GlennR

Carbonfiberboy 

I ride a tandem in the urban environment of the wet PNW. I've done it a lot with many different models of tires. I like to think I'm something of an expert on getting flats, having had probably hundreds of them over the years with every tire brand I've tried. I've had 5 flats in 50 miles, each from a different cause. I threw both tires away after that ride and they weren't that old. Fancy tires, too.

Yes, the more little cuts you get in a tire like a GP4K, the more frequently you'll flat. I don't know why, but it's true. In general, the softer the rubber and the "stickier" it is, the more flats you'll get especially in the wet. There's a compromise between sticking to the road and getting flats. Everyone can choose their own level. I toss 'em when they start to flat like that. I've tried repairing the little cuts with super and Gorilla glue, which extends the life a little, but not much.

My theories are that something happens as we wear a tire to make it more susceptible to cuts and thus flats. Maybe the rubber further down is different from the rubber on the surface of a new tire? Or maybe the flat we wear on a rear tire makes it more susceptible to cuts? Or maybe the micro surface texture of a tire changes? But for sure, the longer I run a tire, the more frequent the cuts become and the more frequently that tire will flat. I've never run a tire down to the cords. They get tossed before that.

Leinster

I once took a gatorskin through the rubber and the cords and had to flag down a biker to borrow his switchblade to cut up the blown-out tube for a boot. I've been a bit more vigilant about inspecting the wear on my tires since.

Alias530

Anyone using the 4000S II? How many miles are you guys getting out of them?

I've always run Gatorskins and swapped to these about 600 miles ago and the wear indicators are almost gone from the rear already. Brilliant tire but I don't imagine keeping the rear beyond 1,000 miles. I always wear out the rear, swap the front to the rear, and put a fresh tire up front so my best tire is always up front where it matters most. I can't imagine there's a big difference in total miles of usage out of a set by doing it this way. I'll replace a single tire more often but never both at the same time due to wear.

rpenmanparker 

Can't say. I don't keep track of any aspect of how far I ride. What's the point?

Alias530

If you pony up for higher end components and they don't end up lasting as long as you expected, it might affect future purchases. I tend to overthink things but if something "better" lasts half as long for maybe 5-10% better performance, I might not be willing to pay double next time around. Just throwing numbers out but the point is valid...

Leinster

The gatorskins I wore through had been on for years, but I honestly couldn't tell you their mileage. Very much pre-Strava days, but I wasn't riding nearly as regularly as I do now.

Completely right about the price/performance/longevity equation. There are certain "consumables" on a bike where if you get less than x mileage, the price can start to add up. A chain that stretches after 1000-1500 miles, bar tape that frays at the edges after 6 months, cleats that wear down way too early etc.

FLvector

+1 It goes beyond tracking the life expectancy of components, tires, etc. Some people have goals for either training or riding in general. Most people I ride with can tell you how many miles they've ridden this week and their target for the year.

rpenmanparker 

Sure, but for me it is too much trouble to worry about it. I like GP 4000 S II tires, so I ride them. Sometimes they last a long time, sometimes they don't. I like value for my money, but can't be bothered to track mileage on every bike consumable. If I can't sense the value proposition intuitively, then it just isn't going to happen any other way either.

By the way, do you have any idea what is the origin of the phrase, "pony up"? It goes way back in American English, but I seriously doubt 1% of the population could tell you where it comes from. No fair looking it up. Clue: it has nothing to do with horses.

Alias530

Agreed, I track my mileage by bike constantly. Strava takes care of most of it but still.

rpenmanparker 

Meh. It all comes out in the wash. You ride what you ride, you spend what you spend. As long as it's fun, then it's all good.

Alias530

Tracking it has motivated me to ride extra, so it's worth it from that perspective. Setting a goal and deciding to blow that goal out of the water has me on track to beat my goal by more than 50% by year end.

rpenmanparker 

I'm glad you are exceeding your goals as that sort of thing seems to be important to you. For me, not so much.

Alias530

Lol, you seem rather haughty about the fact you don't have goals.

rpenmanparker 

Not haughty. Just extremely content. We're talking about riding a bike for fun, not setting out our life's course. Even with your cycling record for the year you still need $4 bucks to get a latte. Can't anything just be about doing whatever feels right on a given day? Do you also have a goal for how many times to poop a day? Loosen up a bit. It's very pleasant.

And you never answered my question about "pony up".

Alias530

I have no idea where "pony up" came from. My health/fitness (the motivation for tracking) is more important to me than caring about the obscure history of a phrase.

FLvector

You are belittling those that actually set some goals of increasing miles, fitness and speed, rather than taking your la-te-da attitude of going out and tooling on your bike. It seems odd coming from someone who admits he's a weight weenie, has a few bikes in the 15 lbs range, yet doesn't care about being aero, climbing or improving performance. Its like having a Lamborghini and never going over 30 mph. It obviously occupies your time, gives you a challenge to see how light you can get your ride, but what difference does it make if you tool around on a 14 lb or a 20 lb bike if you never push your limits? Tracking mileage and performance as a goal has much more significance than how light can I make my bike if I'm never going to push my limits. Hmmm, I feel like I'm feeding a troll.

rpenmanparker 

No belittling. What a cynical interpretation. I am challenging them to view life a little differently. How is that wrong?

Actually you are the troll here. What's wrong with my attitude if it makes me happy? I'll tell you what's wrong with it: it doesn't validate your world view. That cannot be allowed.

I like light bikes. I don't have to have a reason or ride them like I'm training for the TdF. Pushing your limits is highly overrated. I know, because I do it all the time. I never said I didn't. I said I didn't have goals for pushing my limits. And I said I didn't keep a record of it. On any given day it is what it is. If I feel like pushing, I do. If I don't, I don't. Tomorrow is another day.

And to Alias530: health and fitness improvements top out at very modest levels of exertion. Don't assign health and fitness as the reasons for beating the crap out of yourself on a daily basis. That is just OCD.

Dunbar

Dude, you like making your bike(s) lighter for no good reason. We like tracking miles and getting stronger for no good reason. Give it a rest.

rpenmanparker 

Whew, I am glad we got that cleared up. Everybody is happy just as it should be. Who could ask for anything more?

jimincalif

I put new GP 4000 S IIs on 23mm rims back in June. No flats until November, then two flats on the back in 3 weeks, several good nicks in the rubber in various places, so I tossed the back tire with about 2800 miles on it. Still had some life left based on the wear indicators. I'm about 205 lbs FWIW.

vesteroid

I ride the 4000s and have for years now. when they start flatting I replace them. Not worth the frustration to me for the 60 bucks.

As far as the claim that fitness improvements top out at modest efforts, well, keep on believing that if it makes you sleep better, but its clearly untrue. Of course constant flogging is not the answer either, but the myth of the low level fat burning endurance is just that a myth.

rpenmanparker 

Cardiac fitness for health reasons and cardiac fitness for ultimate athletic capability are very different things. I am talking about the difference between living longer and riding faster/longer. Your heart doesn't require a world class competitor's training regimen to be kept healthy.

Dunbar

Give it a rest man. Stop telling other people how they should spend their exercise time.

rpenmanparker 

If you don't like my information, just ignore it. People have been doing that with the truth since the beginning of civilization. You should be able to see that I have only been expressing my preferences, not imposing them on anyone. I have been accused of belittling others and now telling others what to do. All because I had the temerity to say how I feel about exercise. And all the while saying good for you if you have realized your goals. Open up your eyes and your mind.