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Bladed spokes vs standard, is there a noticeable difference ?

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Bladed spokes vs standard, is there a noticeable difference ?

Old 12-22-14, 08:20 AM
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CNC2204
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Bladed spokes vs standard, is there a noticeable difference ?

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Old 12-22-14, 08:24 AM
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Not noticeable as a rider, but it shows up on wind tunnel results.
I built my race wheels with bladed spokes, but don't care much about what I ride on for non-race wheels.
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Old 12-22-14, 08:25 AM
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Instant cat upgrade
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Old 12-22-14, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
Not noticeable as a rider, but it shows up on wind tunnel results.
I built my race wheels with bladed spokes, but don't care much about what I ride on for non-race wheels.
Yes, it shows up

All one watt of it...

But it does show up...
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Old 12-22-14, 08:56 AM
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The operative word is noticeable, and the answer is no.
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Old 12-22-14, 09:05 AM
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The difference is very noticeable when the wheels are being built.
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Old 12-22-14, 09:07 AM
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I did a blind ride comparison once, and well, being blinded, you can imagine how badly that worked out.

But seriously...a noticeable difference? I do wonder if there would be any differences in feel when doing back-to-back comparisons of wheels built the same aside from spokes? Wheels do feel differently, right, but how much of feel is attributable to spokes? I don't know.
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Old 12-22-14, 09:10 AM
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I believe CX-Rays are better in the wind tunnel, but they are not quite bladed. They are more like tear drop shaped.
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Old 12-22-14, 09:23 AM
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The squirrels don't suffer as much with bladed spokes.
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Old 12-22-14, 09:24 AM
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Very very noticeable but only if you stick your finger in them while they're spinning.
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Old 12-22-14, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht View Post
The difference is very noticeable when the wheels are being built.
My thought exactly! But is having a handle to prevent spoke twist worth an extra $2 each? Now that is the question.
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Old 12-22-14, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
My thought exactly! But is having a handle to prevent spoke twist worth an extra $2 each? Now that is the question.
The CNspoke 424s are less than $2 each.
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Old 12-22-14, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Is having a handle to prevent spoke twist worth an extra $2 each? Now that is the question.
It depends on who's paying for the spokes.
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Old 12-22-14, 09:50 AM
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Old 12-22-14, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by telebianchi View Post
The squirrels don't suffer as much with bladed spokes.

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Old 12-22-14, 10:19 AM
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When I fist started building my own wheels, (predating CX-Rays) I had used Hoshi blades and Wheelsmith AE14 oval spokes. Then switched to CX-Rays almost exclusively. After a few sets of wheels, other than the initial building, I did not feel like there was much point in spending so much for spokes and now I either use Sapim Laser, DTSwiss Revolution or DTSwiss Competition, depending on my target usage. I have not missed the oval/bladed spokes one bit while riding.

For the young whippersnappers that don't know about Hoshi, here is an image of their profile. It was the only way to build a bladed wheel without slotting the hubs.
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Old 12-22-14, 10:21 AM
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So how which spokes are the hardest to build with? Bladed spokes or the 1.5mm double butted spokes? Something else?
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Old 12-22-14, 10:27 AM
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The Pillar type bladed spokes (common on Mavic wheels) make a big difference in gusty cross winds. I hate them!!!

Originally Posted by Jarrett2 View Post
So how which spokes are the hardest to build with? Bladed spokes or the 1.5mm double butted spokes? Something else?
Yeah, the 1.5mm double butted are probably the most difficult, but not all that difficult. I use them all the time. Bladed make it easy to avoid windup. The others just require a little more attention.

Ovalized (forged) spokes like the CX Rays are primarily superior because they have the longest fatigue life of any spoke out there (because of the work hardening).

Last edited by Clipped_in; 12-22-14 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 12-22-14, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Jarrett2 View Post
So how which spokes are the hardest to build with? Bladed spokes or the 1.5mm double butted spokes? Something else?
An experienced wheel builder will say neither. But us amateur builders will be faster building with bladed especially if you use one of these tools to minimize spoke wind-up.

It will prevent the spoke from winding while bringing it up to tension. But if you are diligent about stress relief it is not really necessary. I still use the Park Tool (1st image) when I am truing a bladed spoke wheel after it has been built.
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Old 12-22-14, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Bunyanderman View Post
I believe CX-Rays are better in the wind tunnel, but they are not quite bladed. They are more like tear drop shaped.
And again.

One whole watt.
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Old 12-22-14, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by WheresWaldo View Post
An experienced wheel builder will say neither. But us amateur builders will be faster building with bladed especially if you use one of these tools to minimize spoke wind-up.

It will prevent the spoke from winding while bringing it up to tension. But if you are diligent about stress relief it is not really necessary. I still use the Park Tool (1st image) when I am truing a bladed spoke wheel after it has been built.
Once again, spoke relief has absolutely nothing to do with preventing or fixing spoke windup. Spoke relieving is done by stressing the spokes, while unwinding happens when the rim is compressed to take stress off them. They are opposite processes and done for very different purposes. Confusing them is very common.
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Old 12-22-14, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Bunyanderman View Post
I believe CX-Rays are better in the wind tunnel, but they are not quite bladed. They are more like tear drop shaped.
That could be. I never examined them under a magnifying glass. Just from handling them I have always thought their cross section was more of a thin rectangle.
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Old 12-22-14, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Once again, spoke relief has absolutely nothing to do with preventing or fixing spoke windup. Spoke relieving is done by stressing the spokes, while unwinding happens when the rim is compressed to take stress off them. They are opposite processes and done for very different purposes. Confusing them is very common.
Nope, there is no way to separate the two, no matter how much you want to. Spoke wind-up is inevitable to some extant, stress relief removes the wind-up, but don't take my word for it:

"The higher the tension of the spokes, the more they twist and will remain that way. ... Corrective measures are carried out during the truing stage, by momentarily relieving the tension of each spoke by "pressing" the wheel. ... The wheel "stands" at last!" -- The Art of Wheelbuilding, Gerd Schraner
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Old 12-22-14, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by achoo View Post
It's not clear, was the wheel rotating or stationary? The wheel needs to be spinning for the claim to be relevant.
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Old 12-22-14, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
It's not clear, was the wheel rotating or stationary? The wheel needs to be spinning for the claim to be relevant.
And spinning fast
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