prathmann

And the nice thing about bicycling is that you can buy a bicycle that will give you over 90% of the performance of that $12K bike for only $1K (largely since performance is mainly determined by the engine which isn't included in the price).

knobster

I think this is a silly discussion really. Things cost what they cost. Nobody has to buy the high dollar gear. Nobody is getting ripped off. I could buy a $10k bike and $350 dollar bibs, but I choose not to because I don't want or need it. I pay $35 for shorts and maybe $30 for a jersey. I think I spent maybe $800 for my bike and built it up exactly how I needed. Even if it was all made in the same factory in China and the price is solely for the name, it's the stupid consumer that's the blame. Not the company marketing it. People need to take responsibility for themselves and not put the blame on everyone else.

gregf83 

The founder of any successful company in any business area ought to be able to afford a Porsche. Not really germane to the discussion of whether the bike business has excessive margins.

That's the great thing about a free market. If someone thinks it's easy to make money doing something they're welcome to try and find out how little they actually know about running a profitable business.

dave42

High end 15 speed would have been (no later than) late 1980's, more likely 70's and before. I just sold a 5 speed dura ace freewheel, actually. High end 16 speed was, what early 90's?

So, there are no eight thousand dollar 15 or 16 speed bikes.

raisinberry777

Pretty sure he means pounds.

HiFiGuy1

If you must use a motorcycle analogy, then think of a "superbike" bicycle as being more like maybe an MV Agusta MV1000F4s. The Honda in the picture above is like an $800-1000 Scott, in that it's a nice bike with decent style and more than adequate performance, but certainly not much more than basic transportation. That's all most people ever really NEED, but many people want the pride of ownership that comes with higher quality build and components. Do you need a set of $5000 Ohlins USD forks with Ti-N coating on the sliders to get to the grocery store or the local coffee shop on the weekends? No, but it sure does improve the ride and the looks you get from other bikers who know their gear. In the same way, does anyone NEED a Formigli One with full Campy E-shifting and $4000 wheels? No, but I understand the ride is like a magic carpet combined with F1 handling.

dave42

Awesome. That was my stupid remark for the day, then. It HAS been a long day...

2702

Edit- at this point I dont think anyone is making sense comparing a MC to a bicycle come to think of it. At the end of the day if I found 12k sitting on my couch I much rather spend it on a Ninja 636 sportbike than a S Works bike cause 99 out of 100 people are going to call me a nutcase for spending 12k on a bicycle.

No offense to the millionaires here who bought a 12k bike.

WalksOn2Wheels

I'm just gonna leave this here.....

Wooden Tiger

When it comes to clothing, my experiences are that I've gotten what I've paid for.

- The clothes last longer (The materials are more durable)

- The clothes fit me better

- The clothes are more comfortable (Especially when it comes to cheap padded shorts vs. more expensive ones)

As for "Chinese carbon" vs. "Taiwanese carbon," I won't buy a thing with a "Made in China" name on it, but that's me. That doesn't mean it's any better or any worse, but I'm not buying it; that's my personal decision.

Nobody's forcing me to go out and buy a $75 pair of "century shorts," I could just as easily go out and buy a $30 liner and wear basketball shorts over it.

Everybody's making money somewhere. If you have a problem spending high prices on a particular product, don't buy it, it's as simple as that.

Bob Dopolina 

I've seen this before. His base prices are wildly over inflated.

Almost all of the claims made are anecdotal and just more steel is real ramblings.

Thanks for the laugh, though.

kelsodeez

you want to talk about a ripoff? i just paid $25 for two of these little plastic pieces that broke off on my shifters. absolute robbery.

Silvercivic27

Well, I guess if things were so successful up there, he wouldn't have needed to sell the business to Pon. Still have the Porsches though!

Bob Dopolina 

Huh? Are you suggesting that the company wasn't successful but the robber baron got rich anyways? Im mean seriously, this isn't Finance.

BTW, it wasn't a 'sell the business so I can cash out my bazzilion dollars' scenario". It was about the ending of a working relationship.

And, so TFW if someone who builds and runs a successful company makes enough money to buy and race some cars. Do you know for a fact that ALL that money came from the bike business? Where did the money come from to start that business in the first place? Do you have any insight into the personal finances of ANYONE working in the industry outside of your local wrench? Anyone?

mrodgers

It certainly isn't just sports. It's everything manufactured. I manufacture automotive parts that the manufacturers purchase for $8-12. Wreck your car and price a replacement part, you're looking at $200-300 for the part from the OEM manufacturer. Just a slight markup, and that's with no middleman. Just the manufacturer and the seller.

gregf83 

Make up your mind. Either they were charging excessive prices and everyone had an easy time getting rich or they weren't charging enough to be profitable. Which is it? You haven't a clue...

Kopsis

I was curious about this myself, so rather than write a complainypants post to BF, I actually ordered a $15 Castelli knock-off jersey from a Chinese Ali-Express vendor to see how it compared to the real thing. Yes, I realize counterfeiters are the devil, etc., etc. and I am not condoning their behavior -- this was about research.

Note that the real jersey is made in Morocco, not China (at least according to the label). What I found was that the manufacturing quality on the knock-off was surprisingly good -- certainly no worse than the real thing. The fit was good, but not great, with the knock-off a little snug in the shoulders, but not so much as to be uncomfortable. The big difference was the fabric. The genuine article uses a very complex three-dimensional weave that results in fantastic wicking performance. The knock-off? A much simpler fabric that doesn't perform nearly as well.

So is the advanced fabric worth the additional $35 I paid (on clearance) for the genuine article? That's a value judgement only the buyer can make. But the idea that you're getting exactly the same thing from the name brands with just a huge markup is definitely incorrect.

Another data point -- I got a pair of shorts with the same Ali-Express order and they were embarrassingly bad. The chamois fits poorly, bunches up, and half the stitching came loose after one ride. Essentially unusable for any serious riding. After repairing the stitching, they've been relegated to cyclocross practice duty. I think it's safe to say there is considerably more development investment in designing a good pair of cycling shorts, and that's reflected in the price.

macjager

must be tough to pedal...

Jseis 

Cycling is dirt cheap compared to oh; golf, boats, diving, classic cars, a weapons or music collection & some instruments (my S.0.'s baby grand...I could by 2-3 very sweet road bikes), overseas travel, recreational drugs..pick your poison.

wphamilton

Cycling is dirt cheap with a little effort. If a particular brand or certain "quality tier" is important to you then you pay for it. If on the other hand you don't care at all, you can find everything you need at almost discount store prices.

Pibber

Just stop riding.

rms13

I'm very happy with my $25 Castelli jersey from China but you aren't going to see me go diving with a cheap Chinese knock off regulator!

Sdjclevland

I should have worded my post better. I meant who manufactures every thing not who makes all the money. I ride dirt bikes and that's why I am surprised how much stuff costs. I get caught off guard when say I see a 200 dollar jersey which all it is is a light weight mesh **** with a zipper I find it hard to believe the fabric it's made out cost that much. Yes you do pay for quality some I know that. I just notice this sport is more expensive.

Really the the reason I made this thread is I train jiu jitsu also. Many people have no clue where the uniforms or gi comes from and they are expensive to buy, 100-250 or more dollars. I own 5 different gi or uniforms. What people don't know is 99 percent of these are made in Pakistan. Different brands even use the same factory or should I say room that has sewing machines. The cost to make one gi is 20-40 bucks. I can tell you right now there is hardly any difference between any of these uniforms. Some a little nicer than other but still all basically the same So it made me wonder if this applied to cycling

Unless people are lying to me then in terms of dirt bike parts the mark up is 40 percent. In terms of automobiles like some one mentioned I believe the cost to make a car like a Chevy cruize is 4 or 6 grand I forget. The big mark up is to cover people's pensions and benefits.

MRT2

In addition to cycling, I have over the years also spent money on a couple of other hobbies; namely watches and high end stereo equipment and for the most part, how much, or how little you want to spend is remarkably similar to cycling.

90/10 or 80/20 rule applies to all. In other words, you can get 80 to 90% of the performance for 10 to 20% of the price.
All 3 hobbies have their retro grouches. In watches, most afficionados prefer automatics, with many preferring classic and vintage. In audio, it is vinyl and tube amps. (the equivalent to the steel is real or C & V in cycling)
There are audiophile minimalists. (sort of like fixies and ss in cycling)
And finally, there are reverse snobs in all 3 hobbies who declare the price no object current products to be ripoffs.

Pibber

Wait, you don't think the same factory that makes the nice gear makes the crappy knockoff, also, do you? Most of these suppliers keep their fabric tech just as closely held as their frame tech, also knockoffs won't be even close in terms of quality. You're not paying for just wages and pensions, you're paying for R&D, the best equipment, shirts and shorts that don't slip or fray or chafe or itch, shoes that mold to your feet and deal with thousands of revolution a day (depending upon how often you ride) and deal with stress that the casual rider simply doesn't put on equipment. When moving into the world of high end/pro cycling the details become important, and getting even the small things right, consistently, is advantageous to a company, and beneficial to the purchaser. Getting the small things right is important, and sometimes that costs money.

I've been in two accidents while wearing my timbuk2 bag and it has come through with flying colors. I paid over $140 for a bag, and it's done everything it was touted as being able to do. It's waterproof, rugged, comfortable and convenient. Well worth the seemingly extravagant purchase of a knapsack....