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Disk brakes in the pro peloton.

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Disk brakes in the pro peloton.

Old 12-30-14, 07:18 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by datlas View Post
You mean dopolina?
Mister BOB Dopolina.
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Old 12-30-14, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by pallen View Post
Do disks increase or decrease profit margins on bike sales? THAT is the question.
Correct
I couldnt agree more
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Old 12-30-14, 08:09 PM
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My favorite part:

That interest, at least for now, is mostly in non-racing applications. “We don’t see a big demand for a race bike with disc brakes in the marketplace,” said Meyer. But that could change, particularly if the pros began using the new technology.
Man, if we could just get the pros to pimp it, we could make the public want more of the rubbish they don't need!
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Old 12-30-14, 10:15 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by wvridgerider View Post
Correct
I couldnt agree more
Considering that the adoption of disk brakes will mean that the upgrade junkies will run to buy new bikes = Huge profits.
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Old 12-30-14, 10:33 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Leinster View Post
Manufacturers are already switching bikes over. Within 2-3 years of the UCI allowing them in the peloton, it'll be very hard to find a high level road bike with rim brakes.
People here have debated for the last 2-3 years if disc brakes will take over soon.
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Old 12-31-14, 04:57 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by cafzali View Post
Opinions will largely stay mixed on discs because, while they're superior in some situations, they're not in others. It's not going to be a "clear cut" situation, such as the shift from aluminum frames to carbon, or for pros the switch from alloy wheels to carbon wheels.

But just as the vast majority of recreational riders didn't adapt carbon wheels, there's nothing that says the majority of recreational riders are going to do with disc brakes. Many who are like me and are on their original set of brake pads despite riding 1,200 miles or more a year since the bike was acquired in 2011 just don't see the need.
A good summary. Agree. I really liked disks on my 29er versus larger caliper brakes required for fatter tired bikes, but I prefer calipers on my road bike. Nice to have the option though.
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Old 12-31-14, 04:59 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Jiggle View Post
My favorite part:



Man, if we could just get the pros to pimp it, we could make the public want more of the rubbish they don't need!
Yeah...and further, if the pros don't need it with much greater speeds including big descending mountain stages at 60 mph, why does the public need it?
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Old 12-31-14, 05:22 AM
  #33  
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Well, obviously discs are coming, and not because the peleton is begging for them. Because they aren't. The only question is will manufacturers phase out calipers. Not a big deal to me. My 1992 bike is still fine in 2014 and my 2012 bike will be fine until whenever I die or am not able to ride anymore.
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Old 12-31-14, 07:12 AM
  #34  
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Somebody please remind me what the downside is to a road bike with disc brakes other than a slight weight penalty (if any)??? I say bring them on! If you ride a bike with carbon wheels what's the number one cause for rim failure other than a direct impact? Answer= De-lamination of the brake track due to excessive braking which could lead to a serious crash. If you ride through a puddle deep enough for your wheels to get wet what happens to your stopping power (especially with carbon wheels)? Answer= Decreases stopping power significantly but if you have a rotor at the center of the wheel there's no change in braking (more predictable). If you have to stop fast to avoid any type of obstacle what usually happens to your rear wheel? Answer= locks up because the braking surface is so far out from the center of gravity leaving you with a flat spot and a need for a new tire where moving the braking surface to the hub provides much improved brake modulation as the spokes and rim will absorb the sudden change in momentum which will give you the rider more confidence to dive a little deeper into a corner or have greater closing speeds knowing the brakes will be predictable. And then there's looks, how many threads have been started asking how an anodized or carbon brake track looks after some use? I know some say who cares, it's a bike for gods sake but some of us take pride in the appearance of our bikes weather it be to show off or just because and with disc's the rims just look sexy! Road Bikes with Disc Brakes and Tubeless Tires are here to stay with technology improving every day so get on board or get passed my friend.
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Old 12-31-14, 08:08 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by dvdslw View Post
Somebody please remind me what the downside is to a road bike with disc brakes other than a slight weight penalty (if any)???
Answer = read the article
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Old 12-31-14, 08:11 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by pallen View Post
Do disks increase or decrease profit margins on bike sales? THAT is the question.
Probably neutral, but that is not the point. The point is that discs will boost bike sales, because you really can't properly get them without a special frame and wheels. So a whole new bike.
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Old 12-31-14, 09:19 AM
  #37  
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I don't get the point... my Dura Ace rim brakes stop better than my mechanical disc brakes on my cross bike. They don't stop as well as 203mm rotors and XT hydros on my mountain bike though
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Old 12-31-14, 09:21 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Probably neutral, but that is not the point. The point is that discs will boost bike sales, because you really can't properly get them without a special frame and wheels. So a whole new bike.
Yeah, that's a good point. Its like VHS to DVD.
I'm a pretty big fan of disc brakes though. Great for MTB, touring, etc. Might be over kill for lightweight road racing bikes, but if I'm going to have overkill somewhere, it would be brakes.
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Old 12-31-14, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by StanSeven View Post
Answer = read the article
No help
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Old 12-31-14, 10:47 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by dvdslw View Post
No help
You wanted to be reminded of the downsides other than being heavier. Other downsides are discussed in the article.
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Old 12-31-14, 10:50 AM
  #41  
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My training buddy has a Pinnarello with shimano hydraulic disc brakes, he is heavy and loves the stopping ability. I've never tried his bike since he is much taller than me. He has ENVE 3.4 wheels, and I see the logic in wearing out a cheap disc instead of expensive carbon rims.

If they start making lighter disc brake specific carbon rims, that could offset the weight gain in the hub and disc, and eventually disc brakes may be almost as light as rim brakes, but with the advanatage of not using your carbon rim as a wear part. I would go for it.
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Old 12-31-14, 11:10 AM
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they can boil the fluid and catastrophically fail
they can squeak really loud
they make wheel changes take longer
they can rub the pads
they can get bent rotors
they can break a line and be rendered useless
they can get air bubbles in line and be squishy
they are heavier
they need re-enforced, heavier forks
they tend to glaze the pads
they get contaminated easier
they require a wider wheel hub, frame spacing
they are less aero
you could die
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Old 12-31-14, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by bikebreak View Post
My training buddy has a Pinnarello with shimano hydraulic disc brakes, he is heavy and loves the stopping ability. I've never tried his bike since he is much taller than me. He has ENVE 3.4 wheels, and I see the logic in wearing out a cheap disc instead of expensive carbon rims.

If they start making lighter disc brake specific carbon rims, that could offset the weight gain in the hub and disc, and eventually disc brakes may be almost as light as rim brakes, but with the advanatage of not using your carbon rim as a wear part. I would go for it.
how much weight savings can be had at the brake track removal?

not much if you want to keep rim integrity.
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Old 12-31-14, 11:38 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Leinster View Post
Manufacturers are already switching bikes over. Within 2-3 years of the UCI allowing them in the peloton, it'll be very hard to find a high level road bike with rim brakes. Within 10 years, they'll be as rare on new bikes as downtube shifters are now. Tri/TT bikes may stick with the rim brakes for aero/"slowers not stoppers" reasons, but your Tiagra/Apex equipped $1000 road-bike-for-the-masses is going to have 11spd, compact, brifters, 25c tires, a sloping top tube and disc brakes because that is what the bike manufacturers will have in stock in mass quantities, and it's what the average punter with $1000 to spend on said bike will want.
I think this is where the smart money is, with the minor quibble that this is for the major manufacturers. Custom builders and smaller makes will probably have rim brakes available at the high end for a long while yet. But there's probably not a good business case for having equivalent high-end models available in disc and rim brake versions except maybe for a short transitional period. It'll depend on how enthusiastically consumers react to the new normal. Given the recent history of the industry, high-end bike sales will probably neither grow nor shrink very much as a result of going to disc brakes.

Originally Posted by K.Katso View Post
Didn't this topic get beaten to death less than a month ago?
And how.

Originally Posted by pallen View Post
Do disks increase or decrease profit margins on bike sales? THAT is the question.
Originally Posted by TheRef View Post
Considering that the adoption of disk brakes will mean that the upgrade junkies will run to buy new bikes = Huge profits.
You guys really don't understand how the bike business works, do you? The effect on margins will be minuscule; you gotta build bikes to a target price point, and you gotta make X amount on each bike, because that's how the bean counters do their thing at the big(er) companies. And the idea that bike industry profits depend on some ill-defined demographic of "upgrade junkies" is absurd. For disc brakes to result in "huge profits," there needs to be some large degree of pent-up demand for disc brakes that hasn't been met. That seems pretty unlikely. The kind of people who want the latest-and-greatest every year or every other year probably aren't waiting for disc brakes to come out before going and writing a big check every year. Not much is likely to change for the bottom line. For 15 years, the trend has been that unit sales decline while average selling price goes up. It's a pretty safe bet there's more of the same in store.

This image of the bike industry as being full of mustache-twirling robber barons is really pretty bananas. I marvel at the popularity of this fantasy, given how infamously hard it is to make a reliable profit in the bike business. You've got an industry of pretty normal, for-profit companies, and they are in fact trying to make a buck. Like most industries, some of those companies are run by unscrupulous hucksters, and lots are run by regular people who are doing what they love and want to make a living at it. It is in fact possible to make money and honestly believe that your new products are better than the older ones. Like any industry there are trends, some of which are driven by real technical innovation, some of which are driven by the ability to market a feature. An example of the latter, in my opinion, was the proliferation of mid-level bikes with aluminum main triangles and carbon fiber stays during approximately 2006-2012. An example of the former, again in my opinion, is disc brakes on the road. It's up to you, really. Vote with your wallet. If road discs are just a marketing trend, they won't stick and in a few years they'll go away.

Originally Posted by bt View Post
they can boil the fluid and catastrophically fail
they can squeak really loud
they make wheel changes take longer
they can rub the pads
they can get bent rotors
they can break a line and be rendered useless
they can get air bubbles in line and be squishy
they are heavier
they need re-enforced, heavier forks
they tend to glaze the pads
they get contaminated easier
they require a wider wheel hub, frame spacing
they are less aero
you could die
Good grief. Hyperbole much?
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Old 12-31-14, 11:43 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by bt View Post
they can boil the fluid and catastrophically fail
they can squeak really loud
they make wheel changes take longer
they can rub the pads
they can get bent rotors
they can break a line and be rendered useless
they can get air bubbles in line and be squishy
they are heavier
they need re-enforced, heavier forks
they tend to glaze the pads
they get contaminated easier
they require a wider wheel hub, frame spacing
they are less aero
you could die
Some really good points. I've certainly bent a rotor on the both MTBs, and the rear pads on one bike are currently contaminated and scream when it brakes. Changing the pads only works for a while. Also the point about front wheel change is correct. Folks will get used to it, but it will take longer than it currently does. Think about that guy on the road bike group ride that always arrives 3 minutes before roll-off and has to remount the front wheel. Will the group continue to wait like they might do today or tell him to ride with the "C" group?
I'm resigned that discs will happen because bike manufacturers have seen the advantage of out-dating recently purchased bikes with all the changes in the MTB world. They'd like to create the same model in the road bike world. Discs are one of those changes that will help create bike sales thereby affecting the bottom line.
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Old 12-31-14, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by grolby View Post
You guys really don't understand how the bike business works, do you? The effect on margins will be minuscule; you gotta build bikes to a target price point, and you gotta make X amount on each bike, because that's how the bean counters do their thing at the big(er) companies. And the idea that bike industry profits depend on some ill-defined demographic of "upgrade junkies" is absurd. For disc brakes to result in "huge profits," there needs to be some large degree of pent-up demand for disc brakes that hasn't been met. That seems pretty unlikely. The kind of people who want the latest-and-greatest every year or every other year probably aren't waiting for disc brakes to come out before going and writing a big check every year. Not much is likely to change for the bottom line. For 15 years, the trend has been that unit sales decline while average selling price goes up. It's a pretty safe bet there's more of the same in store.
In a tight margin business, a miniscule effect is still an effect. Small gains and all that, it's what wins Tours De France. I don't think disc brakes are going to make anyone with calipers or cantis rush out and replace what they have, especially if they've never had trouble with stopping before. But I think standardising a component across all bike ranges (discs for all, rather than disc for mtb/cross, canti for hybrid/touring, calip for road/tri) will slightly reduce costs for manufacturers, hence why, IMO, they'll push for it.
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Old 12-31-14, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by bt View Post
they can boil the fluid and catastrophically fail
they can squeak really loud
they make wheel changes take longer
they can rub the pads
they can get bent rotors
they can break a line and be rendered useless
they can get air bubbles in line and be squishy
they are heavier
they need re-enforced, heavier forks
they tend to glaze the pads
they get contaminated easier
they require a wider wheel hub, frame spacing
they are less aero
you could die
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Old 12-31-14, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by cruiserhead View Post
Maybe so, but every one of his points was valid.
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Old 12-31-14, 12:20 PM
  #49  
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I
Originally Posted by bt View Post
they can boil the fluid and catastrophically fail
they can squeak really loud
they make wheel changes take longer
they can rub the pads
they can get bent rotors
they can break a line and be rendered useless
they can get air bubbles in line and be squishy
they are heavier
they need re-enforced, heavier forks
they tend to glaze the pads
they get contaminated easier
they require a wider wheel hub, frame spacing
they are less aero
you could die
All good points. My current (favorite) bike is 2.5 years old. With Di2 it has been maintenance free. The only things I've done is charge the battery a few times, added air and replaced tires, and lubed. There's no comparison with maintenance on a mountain bike with disc brakes.
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Old 12-31-14, 12:30 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Maybe so, but every one of his points was valid.
cable brakes?
they can loosen and strip out the cable and catastrophically fail
they can squeak really loud
they can rub the pads
they can be affected by the slightest out of true rim
they can break a line and be rendered useless
they can glaze the rims and be ineffective
they tend to not work in wet
they get contaminated and chew through rims
they can glaze over and heat up, blowing a wheel out on a downhill and killing you instantly
they can fail out of nowhere and make you crash and become paralyzed
you could die walking your doggie
you could slip and fall from slick road cycling shoes and crack your head, killing yourself or becoming a vegetable

quit with the ridiculous drama.
it's a friggin disc brake
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