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Old road bikes and weight.

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Old road bikes and weight.

Old 09-11-14, 06:09 PM
  #76  
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I had an '85 Simoncini (Columbus SLX) at 20.4 lbs with Campy Veloce and Vento wheels. I rode it to my fastest workout time, despite having a Cinelli carbon and Merckx EMX-3, both under 16 lbs. I sold it, rode a 20+ lb '85 Merckx and now ride an '86 DeRosa which is also 20.4 lbs, but still my smoothest bike. Over a metric century, my carbon Cinelli is a bit faster because it climbs faster, but that's about it. There are just so many other factors. Over a certain speed, air is much more of a drag than weight, and if you want the most bang for your buck, get a skinsuit and a slick helmet before you go dropping a grand a pound on your bike.

Cervelo found a 36-second average time advantage for a 17-lb bike vs. a 22-lb bike over a course that had an average time of 71 minutes.
Doing the math, that's not much, but over 3 weeks of the TdF, yes, it is. The test subjects were not in pace lines.

Pro riders generally agree that, once bikes went below 16 lbs or so, weight advantages are pretty much moot. Still, Trek produces the sub-12 lb Emonda. Someone will buy it. TdF peloton speeds are no faster than they were in the last steel bike era, but the TT speeds sure are, as are triathlon speeds, and they are all about aerodynamics.

Still, a 200-lb rider with a 16-lb bike is climbing with 216 lbs vs. his 21-lb bike climbing at 221 lbs. only 2%, but it's 2% of climbing weight. I doubt he makes it up on the descent, as once he gets to a certain speed, it's about aero, again.

DT shifters, often found on the older bikes, are not going to slow you down much, if you ride with them very often. Mainly because you'll learn what to do. I am more comfortable on my DT shifters, because I can jump 4-6 cogs with a flip of the wrist, and gain 20' while some other riders are flailing away at their STI/Ergos. On the other hand, if I miss a shift, I'm off the bar on my R arm until I get it right. It's a wash.

My most recent bike purchase? A fillet-brazed steel 2014 bike, made in the USA. Without pedals and cages, it's 16.34 lbs. I want it all, baby.
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Old 09-11-14, 07:33 PM
  #77  
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Occasionally ride a 1990 Miyata Seven 21, which has an aluminum main frame, and Cro Mo stays and fork. Weighs in at 21.5 pounds. Feels a little faster than my 2008 Scott SUB 30, which is closer to 30 pounds, set up as a commuter, with panniers and a tool bag.
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Old 09-11-14, 08:04 PM
  #78  
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I upgraded several vintage steel bikes. I sold some, but still occaisionally ride two, a 86 Nishiki Prestige with Tange 2 tubing and a '92 Schwinn Paramount. I put a full Campy Chorus 10 speed on the Paramount along with Ksyrium Elite wheels and Michelin Pros. The Nishiki was a cheapo upgrade, a couple of used Alex aero wheels, 8 speed Ultegra (600) brifters, a Shimano 600 rear derailer and Tektro dual pivot brakes. I kept the original crank, BB, front DR, and bars. Neither bike can seriously challenge the two CF bikes I ride, but the Nishiki is fun to ride. The Paramount can only be called a disappointment. It feels like its got an anchor slowing it down. I'll find some time over the winter to work on it and see if any improvements can be made, but I doubt it. I've got one more I want to complete working on, a 86 Ironman with Tange 1 tubing. But these are still fun riders, not bikes I'll take on a group ride.

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Old 09-11-14, 09:41 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by Bandera View Post

Current "endurance" CF framesets lack the versatility of the classic clubman's designs since fender fitment is generally lacking, a serious oversight in my opinion.

-Bandera
Sounds like a good enough reason to me for N+1

Love the picture your Merckx. One of my N+1's of the future. Need a 57 top tube (give or take) if you happen to see one on the market.

Edit: I have a Kona steel road bike - not "old", but love the ride as much as my Caad.

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Old 09-12-14, 12:41 AM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by papik View Post
This thread is for old road bikes, this is an old road bike rebuilt with 80 / 90 components , not with carbon parts.
Speaking of old bikes rebuilt with 90's components and carbon parts. My Pinarello built up to just under 20 pounds with Record Titanium and carbon seatpost, handlebar and RS80 wheels. Mix of parts from each era. I love this bike but my modern era carbon bike with Red components still seems faster. I'm not sure what the difference is but it's about a 5pound difference compared to the carbon bike so not insignificant.

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Old 09-12-14, 06:54 AM
  #81  
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My 19.5lbs 1987 Trek 560 is just as fast but not quite as "snappy" as my 15.9lbs Cannondale Six13:


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Old 09-12-14, 07:17 AM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by fureshi View Post
Speaking of old bikes rebuilt with 90's components and carbon parts. My Pinarello built up to just under 20 pounds with Record Titanium and carbon seatpost, handlebar and RS80 wheels. Mix of parts from each era. I love this bike but my modern era carbon bike with Red components still seems faster. I'm not sure what the difference is but it's about a 5pound difference compared to the carbon bike so not insignificant.

That Performance carbon seat post you have is just about the lightest I have ever come across at 150 g. I have three of them. I just wish they had not been discontinued. There is nothing else like it on the market that I can find. Of course a two-bolt adjustment mechanism would be an improvement, but that is all moot now.
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Old 09-12-14, 08:51 AM
  #83  
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The Pinarello and the Trek above.

VERY, VERY nice builds.

I am weakening on building up a Ritchey steel road bike to match my MTB as we speak...
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Old 09-12-14, 09:10 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
That Performance carbon seat post you have is just about the lightest I have ever come across at 150 g. I have three of them. I just wish they had not been discontinued. There is nothing else like it on the market that I can find. Of course a two-bolt adjustment mechanism would be an improvement, but that is all moot now.
I haven't seen another that's as light either. It was quite a good value even at full cost. I think I got mine for about $70 on sale. Should have picked up a few more when they were still available.
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Old 09-12-14, 09:58 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by fureshi View Post
I haven't seen another that's as light either. It was quite a good value even at full cost. I think I got mine for about $70 on sale. Should have picked up a few more when they were still available.
Yep, $70 was the magic price. And then, pfft, it was gone. Kind of like their full carbon fork for $120 while it lasted. Here is the one I snagged a part of my repainted custom steel. This is one that is 16.75 lb sans pedals and cages. 16.25 lb once I switched to Kinlin XR-200 rims.

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Old 09-12-14, 01:15 PM
  #86  
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My 1987-8 Pinarello Montello with Mavic Sport rims and 36 spokes and all Shimano 600 came in at 20.5 on a bike shop scale.
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Old 09-12-14, 01:39 PM
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20.7 lbs as is on this photo:


2 bottle cages, regular steel crap.
Nothing fancy going on, maybe the 90s era aero Dura Ace seatpost (263g), Madison Prime saddle (219g - budget ww).
Dura Ace pedals, and that's about it. wheelset is 2000g, tires are 700x25c GP4000s, notice the silly small clearance towards seat tube!
5700 groupset.
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Old 09-12-14, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Yep, $70 was the magic price. And then, pfft, it was gone. Kind of like their full carbon fork for $120 while it lasted. Here is the one I snagged a part of my repainted custom steel. This is one that is 16.75 lb sans pedals and cages. 16.25 lb once I switched to Kinlin XR-200 rims.

Nice...I'm sure that carbon fork took a lot of weight out of the bike. It's amazing how much steel forks weigh.
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Old 09-13-14, 06:06 AM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by fureshi View Post
Nice...I'm sure that carbon fork took a lot of weight out of the bike. It's amazing how much steel forks weigh.
Yeah, the difference was about 0.8 lb. I need to get a new picture. I have flipped the stem and replaced the carbon wheels with red anodized Kinlins. My point for this thread is that one can enjoy a classic steel frame and still build a light bike with modern fork and parts. BTW notice that I had to go with the Thomson Masterpiece seat post as this rebuild occurred after the discontinuation of the Performance carbon post.
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Old 09-13-14, 06:31 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by DinoShepherd View Post
Fun thread.

My bike from the late 80's was an SL-tubed Rossin with 600 components and went at 20lbs ready to race. This was with 32 hole Open4CDs, Cinelli bar and stem.

Considered pretty light for the era. BTW, the bike road great.
With a change to lighter vintage tubular rims such as GEL 280s and 250 gram tubulars, you lose about 1 lb in rim and probably break about even in tire/tube. But yes, 20# is pretty darn good! On a a well-built wheel with 32 and smooth roads such rims can last a long time!
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Old 09-13-14, 06:51 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by 1991BRB1 View Post
My take on this - noob here, but I've gone through a pretty quick learning curve over the past few months. I am a road rider and I ride a 24 year old steel bike, so I can certainly provide some insight at least to my own recent trial-and-error experience.

When I joined an organized riding club earlier this year, the intention was to cruise around on my vintage steel bikes and smugly enjoy their retro-superior vibe. As of June 2014, all of my bikes had downtube shifters, tall Nitto quill stems, flat or toe-clip pedals, lugs, and Brooks saddles. I scoffed at Carbon roadie chic with all of the disdain that too much time on the Internet can instill.

However, I very quickly learned that I really like to ride as fast as I can, and I prefer to ride with faster, more experienced riders who are smooth and predictable. And I wondered, can I really ride in a tight paceline at 20 mph on a 21 lb steel bike with downtube shifters and toe clips and actually "fit in" (mechanically, not socially) with guys and gals on CF with brifters and clipless pedals?

The point of this is that, naturally, I started to tweak and upgrade and change things to suit the reality of riding in a modern co-operative setting, but the things I felt needed changing are NOT what I would have expected.

I quickly ditched the toe clips and got proper clipless pedals and road shoes.
The tall Nitto stem got swapped for a long, low stem that allowed for a more aggressive/aero position
The Noodle bar got swapped for a lighter ugly ergo-bend bar in ghastly matte black paint

So far that's all I've felt that I needed to change. The bike is still a 20-ish lb steel bike and it hasn't held me back. Surprisingly, I LOVE the downtube shifters. They're intuitive and convenient. I find that the ability to drop 7 cogs and shift/trim chainrings instantaneously and one-handed outweighs the occasional need to sit briefly on an ascent to shift. And I hear a lot of chain rubbing and drivetrain noise coming from "modern" drivetrains whereas my bike is silent and shifts with a reliable "chunk."
Very cool! so fit and control trumps weight!
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Old 09-13-14, 02:22 PM
  #92  
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20.83lbs as it sits.
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Old 10-22-14, 04:48 PM
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One of my road bike is steel is weight around 27 pounds. My other road bike is aluminum is weight around 23 pounds. My mountain bike is weight around 30 pounds.
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Old 10-22-14, 05:14 PM
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What size crank and cassete you have have in your nice univega bike
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Old 10-22-14, 05:31 PM
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Hello how are you. You do nice bikes. I have two road bikes. One is cannondale R300. Is aluminum frame When i buy that bike is had 52/42 crank and 7 speeds cassete 12-28. I replace with crank 53/39 and 9 speeds cassete. 12-25. I want make better that bike like put brifters better wheels crank cassete. How much you think is can cost me to make my bike fast and lightweight or close to new carbon fiber bikes. The bike now is weight i think around 23 pounds that is without two bottles water is go around to 25 pounds. The other road bike is steel frame bianchi strada lx. Is weight around 27 pounds, The frame is feel real heavy without wheels. Is possible i do that bike lighther or is because is so heavy the frame is just waste my time to try improve that bike. What is your opinion about carbon fiber bikes. I have one carbon fiber fork in one aluminum cannondale frame never i built no have the parts and is too tall for me that frame. is have carbon fiber fork. Is worth you think i put that fork in the bianchi or i put in the cannondale.
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Old 10-22-14, 05:38 PM
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Hello how are you. In my two road bike i have DT shifters. I do same think like you i jump cogs 5-6 at one time. I like that. Do you think is better i let The DT on my bikes and i not try put brifters? I try get comfortable to move my hands from the handlebar for change gears with the DT shifters i not feel downhill comfortable or general in high speeds i do that and that make me i lose speed
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Old 10-22-14, 05:53 PM
  #97  
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Here are mine:
'84 Schwinn Paramount: 22.4 lb
'89 Schwinn 754 (aluminum frame/carbon fork): 22.8 lb
'91 Trek 820 (daughter's bike): 30.2 lb
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Old 10-22-14, 08:38 PM
  #98  
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I have a 1986 Bridgestone 600. Definitely not "top of the line" or even close, but probably representative of run-of-the-mill lugged 4130 CroMoly frames from that time period.
Size 57cm, with pedals, cages, and (modern plastic) fenders, it's exactly 24lbs.
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Old 10-22-14, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by bobbyl1966 View Post
Hello how are you. In my two road bike i have DT shifters. I do same think like you i jump cogs 5-6 at one time. I like that. Do you think is better i let The DT on my bikes and i not try put brifters? I try get comfortable to move my hands from the handlebar for change gears with the DT shifters i not feel downhill comfortable or general in high speeds i do that and that make me i lose speed
You can convert to modern shifters. I did my older bike for about $350 for new shifters, used wheel, new cassette & chain, used rear derailleur.

If you already have a modern wheel, you can use it. You need to make sure the other parts are all designed to work together. For example, I used all Campagnolo 10 speed.

It's hard to make an older bike much lighter without replacing most of the parts, which is expensive, and won't make very much difference anyway.
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Old 10-22-14, 09:23 PM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by TheRef View Post
I'm thinking of buying a nice steel road bike,...... Here is the thing. I know nothing about older bikes, other than think that they look cool.

My Fuji Gran Fondo weights about 18lbs...... What was the weight of top of the line bikes from the 60's, 70's and 80's?
The top-of-the-line steel bikes weighed a little more than your Gran Fondo.... nothing really noticeable 3-5 pounds. Although "typical" 60's-70's bikes could be pretty heavy.

The differences... between todays bicycles and the bicycles from 30, 40, or 50 years ago are huge. And mostly the things that make a difference have nothing to do with weight. And bicycles made in the 60's [in most cases] aren't really comparable to the bicycles made in the 80's. Changes in bicycle technology didn't just happen with carbon fiber, or aluminum. And the evolution of the bicycle can't be measured with a scales.
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