thoughts on power (newbie)
#76
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#77
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What grade do you think is ideal for that?
I guess once I get out and buy a road bike I'll have to do an actual test but so far all I have is a 2x20 @ 304W avg...from a random gym trainer so god knows where that accuracy could be or what "power" is even being measured, and a 4.6M climb @ 12.8mph w/average grade of 3.9%...but on a MTB that weighs 35lbs.
I like the idea of training with a powermeter, especially since I'm a numbers geek...but those price tags are brutal. Even stages at 699-799 is asking a lot for where I am now TT
I guess once I get out and buy a road bike I'll have to do an actual test but so far all I have is a 2x20 @ 304W avg...from a random gym trainer so god knows where that accuracy could be or what "power" is even being measured, and a 4.6M climb @ 12.8mph w/average grade of 3.9%...but on a MTB that weighs 35lbs.
I like the idea of training with a powermeter, especially since I'm a numbers geek...but those price tags are brutal. Even stages at 699-799 is asking a lot for where I am now TT
Here's my weekly target segment Strava Segment | Athenian School (South Gate) to summit W/O the piddle paddle in the parking lot at the top!!!
Numbers https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5565/...877fd67d_o.png - the ones without lightning are strava estimated.
I would say strava is right on the spot - within +/- 1%..2% accuracy.
Keep in mind that Powertrap says it's accuracy is +/- 1.5%
This is of course very segment specific, the long and windy ones are probably perfect for that kind of FTP estimation.
Last edited by IronHorseRiderX; 08-11-14 at 10:06 PM.
#78
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It's even worse than that.
Per your second link 4 W/kg is about where an average _lean_ person can get realistically. Yes, 300 W at 160 lbs is 4 W/kg. But it does not mean that this guy can get to 300 W. That's because excess weight does not translate into extra wattage. The guy is 5'5", which means that his lean/skinny weight is about 130 lbs, and he can get to 130 * 0.454 * 4 = 236 W with training. For him 300 W is 5.1 W/kg.
Plus, the whole discussion is extremely vague, since he has no measuring equipment and his best estimate of his FTP is "120 to 170 W". That is about as precise as saying "I think I can bench press somewhere between 100 and 200 lbs".
Per your second link 4 W/kg is about where an average _lean_ person can get realistically. Yes, 300 W at 160 lbs is 4 W/kg. But it does not mean that this guy can get to 300 W. That's because excess weight does not translate into extra wattage. The guy is 5'5", which means that his lean/skinny weight is about 130 lbs, and he can get to 130 * 0.454 * 4 = 236 W with training. For him 300 W is 5.1 W/kg.
Plus, the whole discussion is extremely vague, since he has no measuring equipment and his best estimate of his FTP is "120 to 170 W". That is about as precise as saying "I think I can bench press somewhere between 100 and 200 lbs".
#79
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Damn, I wouldn't mind being able to climb 5% at 16.2 on 0W
Yea, from looking at numbers on climbs it seems that strava estimates are decent assuming weight of rider/bike is correct in calm conditions. Get some ridiculous numbers of flat ones, or less steep climbs where the wind blows.
Yea, from looking at numbers on climbs it seems that strava estimates are decent assuming weight of rider/bike is correct in calm conditions. Get some ridiculous numbers of flat ones, or less steep climbs where the wind blows.
#80
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I got mine (Powertrap G3 on Reynolds 46mm from thecyclinghouse.com @ $900 delivered) about two months ago (early June).
Here's my weekly target segment Strava Segment | Athenian School (South Gate) to summit W/O the piddle paddle in the parking lot at the top!!!
Numbers https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5565/...877fd67d_o.png - the ones without lightning are strava estimated.
I would say strava is right on the spot - within +/- 1%..2% accuracy.
Keep in mind that Powertrap says it's accuracy is +/- 1.5%
This is of course very segment specific, the long and windy ones are probably perfect for that kind of FTP estimation.
Here's my weekly target segment Strava Segment | Athenian School (South Gate) to summit W/O the piddle paddle in the parking lot at the top!!!
Numbers https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5565/...877fd67d_o.png - the ones without lightning are strava estimated.
I would say strava is right on the spot - within +/- 1%..2% accuracy.
Keep in mind that Powertrap says it's accuracy is +/- 1.5%
This is of course very segment specific, the long and windy ones are probably perfect for that kind of FTP estimation.
I'm pretty sure W/kg is based on your real weight, not your "lean" weight. All the cyclists I've known who've lost significant weight have not lost power. So they're producing 200W, and after dropping 20lbs, they're still making 200W, but the W/kg has gone up. By his own math, the op is currently at ~2 W/kg. There's plenty of room to grow.
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I'm pretty sure W/kg is based on your real weight, not your "lean" weight. All the cyclists I've known who've lost significant weight have not lost power. So they're producing 200W, and after dropping 20lbs, they're still making 200W, but the W/kg has gone up. By his own math, the op is currently at ~2 W/kg. There's plenty of room to grow.
#82
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despite all that, my heart rate and blood pressure is all normal. I mean, even if my weight drops my output doesn't just increase. my power to weight will, but not output. I plan on losing weight, but also getting into weight lifting, if I can find myself a friend willing to lift with me. probably will slim down to maybe 170.
Also, excess body fat will cause your body to overheat sooner and hurts the ability to go fast for long periods of time.
Last edited by mr_pedro; 08-12-14 at 08:40 AM.
#83
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Ah, Mt. Diablo the Bay Area power meter.
I'm pretty sure W/kg is based on your real weight, not your "lean" weight. All the cyclists I've known who've lost significant weight have not lost power. So they're producing 200W, and after dropping 20lbs, they're still making 200W, but the W/kg has gone up. By his own math, the op is currently at ~2 W/kg. There's plenty of room to grow.
I'm pretty sure W/kg is based on your real weight, not your "lean" weight. All the cyclists I've known who've lost significant weight have not lost power. So they're producing 200W, and after dropping 20lbs, they're still making 200W, but the W/kg has gone up. By his own math, the op is currently at ~2 W/kg. There's plenty of room to grow.
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Damn, I wouldn't mind being able to climb 5% at 16.2 on 0W
Yea, from looking at numbers on climbs it seems that strava estimates are decent assuming weight of rider/bike is correct in calm conditions. Get some ridiculous numbers of flat ones, or less steep climbs where the wind blows.
Yea, from looking at numbers on climbs it seems that strava estimates are decent assuming weight of rider/bike is correct in calm conditions. Get some ridiculous numbers of flat ones, or less steep climbs where the wind blows.
Some pro riders stripping power numbers when posting on strava - not sure why, those are not the fastest guys anyway (do not recall seeing strava rides from top 10 of Tour of California).
So when looking at top 25 you can throw away half right away (pro riders & riding in the peloton) and only look at October numbers.
There's many guys in top 50 who are non-pro and still have 300W+ for 165lb+ which tell me that 4W/kg thing is totally doable for OP or some "average person".
I would not consider height as an indicator for cycling "lean weight", you have to consider person's frame size as well.
Perhaps body fat % would be better target.
For example mesomorph with wide bones can be very lean (10% body fat or less) at 5'5" & 160lbs, there will be no practical use for such person to drop weight.
#86
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I am on the heavy side so it takes a lot of power to move me up the hill compared some of my friends that weigh around 140lbs.
But why are you stuck on power output? It is not p*ss*ng contest, just go out there and ride and enjoy yourself. Keep the cadence up and have fun.
#90
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I got 189W normalized power over three hours this Sunday (using powertap g3). 40 miles and 2500 ft of climbing and I was noodling along without much power output during the descents as it was a hot day (93 degree average temp, 102.3 max). On one of the climbs (category 2), I averaged around 280W over 45 minutes basically just enjoying the scenery and not pushing hard.
I am on the heavy side so it takes a lot of power to move me up the hill compared some of my friends that weigh around 140lbs.
But why are you stuck on power output? It is not p*ss*ng contest, just go out there and ride and enjoy yourself. Keep the cadence up and have fun.
I am on the heavy side so it takes a lot of power to move me up the hill compared some of my friends that weigh around 140lbs.
But why are you stuck on power output? It is not p*ss*ng contest, just go out there and ride and enjoy yourself. Keep the cadence up and have fun.
#92
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Me?
5 sec: 1800W
1 min: 850W
5 min: 400W
FT: 300W
At about 200 lbs.
And guess what? As cyclists go, I'm not all that fast. I can sprint OK, but I'm not there for the sprint all that often.
Why? Because W/kg is what's important - raw watts don't matter.
5 sec: 1800W
1 min: 850W
5 min: 400W
FT: 300W
At about 200 lbs.
And guess what? As cyclists go, I'm not all that fast. I can sprint OK, but I'm not there for the sprint all that often.
Why? Because W/kg is what's important - raw watts don't matter.
#93
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at higher speeds though, doesn't aero provide more of a challenge then weight?
#94
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Should have a road bike soon and can at least do a decent climb and get some estimates, but so far trainer + est w/MTB, everything seems pretty consistent with current wattage at FTP being around 300. Currently 70kg, but in a few months I should be back lean and in shape for running, which is closer to 60-62kg. Hard to imagine though that after just a few months of more seriously cycling (100+ mpw) and a few months preceding that of just doing some rides to support running fitness I would be near 5 w/kg potential, especially given that I'm at 6500'.
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From my personal experience average gym cycle trainer data is junk.
Your MTB efforts should be closer to real (very close in fact) but looking at your strava profile it does not seems like you are anywhere close to 300W.
Also going from 70 to 62 kg is like dropping your body fat from 20% to 10% - unless you tried that before you will be very surprised how difficult is that.
That is assuming you are at 20% (or more) body fat right now - on your strava picture you look pretty fit already.
I went from mid 15% to low 14 over last year (lost about a kilo or so) and seriously doubt I can ever get close to that "ideal" 10%.
If you that serious you can do hydrostatic weighing (around $50 in our area) or dexa scan (~100$) to get your accurate current body fat and start from there.
Try to do proper FTP test first - it is free and fun
Your MTB efforts should be closer to real (very close in fact) but looking at your strava profile it does not seems like you are anywhere close to 300W.
Also going from 70 to 62 kg is like dropping your body fat from 20% to 10% - unless you tried that before you will be very surprised how difficult is that.
That is assuming you are at 20% (or more) body fat right now - on your strava picture you look pretty fit already.
I went from mid 15% to low 14 over last year (lost about a kilo or so) and seriously doubt I can ever get close to that "ideal" 10%.
If you that serious you can do hydrostatic weighing (around $50 in our area) or dexa scan (~100$) to get your accurate current body fat and start from there.
Try to do proper FTP test first - it is free and fun
Last edited by IronHorseRiderX; 08-14-14 at 09:20 AM.
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Let's say I lose 1 min on a climb up a 10% hill to a good climber. Yeah, I'll go a lot faster than him on the descent. But because we're both going a lot faster, I'll only make up 15 sec of the minute I lost on the climb.
Another thing that's IMO more important than hitting huge anaerobic power numbers is being able to hit decent ones a whole lot of times and recover quickly after doing so.