'm pretty much neutral on the whole carbon fiber/aluminum/steel thing. They each have pros and cons and it is clear for what I take to be obvious reasons that carbon fiber rules the roost at the top end.

Still this is a neat article from the NYT suggesting that carbon fiber is a problematic material in the pro peloton compared to steel.

One big question that this article leaves me with is whether there might be issues with carbon fiber for recreational and non-professional uses given the economic pressures to make stuff light and relatively inexpensive. This is not an assertion on my part but it is a lingering question after reading the article.

Enjoy:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/sp...pgtype=article
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Old 07-27-14, 11:13 AM
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Rozap

Already posted
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Old 07-27-14, 11:51 AM
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And no if it wasn't the best material they would not ALL be using it.
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Old 07-27-14, 12:00 PM
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Can anyone envision a return to aluminum or steel?


S
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Old 07-27-14, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by spdracr39 View Post
And no if it wasn't the best material they would not ALL be using it.
"They" don't choose.
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Old 07-27-14, 12:35 PM
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I'm a bit surprised that the article didn't conclude with, "also, the sky is blue."
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Old 07-27-14, 12:38 PM
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Carbon has too many advantages for the industry to "return to metal". There will likely always be metal bikes as they are simple to build, rugged, relatively cheap and make good bike frames. But cyclists as a rule demand higher performance, better road feel and lighter weight. Frankly, prices are not much different than metal for the most part - and factories can tool up and produce the carbon bikes with a reasonable degree of efficiency. Carbon is an anisotropic, not isotropic. Carbon allows fiber orientation to obtain the desired stiffness where required, and compliance where desired. Metal doesn't offer this variability. Carbon failure can involve "fracturing" or as some like to say, "exploding". Metal typically bends although it can break at times. I do not think any study has ever indicated the chance of injury is greater on carbon than on steel during a crash. It takes energy to fracture the tube and it takes energy to bend the tube. So both absorb energy thus leaving less to inflict upon the rider. Arbitrary component failure is more of a concern but with time, the reliability and robustness of carbon is proving itself to as good as any other material.
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Old 07-27-14, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Slackerprince View Post
Can anyone envision a return to aluminum or steel?


S
Yup- I have both, My speeds are the same on either, I prefer the steel. Spend 50 % of time on the steel, maybe more, just feels better.
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Old 07-27-14, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Burnette View Post
Already posted
Yeah if I had seen it earlier, I wouldn't have posted this.
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Old 07-27-14, 12:49 PM
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And no if it wasn't the best material they would not ALL be using it.
IF your job is to ride what the sponsor promotes by paying you to ride it, you Do.

Overnight a Prize jersey award, gets a new bike painted in that color ..

I doubt any of them are on the same Bike today, on the last day as they were on when they came into Harrogate on day 1.


its only the consumer that has just 1 bike .. you are why they get the bikes .. Retail sales .
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Old 07-27-14, 02:32 PM
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I can promise you that if they were more likely to win on an aluminum or steel frame that is what the sponsors would build. Winning sells bikes not the material they are made from. I am not by any means saying carbon is the best for how you and I ride but for racing purposes it apparently is or they would be using something else.
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Old 07-27-14, 02:43 PM
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Does the guy that wrote the article even ride a bike?

Maybe they should stop making mountain bikes out of carbon...and go back to steel. A 50lb DH bike would be awesome...not...
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Old 07-27-14, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
"They" don't choose.
That's BS. A team leader can ride whatever he asserts he wishes. Less so for the domestiques perhaps. Nobody is going to tell Nibali next year what material to ride.
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Old 07-27-14, 02:50 PM
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The only way carbon fiber is a problem at the TdF is if you don't have it.
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Old 07-27-14, 02:53 PM
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Specialized is using Roubaix as the base for its new all-arounder Diverge country/adventure bike line.

Carbon fiber is light, durable and responsive. It works on the road and off-road as well.

It used to be a niche material but as prices come down, it will be increasingly mainstream and for good reason.
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Old 07-27-14, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
So I'm pretty much neutral on the whole carbon fiber/aluminum/steel thing. They each have pros and cons and it is clear for what I take to be obvious reasons that carbon fiber rules the roost at the top end.

Still this is a neat article from the NYT suggesting that carbon fiber is a problematic material in the pro peloton compared to steel.

One big question that this article leaves me with is whether there might be issues with carbon fiber for recreational and non-professional uses given the economic pressures to make stuff light and relatively inexpensive. This is not an assertion on my part but it is a lingering question after reading the article.

Enjoy:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/sp...pgtype=article
As much as I like the NY Times, that is the stupidest article ever. CF shatters when stressed, this is well known. OTOH, it is one of the strongest materials that we know now especially given its lightweight. The cyclists are falling harder because they are going faster and taking more risks. No different from racing cars (carbon fiber tubs) or motorcycles.
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Old 07-27-14, 03:05 PM
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If it was a serious safety problem, bike manufacturers wouldn't be building with CF.

Nothing is inherently wrong with the material.
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Old 07-27-14, 03:06 PM
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I found this article to be deceptive and disingenuous. The author is trying to associate the manner in which carbon fails with increasing frequency and severity of accidents in pro racing. And then to somehow extend this to an increased risk to everyday riders. I don't think there is a shred of data to back this up. Carbon bikes aren't the cause of crashing nor do they increase the consequences. They may not survive crashes as well and may have to replaced more often after a crash, but this is an economic and logistics issue, not a safety issue.

- Mark
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Old 07-27-14, 03:28 PM
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Reality

What palnet do you guys live on?
A "team leader" doesn't get to pick squat on the bike besides a saddle and maybe which of the sponsor's frame he wants.
There are pics online where riders will black out a saddle if it's different from their sponsors saddle.
But guys, use your common sense and your computer, Nibali, Conty, Froome are all inder contracts, they do what they are told, they can't pick what material the frames are made out of for crying out freakin loud.
I bet you think NASCAR teams still buy a car at the local dealership and turn it into a race car. Shocker guys, they don't.
Bike racing is business, they tie in with sponsors for equipment, they can pick which frame from the sponsor that's within the parameters of the contract.
Team leaders don't have near the authority you guys are givng them. They are hired guns and will spout how much they love whatever bike they are riding that year, plain and simple. Again, they do what they are told to do, most are happy to even get a contract, look how many are on the outside looking in this year.
All the major bike sponsors make money with carbon, it has proven itself as a viable medium.
Until you can make a steel or titanium frame FOR LESS MONEY than you can a carbon frame, the game ain't gonna change.
Bicycle racing is a freakin business, so many seem to forget this.
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Old 07-27-14, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Slackerprince View Post
Can anyone envision a return to aluminum or steel?


S
Nope. The notion that they would all choose to be riding steel bikes if only they weren't compelled by evil sponsors to ride crap carbon bikes is fanciful at best. Yes, the sponsors have an interest in selling product (d'uh). But they also have an interest in seeing their teams succeed. Providing them with the best equipment to ensure that goal is kind of sort of a little bit important.
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Old 07-27-14, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Burnette View Post
What palnet do you guys live on?
A "team leader" doesn't get to pick squat on the bike besides a saddle and maybe which of the sponsor's frame he wants.
There are pics online where riders will black out a saddle if it's different from their sponsors saddle.
But guys, use your common sense and your computer, Nibali, Conty, Froome are all inder contracts, they do what they are told, they can't pick what material the frames are made out of for crying out freakin loud.
I bet you think NASCAR teams still buy a car at the local dealership and turn it into a race car. Shocker guys, they don't.
Bike racing is business, they tie in with sponsors for equipment, they can pick which frame from the sponsor that's within the parameters of the contract.
Team leaders don't have near the authority you guys are givng them. They are hired guns and will spout how much they love whatever bike they are riding that year, plain and simple. Again, they do what they are told to do, most are happy to even get a contract, look how many are on the outside looking in this year.
All the major bike sponsors make money with carbon, it has proven itself as a viable medium.
Until you can make a steel or titanium frame FOR LESS MONEY than you can a carbon frame, the game ain't gonna change.
Bicycle racing is a freakin business, so many seem to forget this.
You know all this for a fact? Or do you just think it has to be so? Brand is of course according to who is the sponsor, but beyond that riders with stroke get their way. If a star wants aluminum, that's what he gets. If he needs a custom frame to meet his ride quality preferences, that's what he gets. The uniformity you see is partly due to not everyone having stroke, partly due to the wide range of bike types each manufacturer makes, partly due to the manufacturer's skill with a paint sprayer,
and decals, and partly due to CF's inherent superiority. I guarantee you that no one told him, who's name shall never again be mentioned, what to ride.
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Old 07-27-14, 04:20 PM
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Omg

Riders are under contract, they ride what they are all told what to ride.
Now, do they get custom carbon layups and custom geometry if they wish, yes they do, that is not and never was a secret. They can even choose a different model within the sponsors inventory if they so choose if thier contract allows it. Like Cancellara choosing to ride a Trek Domane in the tour, he could do that, he couldn't demand riding a Trek that wasn't within Trek's desired marketing plan.
If it was a Spesh rider, he couldn't say I'm going to ride an Allez and you can all suck it, no he cannot do that.
To go on about that, I just can't, either that is naivete or a need to argue and I can't entertain either.
If some want to belive riders have that much sway, good onya in that fairy land, reality is were I live.
Carbon fiber wasn't at fault at the tour, the weather and handling skills of the riders themselves were the bigger issue.
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Old 07-27-14, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Burnette View Post
Riders are under contract, they ride what they are all told what to ride.
Now, do they get custom carbon layups and custom geometry if they wish, yes they do, that is not and never was a secret. They can even choose a different model within the sponsors inventory if they so choose if thier contract allows it. Like Cancellara choosing to ride a Trek Domane in the tour, he could do that, he couldn't demand riding a Trek that wasn't within Trek's desired marketing plan.
If it was a Spesh rider, he couldn't say I'm going to ride an Allez and you can all suck it, no he cannot do that.
To go on about that, I just can't, either that is naivete or a need to argue and I can't entertain either.
If some want to belive riders have that much sway, good onya in that fairy land, reality is were I live.
Carbon fiber wasn't at fault at the tour, the weather and handling skills of the riders themselves were the bigger issue.
No problem, I'm open to learning something, just tell me how you know? Also you talk about contracts as if they are dictated by only one party to them. Anyone in business can tell you this is not so. Both parties to a contract have input to the provisions. What do you think an athlete has an agent for?
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Old 07-27-14, 04:45 PM
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Just Can't Entertain That

So you wish to argue.
Good luck with that.
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Old 07-27-14, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Burnette View Post
Riders are under contract, they ride what they are all told what to ride.
Now, do they get custom carbon layups and custom geometry if they wish, yes they do, that is not and never was a secret. They can even choose a different model within the sponsors inventory if they so choose if thier contract allows it. Like Cancellara choosing to ride a Trek Domane in the tour, he could do that, he couldn't demand riding a Trek that wasn't within Trek's desired marketing plan.
If it was a Spesh rider, he couldn't say I'm going to ride an Allez and you can all suck it, no he cannot do that.
To go on about that, I just can't, either that is naivete or a need to argue and I can't entertain either.
If some want to belive riders have that much sway, good onya in that fairy land, reality is were I live.
Carbon fiber wasn't at fault at the tour, the weather and handling skills of the riders themselves were the bigger issue.
Are you aware that historically riders have done exactly what you are claiming is not possible: ridden a different manufacturers frame and had it painted sponsors colors.
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