Fully automated shifting
 

A review of Bioshift: Hands-on with the Bioshift Automated Bike Shifting System | DC Rainmaker

Amazing tech. Only the beginning. Over time it will be a learning computer adapting to riders habits and become even more intuitive....more or less mimicking the intuition of the rider when determining to shift. Then there is Sram's wireless that no doubt Shimano is also working on but aren't talking about which will change when auto shift will be adapted. Engineers hard at work.

Nothing this well developed (far along I mean) is going away. Perhaps not the specific devices yet, but as far as the concept is concerned, I say, "Done and done!"

Not really enthusiastic about electronic shifting until it comes with a generator hub and takes rechargeable AA batteries. I don't want to have a ride ended due to a dead battery (dead cyclecomputer or phone batteries have never stopped me riding) or chasing down an obscure replacement battery 20 years later to keep my bike running.

As far as the automated part, see my posts in the other thread. I've only found automated gear changing to decrease enjoyment.

Now, if this could be done with an efficient CVT and I have a knob to dial my desired cadence that may be interesting.

Meh...Only makes cycling an ever more expensive hobby for increasingly diminishing returns.

Most people who can afford a $2000 electronic gruppo and the $1000 powermeter "fees", on top of the bike itself and the other equipment (read: spending more on riding a single bike than the value of their car)...hopefully already know how to shift. The people who really need tech like this, as in *need* as in "are clueless how to shift properly", are the ones who will never be able to afford it (or want to afford it: sticker shock) and all the necessary side equipment to make it work.

The depths of one's pockets has nothing to do with their aptitude. Also, do you really think that this isn't going to penetrate lower price points? I think think that it's silly to assume that it won't. That's not to say that it's going to be on Wally World bikes two seasons from now, but I could foresee it getting in to that entry-level enthusiast price bracket.

I think it is silly to assume it will.

Bike prices, bike equipment, and bike gear prices in the last decade have only gone one direction. Higher and higher and higher. First gas prices were blamed, then when the fuel prices went down it was revealed what was really going on: jacked up prices simply because they could. Power meter prices have been locked in for a long while now. Electronic gruppos have locked in as well.

So no, it isn't going to penetrate to lower price points. AAMOF, the "lower price points" are only going to go up. Hell, entry road bike prices have doubled in the last decade. And as I said, prices are only going to go up.

Where you are wrong is if you deny auto shift tech you deny the existence of Di2 and EPS and Sram's forthcoming wireless shifting tech. It is here. Auto shift is basically just software + PM. This tech will accompany virtually every Di2 bike in the next 5 years and be part of the price of the package.
No question.

So you don't see the big picture. A kid or adult can still build a fixie with no brakes. He/she can also ride one of these when the time comes. Not everybody can afford a Corvette, Porsche or BMW. This will cost much less. I like mechanical shifting btw but when this hits the market after two years, I will probably buy it for the simple reason there is very little downside to electric shifting some up side. And when cruising through town or on a long leisurely ride, I would have no problem letting the bike shift. I may prefer if in the heat of the battle to shift manually but even then would depend on how good auto shifting gets and I believe over time it will be excellent.

Btw, I also see a future of integrated motors in the 500-1000W range that can also be integrated right into the bike based upon improved battery technology. This will turn an average rider into a CAT1 or a very old man into an average rider. That day will come as well.

I don't know if it just makes you feel good about yourself or what, but the biggest mistake so commonly made about automatic shifting (auto or bike) is that it is for the inept or lazy. I suppose we could still be hand cranking our Model T's to start them if it weren't for the those same folks. What BS!

I now how to shift. You know how to shift. The peloton knows how to shift. It ain't rocket science. But this automatic shifting, well that just might be. Do it however you want, but have the common courtesy to keep your disrespect for others to yourself instead of shouting it out in a pathetic attempt to lift up your own image.

E bikes are here already.


Kinda takes the fun out of it though.

You should read many of the rants online about electronic shifting. Specifically updating firmware to enable features. It is plain and simply a nightmare, with more exceptions to rules than rules. And to make matters even better, the official documentation from Shimano (I've read it to help a roadie mate with Di2 firmware) is laughably horrendous and unmaintained (the manuals for E-Tube have not been updated since 2012). The software toolset for Di2 for example is written for .Net 3 and no later. To put that in perspective, you need an unpatched un-updated Windows machine from 2008 (IIRC) just to run the Di2 toolset according to Shimano's own instructions.

And to make matters better, Shimano has been through firmware updates bricking people's setups to force them to buy entire new gruppos and not just parts.


Very little downside. My. Foot. After a long while helping the roadie mate figure out how to update his Di2 firmware, I promised myself I'd always stay with mech shifting.

Really? I ride with a guy occasionally with one. He designed it and it has a range of 125 miles. Its also as big as a barge.
Not what I am talking about. I am talking about a light road bike with integrated motor and light battery built into the frame of the bike. Virtually transparent. Take the fun out of it? To me riding in the A group is fun and this will put more into the A group.

I didn't know you felt that way. I know you talk about that technology. I just never realized you like the idea for your own personal enjoyment. I have been advocating this for quite a while. I see it as the equivalent of the handicap in golf. I would not be trying to trick anyone into thinking I am a better rider than I am. I would just want to be able to ride comfortably with my stronger friends regarding both distance and speed. Just like in golf my friends and I would all be doing the best we could and getting a similar workout. I would just be able to keep up and enjoy the company instead of being a mile behind or forcing them to slow down. The concept is especially attractive for folks like me with some real physical "handicap" like damaged heart and performance-limiting medications. Sure makes sense to me.

Wasn't there a hubbub a year or so ago about a pro using an integrated motor that hid in the downtube?

Anyway, my feeling is if you don't have the power in your own legs to hang with the A group, you just don't belong there and need to ride the B group. B group riding is fun too.

The counterpoint is many with electric shifting don't struggle with your problems and love it. Btw, I am a fan of mechanical shifting. So your argument reminds me of the vast sea of computer users that always get laden down with computer issues whereas others a bit more enlightened or even lucky don't have these issues and the benefit of a PC far exceeds its downside or not having one. Basically your view is somewhat of a luddite which btw has some credence. Technology can be a slippery slope. Keep in mind, electric shifting is in its infancy. Ten years from now it will only get better...just like mechanical index shifting has...and brakes...and wheels....and frames...and saddles...and handlebars....and helmets....everything in fact.
What will be an even more slippery slope will be wireless electric shifting. There is a reason that Sram and Shimano haven't already released it. Not easy to get it just right and will probably take 5 more years after it is released.

There is no belonging. No medals are awarded on the club ride. If everything is a competition to you, I see your point. You may love the status you get from being able to hang with a higher level group. For me it is about folks exercising together, and how good a workout can I get. If I can ride with friends who are stronger than me without slowing them down, I see that as a huge benefit. YMMV

But not everybody feels like you. I don't. Not all A group rides are the same. B group rides for me are a bit boring and I am no longer young. But some A group rides turn into flesh eating contests. :) That's where having a bit of assistance may help. Hey it may turn into a Harley thing. Guys on $15K e-roadbikes pacelining at 30 mph whenever they want...will need a motor to keep up.

Yup something like that...only more efficient with a lighter and higher power battery which is few years away and the bike is designed with the motor already in there...not an add on. Electronics has really changed the landscape for how this power is added which can be seamless.

Because they never try to screw with the firmware.

So long as you have a 6770 gruppo and don't want to alter how the shifting works (enabling multishift for a big feature update example), you'll probably be fine.

Shimano has shown that like Garmin they can make amazing widgets and spend millions on R&D to do so....and then completely jack up the firmware and software support. And in 5 years it has only gotten worse and not better. Shimano especially has tried to lock down their systems even more. Ten years from now it won't be any better based on the last 5 years. It'll be worse. I say that as someone who knows what he is talking about and has had to work with the tech. Manuals not updated in years, software tools that aren't even supported to run on a computer that isn't 5 years old and completely unpatched....and you think in 10 years it'll magically get better?

Well, you're an optimist I'll give you that.


You'd better read up on who the luddites were...because I'm fairly certain leveraging official software tools to do officially supported operations does not a luddite make.

I agree with you here. Better said that those who are willing to consider buying a $2k gruppo and $1k powermeter probably already know how to shift. There will be a market for the beginner rider with deep pockets though. He was inspired by hearing about the Tour de France but struggles with shifting on his first test ride and the salesman shows him the autoshifting bike. The $10K pricetag is ok so he puts it on his credit card and the bike is light so it's easy to lift into the back of his Porsche Cayenne...

Those with normal budgets who are clueless how to shift may actually be better served by a wide ratio 1x10 or 1x11 setup that offers a good ratio spread and simplified shifting. But, more gears = more better so beginners aren't often steered that way.

Really bad software support tools are typical of hardware companies. That kind of thing gets built as an afterthought. Don't expect it to change.

Don't we already have 5 pages of this ?

http://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...nsmission.html

Or is this something different ?

Wut. Compare CF frames from a decade ago to what's available now and tell me that they haven't gotten better while prices have decreased. Power meter prices have been dropping, too, while getting lighter and better - the other day someone posted a deal for a ~$520 PTap G3 ANT+ hub, Stages have hit the market at $699 retail and a few other competitors are hoping to enter the market in the sub-$500 category, as well.

But yes - let's trot out that ol' "they're charging more because they can!" trope. Anyone in the business will tell you that it's a highly competitive market with very tight margins - if that weren't the case, other players would enter the market and undercut the competition in short order.

It's the case with driving in America when compared to places such as Europe and Asia. If more Americas was using a manual, there would be less road carnage caused by cell phone wielding drivers. That right hand would be getting some much needed fitness.... from shifting. :)