tomget

I've been riding a 1998? Trek 5200 with Ultegra Triple up until it got crashed last October, and bike shop peeps think the frame or fork, all OCLV, could be weakened as a result. But these things don't show it until it happens. I like the bike and still ride it some, but roads are rough and I do a lot of climbing and descending on rougher asphalt roads each year. Fix the roads peeps . Too many potholes.

Anyway so I'm thinking maybe they're right and obviously haven't bought a new bike since 1998 and a lot has changed. I was real happy with this bike and the local shop is a dealer. Its a good shop with great mechanics and life time riders, so its convenient to stay with TREK.

I was planning on buying a Madone 4 Series bike when I was shopping last April but now as I see on line TREK has changed their line up and no longer offers this bike. Unless I'm misunderstanding their site. A somewhat similar bike appears to be what they now call the Emonda SL 8. So I know nothing about this model except the specifics mentioned at the TREK site..which are complete and detailed. 500 series OCLV,15.56lbs,full carbon fork,Bontrager Race wheels(I'll probably use my own with Chris King Hubs if they fit), and Dura-Ace 11 speed It retails for about $4500.

Does anyone have this bike? Do you like it? Any regrets. Any bike I might like better?

I just cruize around Napa County where I live. I'm an older guy...68. Like to climb the hills and such. No competition interests.

Any suggestions?

Tom

moppeddler

That's a very nice bike. It's been discussed much on this board, so look around and you should be able to find some reviews.

bbattle

Be sure to test ride the Domane as well as the Madone and Emonda.


https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...monda-sl6.html

https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...cs-review.html



https://www.bikeforums.net/fifty-plus...ek-domane.html

https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...3-ultegra.html

tomget

Thanks..bbattle

Good link

Tom

tomget

I bought the Trek Emonda SL 6. Just got it home a couple hours ago..

Lanceoldstrong

Ride report please. Looks like a great bike, I read a full write up in Bicycling Magazine.
The reviewer was very impressed.

big chainring

Looks all urban assault like.

What happened to red or blue or green bikes.

Enjoy your new bike.

cale

Sounds like you're going to shake up the peloton. Careful, your region doesn't need too much shaking.

Good luck with your new bike.

tomget

I agree..It only comes in either matte black or red. Not wild about the matte black, but OK with it. Didn't care for the specific red...which also comes with white bar tape and white saddle etc. Not really what I wanted either so went with the black..assault..like you said. I've read that others get a SL 8? or similar which has more color choices and just swap out/and for the SL 6 features that they want. Think it depends on the shop and the bike size. I've got a 58 cm and apparently if I'm reading correctly there's less flexibility in what's available for the 58cm and up bikes. Seems like the smaller bikes have more choices..at least that's what I recall seeing when I was doing the ordering etc.

tomget

Ride report..sure. Road it yesterday for the first time. Didn't ride all that far. Just a couple 12 mile stints on the flats to get the feel of it, and take it back to the bike shop to get a second fitting on it.

I totally love it..It is freaky light weight..which is always good imo..when I hoist it up to my ceiling "bike hook hanger" its so much lighter than my previous TREK 5200 that I almost "slam it" ..its really light..don't have the right scale to measure the 2 bikes but its significant.

It shifts much better for sure. I had a TREK 5200 from 1998 with a triple Ultegra..which at its best..and mostly I was very pleased with the bike..but it didn't shift anything like the better 2 compact chain rings. Much simpler. I'm sure the chain will hold up better..or I'm guessing.

The braking is super stable and solid. I thought the brakes on my previous bike were good..but not compared to this. Had the pads just gotten hard on my old bike? IDK I didn't think so. But this definitely brakes better.

Haven't climbed with it yet, but all indications are that it will be a big improvement. I went with the 50/34 Crank and the 11/32 Cassette. That's pretty low. Lower than my climbing gears on the TREK 5200. I went lower for a couple reasons, I live in Napa County Calif..and often its all about the hills. We're a little valley with "some" flats but they have a lot of dangerous big rigs/two lane country roads/jammed with winery tasting tourist visitors etc. Many stick to the safer hills which are really steep for many of us. Me included. I'm recovering from my worst crash every last Oct 2013 when I got pushed into a guard rail by a passing winery 18 wheeler who "thought" he'd finished the pass. No..I'm still back here!! And he pushed me into a steel guard rail on a narrow two lane country road windy bridge approach after an on coming car came around the upcoming corner. I got busted up. Both left and right pelvis plus ribs plus torn flesh etc. Was hauled off and in a walker for about 8 weeks, and I think made as good a recovery as possible, but my 68 year old body is gonna take a long time to get better!! It set me back big time. So doing the best I can.

The one area where I do have a concern is how I fit on the bike. I've been riding 58 cm bikes since 1990 and when i ordered this at the local shop I asked if they needed to "size" me before ordering another 58 and they said no. You're good. But with the newer to me bikes that have these less upright frames..both the head set and seatpost..I can't fit myself like I once did. I mean I used to use a plum bob from my knee to the pedal and get the center of my shoe cleat etc. But even with saddle totally forward I can't achieve that. And same when I ride I'm now seeing more of the front wheel axle which normally I fit to where the handle blocks my vision of it. So its like I'm just totally set back further in relationship to pushing down on pedals and such. Even in my testing rides yesterday it seemed like I was using the back of my legs more than my thighs. I raised the seat and that lessened some.

Has anyone else new to the more "set back" fames had an issue with this? Is this gonna be a problem for me?

But for sure the bike is awesome. And so went ahead on got a Garmin GPS cycle computer and downloaded Strava app. Expecting the best.

But I should add that with such a short and medium effort ride yesterday I was surprised to get some leg cramps last night. I was also a little saddle sore in using the new saddle which is understandable but the leg cramps made me wonder if I'm not gonna fit right on this bike. Anybody have any experience like my fitment issues? I showed the shop my inability to get center on the pedal clip with the plum bob etc..and they didn't seem to be concerned and just said its because this newer type frame geometry causes the rider to be set back more, and I agree, but is that gonna be bad on my knees or? etc?

Lanceoldstrong

Hi Tom,

I am sorry to hear about your fit issues.
When you get it nailed, I would love to ride Mt. Veeder from Redwood Rd. with you.
That is a moderate climb I love, and I drive up from Concord a few times a year for it.
I like Howell Mountain up from the Silverado Trail to Angwin too.

I went from a traditional geometry aluminum frame to a a frame with the modern style like yours 2 years ago.

The main difference in our experiences was Local Bike Shop attention to fit.
The LBS I use had me spend time on the bike, on a trainer, and dialed me in.

They changed: stock stem length to a slightly shorter one, and changed handle bars, (shorter reach to the hoods), plus different saddle.
Then they had me take a 40 mile test ride, from the shop and back, so I could give them my impressions.
It is in the interest of an LBS to fit the rider.
They profit from, after the bike sale, component sales and prevent a bike being returned.
(I had to pay for my new bars, I upgraded to Easton EC 90 and I bought a different saddle that is a personal preference)
For the rider, it is like buying a suit off the rack vs. having a tailor make alterations so the suit fits you perfectly.

Please return to your LBS with your issues, make an appointment for a fitting, it is included with bike purchase at most shops.

The issue of you seeing your front hub is the same for me. It took some getting used to and is normal on the new bikes.
Look how swept forward the forks are on a 1998 5200 compared to your new bike.
The fork rake brings the front hub under the bars, hiding it from the rider.
Your new bike has an different fork rake angle.
The front hub will show since it is closer to the head tube, in a peek a boo position where the bars don't hide it.


Here also are some videos that are very helpful for understanding modern trends in bike fit.
Reach and Stem:

General Fit:
Best of luck!

tomget

Thx for all the info Lance..I'm gonna watch them in a minute..sure it will help. For sure I'd like to ride up Redwood with you. I did it a couple months back on my TREK 5200 and after the big crash i had last year and how long its taking to get back in shape..I struggled to do the Redwood/Dry Creek loop. I used to do it in 1:45 I don't know how long it took, but probably close to 3 hours yikes!!

I only made it because at one time I did this ride after work almost 3 times a week because Dry Creek/Veeder/Redwood is all just blocks from my house! And if I didn't have all the history I would have given up, but it used to so easy for me that I just struggled along until I got it.

When I get stronger..let's do it.

Tom

goenrdoug

random thought: new seatpost with less setback?

Lanceoldstrong

+1 on this, I forgot that part of my fit was also a different seatpost.

bigdo13

that bike is sweeter than the wine they make in those valley's you cruise through sir. I hope it ages just as well... Nice choice, happy riding.

rpenmanparker 

That stuff about more fork rake on the old bike is silly. It is just an optical illusion if even that. Let the shop fit you properly. You may need a 0 setback seat post which is common these days. It is not likely the fault of the frame, but the shorter length of the rails on the saddle than you are accustomed to. We used to use the rails to get good setback fit. Now folks buy a different seat post so the saddle can always be mounted more or less in the middle of the rails. Go figure.

And you should see just about the same amount of wheel axle on both bikes if you want to be positioned the same on both. Some of the newer geometries allow a more upright position, but judicious choice of stem and number of stem spacers can usually allow even a more upright bike to fit like a racier one. You were rather casual about the size you ordered however. Both you AND the dealer should have agreed that transferring your top tube length and head tube height from the old frame to the new frame size is a must. If the new frame wouldn't quite allow that in any of the appropriate sizes, then you should have made sure that the stack and reach of the new frame was not so different from the old one as to disallow matching positions on the two of them. As I said, it is unlikely you will have a problem when a comprehensive fit is done, but it should not have been left to chance. Good luck and enjoy the new ride.

tomget

More fork rate on the old bike? I meant to say more fork rake on the new bike not the old. I thought I said that. I don't know what you mean by letting the shop fit me right..I did exactly what they said. What do you mean? I went in twice. And they did exactly what they wanted. I'm not sure if maybe you're mixing up my comments with someone else, because this doesn't sound like a response to what I said. Is it? Did I say I didn't let the shop fit me? When you talk about a zero setback seat post I don't know what you mean. This bike doesn't have a seatpost it has a "seat mast " or called something like that, and the bike shop didn't suggest anything like that. They said the current fit as they did it was GOOD. And the bike shop did transfer my measurements from my old bike to the new. Why do you say they didn't. The distance is the same its just that the new bike frame is at a steeper rake and the results are different. My TREK 5200 was a more upright bike. The bike shop is happy with how the bike fits me. I'll have to ride some and see how things go.



thanks

newbie101

Fantastic post! I'm glad you had such a great experience with your shop. "My" shop was extremely uncooperative with my fit: fighting me every step of the way. I am seriously considering canceling my purchase.

Tomget, I'm very sympathetic with your experience with sizing. Too bad the shop didn't have you test ride several different sizes first. I would definitely return to the shop and express your concerns with sizing and see what they can do to help you out.

In my estimation, they should have you test ride several sizes, 56, 58, 60 and see what fits you best.

If they can't help you, I would consider another shop. I can tell you first hand that trying to cajole a shop to do what's right when they don't want to is an utter waste of time.

newbie101

Yeah, you've encountered a bum bike shop. IME, quality bike shops are the exception. They know there are lots of wealthy bicycle riders (often older) who have a ton of disposable cash and won't complain too much, if at all.

I was in a shop a week or two ago, and a shop employee told a customer that their original price quote was off by like $800 (in the shop's favor, not the customer's). The customer didn't blink and said flatly "that's fine."

I'm trying to find a quality shop with a bike I like and with proper fitting. It has been surprisingly difficult.

I'm very close to simply going with an online bike purchase.

tomget

Newbie 101 I'm not happy with the fit as yet, and I plan to go back again today with the bike and again stress my concern about knee over pedal spindle being different than where I've had it set in the past. And also wondering if the saddle is gonna work for me because I had a sore spot .

With my previous bike I rode with the knee directly over the pedal spindle and now I can't get that. I know that's a general guideline and people can vary that depending on whether they have pain issues at front or back of knee and what type of bike(mountain,road,aero or upright etc) but I'd be happier if I could maintain the same. And even concerned that the bike is "so big" that's there's no adjustability in that area. I would think there should be. Unless there's something new or different about this frame that I don't know.

The first time they fitted me on the bike it was clear the seat mast was too tall...My right leg was totally extended when I got on their training stand to get it fit to me. No bend in the knee or very little. They swapped for a shorter seat mast and now its fine.

I'm concerned the only fix for the knee over pedal spindle(except moving shoe cleat etc which is already as far as it goes) would be a smaller bike or a different kind of seat mast that moves the saddle forward--don't even know if such a thing exists on this frame. Or if that's even a good idea.

The shop is very highly regarded, but I think for some reason they're dragging their feet with me. I'm disappointed about it and all I can do is tell them how I feel and hope we can resolve it. Their position seems to be that they duplicated the measurements from my previous bike and therefore it should be good. To me..not an expert..that doesn't make sense unless all fits as need be. And if knee/spindle relationship was the same as before I'd be good...but its not..in the past I was definitely over the center of spindle.

I think it will work out.

Thanks
Tom

tomget

Maybe I can get a different seat mast as was mentioned earlier by rpenmanparker in his comments. As you can see the seat post on my previous TREK 5200 was not angled back where saddle attaches but the current seatmast clearly does angle back and could be the cause of the problem with the knee over pedal spindle.

Maybe they can get me the zero set back seat mast rpenmanparker was mentioning. I didn't understand what he was referring to when I first read his comments but now I think I see.

tomget

I just now attached the "original" TREK 5200 saddle which i never much used until recently to the new bike the Emonda SL 6 and because the older saddle has much longer rails i can now get the exact "knee over pedal spindle" that I've always used. Problem solved? Maybe.

I need to see what that does to my "reach"..arms shoulders etc to the front, but maybe it will be better too, because the reach was borderline too far. I almost got them to swap to a lesser length stem.

And maybe this will also solve my soreness with the OEM Emonda SL 6 saddle. Its really cool looking but either because its a "cut out"..which I've never used or just the shape doesn't fit my sit bones etc.. we'll see.

Its still zero dark thirty here, so when the sun appears I'll go on the road and see how I like it and how the measurements look.

Thanks for all the help.

tomget

This "bike fitting" video had some ideas that are new to me. Don't know if they're totally valid or not and maybe others have seen it, but thought I'd mention it here since so much talk about fitting bike.


John Crook of Cycle Right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFQfuGibf0A

goenrdoug

You ought to be able to get a seatpost/mast/whatever with no setback to replace the one in the photo. That way the seat hasn't got to be pushed all the way forward on the rails to get your preferred position (and you can put a wider range of seats on there and not be constrained to just your old one with the longer rails.)

Then, yeah, I'd say problem solved.

newbie101

Tom,

Thanks for your clarification. You have a significant concern so your intuition is probably correct, regardless of what the "experts" at the shop tell you.

At the very least, test ride the same frame one size smaller, and even one size bigger.

I also recently bought a bike from a highly regarded shop. And like yourself, I've encountered a significant issue with their unwillingness (in the recent past anyway) to help me. The simplest explanation is most likely correct in both situations. The shop is simply too lazy to help. Not unless they absolutely have to. It's just basic human psychology and economics. Most people will simply do as little work as they can. The shops in question already have our money in their pockets, so they perceive any additional labor as a "loss" for them. They don't consider it to be part of the sale.

I would recommend you insist that you get a bike that fits properly. If it means returning the bike for a smaller frame, and the test ride confirms your intuition, then by all means, the shop should be willing to do so. If it means returning the bike either for a full refund, or with a small restocking fee, then the shop should accommodate you.

There's no point in keeping a bike that doesn't fit you properly or that you are not happy with.

Best of luck. And don't settle!