Integrated Seat Posts - will I regret it?
 

I've put in an order for a Defy 2015 Advance SL 1. It's the model with the integrated seat post (ISP). I've never had a ISP bike before. Will I regret it? Are the limitations (lack of adjustability) too large to overcome the benefits?

I"m having doubts about the ISP. I don't plan to sell the bike after i've got it - it will be my last road bike.

Has anyone owned an ISP bike and regretted it?

One of my bikes has an ISP and I don't regret it. The biggest regret would be if you cut it too short, so don't. Since you don't care about resale, it's only important that the bike fits you. Most ISP bikes have a small amount of adjustment in the design to account for differences in saddle and pedal stack heights.

The only other problem I can think of is that an ISP frame may not fit in a bike case for traveling/shipping.

Yes.
I cut it twice and its still too short!

Integrated seat post sounds like a very bad idea to me.

An ISP can make for a harsh ride. This is the main reason most bikes have moved away from 31.8 back to 27.2 seatposts also.

I wouldn't own a bike with one.

Yes, bad idea.

Just see to it that you don't cut it too short. Buy a carbon blade and be careful and you're fine.

I thoroughly enjoy my Propel Advanced SL. Best ride I've had so far. Not a problem on comfort. I have 112 miles in 3 weeks in another Ironman and I do not get beaten up by the bike at all. Longest one day ride has been 135 miles for my 64th birthday ride.

20mm worth of adjustment shims came with the bike. Shipping can be an issue.

Will be killed on the bike or keeping it until I die since it is so much fun.

I don't see a problem. There is adjustability in the seat mounting head that goes over the ISP. Set that all the way down on the ISP so that you cut the post the least possible. As for comfort, many are riding oval and/or large diameter posts of the traditional kind anyway. I ride a round 31.6 mm post on my Ti bike. No issues. I say go for it.

I don't see the point.

Another "two kinds of people" debate. They are so common on the 41.

Actually that is not the case. An ISP should give a more compliant ride over a standard inserted seat post. It's a one piece carbon design at the junction point of where the top tube meets the seat post. With a standard inserted seat post you have two pieces of carbon which will have less flex when paired next to each other.

Giant and and trek have also stated the same with their 6-7 series frames/ advanced SL frames over their lower end models. You can see this in video demos of the new defy and videos of a 6 series Domane over a 4. That's why trek uses that weird seat mast design. Treks seat mast design looks weird but gives the user a ton more flexibility then all other designs but is still a little hampered if you need to cut the ISP and cut it to short.

op,
the ISP has its benefit which are compliance and the fact that more then likely no friends will be able to test ride your bike. Only thing is it hampers resale value, but not all the time. If you have exceptionally long legs for your height, then the ISP isn't being cut much. If you have a longer torso, then resale value goes out the door. Most ISP designs allow for a decent amount of adjustments. Of course trek's design has the most flexibility, I know giant allows an additional 3" of movement upwards if it's cut to short.

i ride a bike with an ISP and I noticed from going from to an ISP was compliance. Same models bike, it wasn't so harsh and abusive on my body. I'm 5'11 with an inseam of 33" so my ISP isn't cut much.

One piece of advice. Invest a little money to have the LBS fit your seat height and make the cut. That way it is on them. If a mistake is made, they will be on the hook for it. Just be sure to let them know you want the minimum amount cut off. Also be sure what they are recommending feels right to you.

So, there is no easily demonstrated point. Thanks for answering my question.

I have a Look 695 with ISP. Not concerned with resale value, but also only cut 1/2 a cm off. Took about 15 seconds. Look makes spacers and what they call elastomers with variable softness to control the ride quality. No hesitation on buying another bike with ISP, though not likely to ever need another bike of this quality.

Different thickness of cycling shoe soles, or different pedals even, will require some adjustment. Integrated seat makes that impossible.

That's not really true, since all that I know of come with spacers for changes. My ISP giant could take up to 2cm of spacers.

That said most lower level pro and elite teams use standard seat post models of high end bikes due to transportation issues.

Having had a couple of ISP bikes I've gone back to standard seat posts because it does indeed seem pointless to me. The difference between an ISP giant and a version with a similarly shaped extractable post is at best modest. I've seen issues with a couple of different bikes with the head sitting properly once the clear coat underneath wore away. Saddle changes can increase to a significant height difference, and if you have any concerns with resale, unless you're tall, it can hurt your ability to sell.

There are easily demonstrated points, but they only matter to those who care about those things. Lower weight for a build using an ISP. If you don't care, see, it just doesn't convince you. Better flexibility with the ISP. Neat appearance. The points are easily demonstrable but only to those who care about those things. Same on the other side of the argument.

The Defy 2015 SL will be more compliant - simply because the defuse design seat mast is designed to be able to rock back/forth. There'll be less 'defuse' action with the standard slide in seat post - thus the standard seat post will be less compliance. Although with the Defy 2015 advance they are carbon too so it's not too bad.

I really like the what the SL brings to the table but there's such a great fear in me in regards to being lock-down with the lack of adjustability of the ISP.

I'm using the ISM Adamo Attack - it's an amazing seat - the only one that's able to remove all my perineum pain. While I've got longer legs the Adamo is a taller seat so it will negate my longer legs advantage.

And now that the seat post height is so critical with an ISP - isn't determining the optimal seat post height a very protracted exercise - it's easier with the standard seat post where u can raise/lower the height. But with the ISP you pretty much need to be able to know the optimal seat height at cutting time.

Another question - are the little adjustments really enough for all the possible options the same rider will face? - shoes, pedal stack height - don't these sometimes can add up to quite a lot of height changes?

I don't see myself selling the bike in the near future - this would be THE bike for me (really!) - it's lightweight 7.4kg - has disc brakes and looks amazing. And being an average joe i hardly travel - if i do it'll be with the family, not with the bike.

Damn i want it so badly but I also don't want it to be a problem child.

Can I gather that everyone who's commented negatively so far about ISP has never owned an ISP bike?

The Defy 2015 SL 1 (ISP bike) weighs 7.4KG. The Advance Pro 1 (with standard seat post) weighs 7.9kg. So there's an increase of 0.5kg if i went with the standard seat post version.

They are not lighter. There are threads over on ww documenting how to customize an ISP to get the weight down.

They are not more flexible than a flexible seat post you can select yourself.

Make up a personal-value argument if you insist, but please use points that are at least objectively true.

Correct. I have not owned one. I've listened to the advice of those who have and avoided the design.

Yeah, I've seen lots of new high end bikes with a 27.2 seatpost. A few years ago, the conventional wisdom was that seatposts just didn't affect ride comfort at any noticeable level, either aluminum or carbon posts. Now, just in the last year, all the bike review sites can tell the difference between 31.8 and 28.2 posts.

The bikes all have newer model saddles, and some have 25c tires. Both of those things would make a bigger difference than a seatpost.

with propriety designs, not all seat post fit. maybe that's a manufacturers design flaw, but to say you can just go grab a flexible seat post to address the issue isn't always true.

You asolutely right that they all make a difference. But it's the sum of the differences we are talking about here. How low of a psi can you go before you start effecting performance? The point of a flexible/more compliant design is that you don't have to make adjustments to other parts of the bike and its built into the frame.

an ISP is not for everyone. But it's pretty ignorant to say a design is flawed if you haven't experienced it.

i travel with my bikes, my scicon bag doesn't require me to drop or remove the seat post.