Campag4life

Have been spending a bit of time on hammer sessions and wonder what my LTHR really is. I am thinking that is maybe near 180 bpm.
And so thought I would ask you other guys. What is your LTHR and what is your age? I am 60 y.o. and a bit surprised mine is perhaps higher than the max HR of many my age. How much suffering should there be at LTHR? I seem to be able to hold 175-178 bpm mile after mile without much suffering. Not sure I could sustain it for 50 miles straight however or haven't tried. Please share your LTHR if you would relative to your age.

BoSoxYacht

How did you arrive at 180 being your LT heart rate?

canam73

I'm 42 and my lthr seems to be 170 derived from a "last 20 minutes of a 30 min tt" test and confirmed by a few years of data in Golden Cheetah.

demoncyclist

Find a place that will actually test your HR threshold and find out for sure. At 60, your age predicted max HR is 160 (220-age). But that number doesn't account for fitness, heart stroke volume, and a host of other factors that can only be accounted for in a controlled test.

Campag4life

Joe Friel - Determining your LTHR

Do you know yours?

Campag4life

Not what I am asking. I am asking members here what their LTHR and age are. Do you know yours?
Thanks

demoncyclist

I have asthma, so it would be very difficult for me to do a 30 minute all out effort that is meaningful. My lungs won't allow an accurate measurement of what my heart may be capable of. I am a distance guy vs. a speed guy.

hubcyclist

I'm 34 and in a few tests I've done, it's like 163 or so. I've only been cycling a year, so my understanding is that this is a number I can improve upon with more training. I've done various long solo rides (anywhere from 50-100 miles) in the region at 17-18mph average speed in my endurance zone this year, so hopefully with more threshold training this winter I can bump up my performance and push that threshold up a bit.

kingfishr

This is from 2 years ago at age 54 and shows about a 2% drop from a test done in 2003. I'm doing a new test next Friday so will be interesting to see if there has been any change. But even though my LT here is 148 @ 150 watts, I have done several multi-hour rides averaging 180+ watts and a pulse around 170. I recently did a 47min race with a 30 min average pulse of 179@238 watts, so not sure how comparable the numbers are between individuals, unless you actually have followed exactly the same test protocol. For example I also tried a 20 minute ftp test and came up with a pulse of 175 @ 255 watts, which should translate to an ftp of 242 and LTHR 166bpm

canam73

That is quite a discrepancy. I tested out at 170 and my highest race HR is 176 for 47 minutes. Real situations can be much more motivating than tests, but your numbers seem to indicate something was wrong with the test session.

kingfishr

It can also be a question of definitions, in the test the LT was defined as 2mM whereas it seems other testers use the 4mM value, which is then what this test calls OBLA

canam73

Yes, I see. I hadn't blown up your chart, I was just looking at what you wrote. 4mM is a typical anaerobic threshold indicator. I have never had any official testing done so I can't relate my own data, but if your LT number is correct it seems the Friel LTHR test would generate a number closer to AT than LT.

fstshrk

There is pretty much no way your LTHR is 180. Your efforts are not high enough. It is very hard to measure LTHR outside. You need to do it inside in a controlled environment.

Campag4life

Why is it impossible to have a LTHR of 180 bpm?

chasm54

Aged 60. LT as determined by the Friel method (then aged 59) 162. And my average HR in last years races (mainly crits around one hour in length, but with a few two-hour roads races) was also in the low 160s, so that seems broadly consistent. Max HR, as nearly as I can judge, seems to be about 10% - 12% above that.

rpenmanparker 

I think you misconstrue the meaning of the 220-age formula. It does not predict anyone's heart rate. It provides a close estimate of the AVERAGE max heart rate of folks that age an DOES account for fitness and all the other variables you mentioned AS PART OF THE AVERAGE. There is no way to know how far away from the average anyone is, so there is no way to predict someone's max heart rate from a formula. Just semantics? Perhaps, but the difference in meaning is very significant. Basically all max heart rates are normal in that they are contributors to the average. But in order to know how likely it is for anyone to be at or very close to the average, you would have to know the size of the standard deviation of the max heart rates of the population. A newer formula for max heart rate of 211-(0.7 X age) has been proposed with a standard deviation of 7-11 bpm depending upon age. So assuming 10 bpm for the standard deviation, around 1 in 20 people would have a heart rate outside of the 40 bpm range defined by the formula result +/- 2 standard deviations. The only way to know where to train yourself according to % of max heart rate is to be tested.

rpenmanparker 

What's max heart rate if LTHR has you going as hard as you can? Is it that for LTHR you go as hard as you can sustain for a set time period while max heart rate has you going harder and harder until you can't go any longer?

on the path

Mr. Friel's method of determining LTHR sounds pretty casual and unscientific to me. And he's the expert? No wonder I'm so confused about this.

How does one determine "as hard as you can"? How does one know there aren't a few beats per minute (or more) available? Seem to me the only safe way this can be determined is indoors, on a trainer. Then one could push to failure without having a serious repercussions (i.e. crashing).

For the record, I just turned 59. I have no idea what my LTHR is. I've seen my HR in the 170s and 180s recently. I know I can sustain HRs in the 160s for 30 minutes or so. Maybe I can sustain higher HRs, I really don't know and so far haven't come up with a reason to find out.

Willbird

I have been back riding serious like since June 1 this year, rode a decent amount a few other times around 20 years ago.

BUT IMHO it was not terribly difficult after a few months of riding to have a feel for an effort level I could sustain for 30 minutes, and then take the LTHR as the average of the last 20 of that 30 minutes.

I came up with "around 150" and set my zones from that, need to retest but have not gotten around to it.

Being off a "little" is honestly probably not a big deal really if we retest and refine the number once a month as suggested.

"Crashing" should not be even remotely possible :-)...you have the first 10 minutes of the 30 to ramp up, then 20 minutes steady state as far as HR goes.

Bill

chasm54

LTHR has you going at the highest rate you can sustain for about an hour, it's roughly the same effort level as would give you your functional threshold power were you using a power meter. (Yes, before anyone objects, I know this is very approximate and not strictly equivalent). Your max HR is what it says, it's your max. Try to sustain it for more than a minute or so and you'll puke.

EDIT. For comparison, my LTHR is about 162, my max around 180. I'm old.

Derby

Age 45...my LTHR is 173 with a max of around 192.

Coachtj Cormier

. You need to do it inside in a controlled environment.[/QUOTE]

While a controled enviroment is a very good way to measure LT. It can be done outside very easily.
I've done it many times for clients.
We've come along way in taking the lab out side. A power meter and Blood lactate analzer are all you need.
Hell you can skip the PM(though you get a better idea with one)and use HR.

BoSoxYacht

46 years old, 178 LTHR

I asked how you found your LTHR just to determine there was no flaw in your method.

Campag4life

I figured the debate would rage about how to determine LTHR which influences values. This is inevitable and yes there is noise in some if not most poster's methods. Many can't agree on technique either and what constitutes hard riding for 30 minutes...kill yourself hard or just fast and not kill yourself hard. In fact above alone is probably the difference for me. I can comfortably ride at 175 bpm. I look down and its just a number in fact...not a threshold. So I believe 180 is probably closer to my LTHR and 200 for my max HR which I don't hit because I shut down when shooting in the 190's and not because I am spent....just don't want my heart to beat that fast.
Thanks BoSox.

Reynolds 

Last time I checked, about 2yrs ago at 61, my LTHR was around 176 and my max 190 IIRC.