Cornering help
 

I need some tips for cornering. I've been riding for a few years, maybe the last 6 months in a group (a pretty fast one--for me at least). On my group rides, it feels hard for me to hold the line of the person in front of me through any fast corners. And I also drop back a little from the person in front of me during curvy (modest) descents. I am not sure what is going on. I feel like my bike just won't hold the line on these curves. I saw a post about turning using "all handlebars" and it struck me that this might apply to me. When I corner, I think that I am turning--the handlebars. Should I be in the drops? How do I learn how much to lean? Just how fine is the line between leaning and going down?

Also, most of the people I ride with have newish race style bikes, but mine is a more relaxed geometry classic looking steel bike. Could that make the difference in the handling?

Thanks, all!

Cornering help
 

I love cornering. Takes practice to get it down. Watch some videos of races on tight circuits to get an idea if technique. Then find some roads with light traffic to test your skills.

The bike doesn't matter. I ride a bike boom 10 speed and corner much more aggressively than most others on group rides.

It's probably not the bike. On a fast descent, cornering in the drops can give you better control. In the flats it doesn't matter much. As for lean angle, no one goes down because they leaned over too much. They go down because even at max lean there wasn't enough traction for the speed they were trying to carry. How much traction is there? Try this experiment: get off your bike and put one hand on the saddle and one on the middle of the bars. Now lean the bike over 45 degrees and push straight down (towards the wheels) on the bar and saddle and see if you can make the bike slide sideways. Even if you put all your weight into it, the bike won't budge. With decent tires on a good road surface, the amount of traction you can get from those two little contact patches is actually quite amazing.

In terms of technique, you should be cornering outside pedal down with a significant portion of your weight on the pedal (bars and saddle should be only lightly weighted). I often see people cornering with pedals at 3 and 9 (or even occasionally inside pedal down). Believe me, having your outside pedal weighted makes a huge difference. Also, don't look down at the patch of road right in front of your wheel - look up through the corner to where you want the bike to go. As you approach the corner you should be looking at the apex. As you approach the apex you should be looking ahead to the exit.

Cornering fast is mostly about building confidence and that only comes through practice. Find a good size empty parking lot and ride laps so that you're taking a corner every few seconds. Red Solo cups make good pylons (if its not too windy). You can stick them down with a little masking tape or duct tape. Mark your turns tight enough so you are forced to hold a line through them. Start slow and work on technique while you commit the course to muscle memory. Then gradually increase your speed so you're taking the turns faster and faster. Periodically switch direction so you practice both left and right turns. With all the uncertainty removed (you now know the corners, the line, how much traction you have, etc.) it's much easier to push yourself so you start to get the feel of more aggressive cornering. The goal of all this is for cornering to become a natural, fluid technique that you don't have to think about. Thirty minutes of that once or twice a week and you'll find your confidence (and speed) cornering on regular rides is greatly improved.

I would definitely look around the internet for tips on proper positioning, pressure, etc. As someone who grew up slalom water skiing, and rode a snowmobile for a long number of years through some dicey conditions - I can tell you the most important advice on taking turns at high speed - wherever you're looking is the direction you're most likely to go. Keep your eyes focused on where you want to go, i.e. "peek" around the corner and much of the rest should fall into line.

YouTube is your friend. I learned a few tips and now corner great. Best advice is to put your weight on your outside foot as you corner. Make sure this leg is at 6 o clock.

Great advice. I remember back in the 80s the bike mags saying not to extend your inside knee like motorcycle racers do because a bicycle is not a motorized vehicle and the dynamics are different. Keep your knees together normally. Yet today I see cyclists do it. A bad habit or a change in thinking? I believe the intent was that you need to keep your centre of gravity away from the inside so keep your hands on the drops and your legs in.

Oldsters may remember the Avocet slick tire ad from the 80s featuring this famous photo of Jobst Brandt:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7KMxSboj2p...ndt+avocet.jpg
cozybeehive.blogspot.ca/2010/03/jobst-brandt-part-iv.html

It was used in full page ads to quell concerns the new treadless tires weren't safe for cornering.

There are a lot of great threads on Bike Forums about cornering with a lot of detail that this thread probably won't get into. Use Google, not the site search site:bikeforum.net cornering

I like cornering threads because all of the advice about technique works, even the contradictory advice! But a caution on that: trying to do everything they say or combining techniques will set you back and for me it takes a week of riding until I can corner again. So even though all the advice is good I'd take it all with a grain of salt.

You have received lots of good advice to work with. I love defending and corning at hi speed.

I do want to say this to you.
#1 Only descent at a speed you are confertable with! speed will come over time as that level of confidence increases. (You should not need to think about turning it should be natural)
#2 Always know the road before you try descending fast you need to know the turns and the sequence if they are switch backs your lines entering and exiting become very important as speed increases! this includes surface condition, camber.
#3 If you climb up the same route as the descent be looking around at the road for troubled spots also.
#4 As others mentioned always look as far around the corner as you can keep your eyes on the road ahead of you.
#5 If you are following a rider do not look at them or get fixated on their rear wheel bad habit! ride your own line looking around them as much as you can and stay focused ahead of you not on the rider in front of your wheel.

Ride with in your limits and have fun most of all!

The thing that helps me the most when decending and cornering is to:

Point belly button into the apex of the turn. Although belly buttons have nothing to do with cornering, doing this rotates your body and relaxes your body and mind.

Try it! I find it really helps.

Most all of the advice and suggestions about positioning on the bike are about perception and feel rather than actual cornering dynamics. Riding the right line and not hitting the ground with the inside pedal are the only things that really matter, IMO.

Bottom line is this :)
I have a hard time even thinking about all the positioning and such I do not even think about all this stuff the only thing my mind seems to be on is the actual turn and my line for the entrance and exit for the following turn, but even this if I know the road well I don't even think about this it just happens.

Somebody should've told Tao Geoghegan-Hart this piece of advice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NW9V6Owo5U

My personal rule is that I want to always see my braking distance in front of me. This means that I take blind corners slow, but can hit open switchbacks pretty hard.

Look at how the pros sometimes don't pay attention and screw up. Watch Quintana at the Vuelta last month as he is distracted by tightening his shoe, and misses the correct line going into the corner. A last second adjustment out to the road's edge was too late for the speed he was going.

Quintana s vuelta dream comes crashing down | News | SBS Cycling Central

+!, I have ridden with a few guys with a lot of faith, I'm an atheist when it comes to corners. I'd be more aggressive if I knew that traffic and road conditions would be perfect beyond my LOS.

Traffic is my chief concern. I'm always convinced there's a pickup barrelling up the road towards me that I'm just not seeing/hearing. I once flew round a blind corner at speed when I was 14 or 15, and I landed on the front windshield of a Toyota Starlet, with my frame totaled and a couple hundred pounds (a lot of money to a teenager back then) worth of damage done to the car. I don't want to ever repeat that experience.

In other words, do not do any derring-do stuff on corners! And as said in previous post, you are entirely responsible for your lines on group rides, and keep the inside pedal up!

He said he couldn't slow enough, but didn't think that adjusting the straps was a factor. It looked to me that he went off the road and was ok for a split second until, while off on the side, he hit the lip of the road's edge with his front wheel.

He did a passable roll over the handlebar though, good enough to avoid a major injury. That's maybe something that should be included in cornering technique.

Weight on the outside foot, looking through the corner, and understanding counter steer made the most dramatic impacts on my cornering skills. They are still fairly lackluster, but they lack less luster than they did.

Do you guys really think of all this when your going around a corner?
Just wondering please take NO over my asking really wondering.

ditto - but emphasis on the visual skills. you go where you look, period. looking the right distance ahead of yourself and at the right part of the road makes the biggest difference in comfort, confidence, and preventing crashes.

Yes, Line of Sight. There are a lot of blind corners here, and it's easy to go fast around them. One of the local club members had a rule of thumb: to not exceed the "Speed Limit X" posted on the road signs for the corner. It's so easy to do 35 or 40 mph on a corner labeled "25 mph", but I can't see the road around the bend at all.