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Are disc brakes the future on road bikes?

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Are disc brakes the future on road bikes?

Old 02-19-15, 12:22 PM
  #326  
ColonelSanders
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Originally Posted by 2702 View Post
1k is about the upper range for most people to buy a bike. Past than range the improvement is slight to me. I am more impressed by my 1k Giant aluminum bike than my 2k Carbon Specialized hybrid. The difference is so slight that I no longer feel the need to pay more than 1k in the future for a bike. In fact my carbon Sirrus is going on sale soon.
Your experience here and decision to sell your carbon Sirrus, would make for a very interesting thread in the Hybrid forum.

There would be a few questions I would have for you.
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Old 02-19-15, 12:24 PM
  #327  
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Originally Posted by Fiery View Post
Having ridden my wife's hybrid for a couple of commutes, I must say I wish mini-V brakes were more videly used on road bikes.
Please forgive my ignorance here, but what is the difference between mini-V brakes and just regular V brakes?
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Old 02-19-15, 12:31 PM
  #328  
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Originally Posted by ColonelSanders View Post
Please forgive my ignorance here, but what is the difference between mini-V brakes and just regular V brakes?
Smaller, less weight, open less so some wider tires won't pass through, and have a different cable pull ratio than bigger v-brakes. I think the Giant Propel is using a variation on v-brakes (linear pull).
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Old 02-19-15, 01:14 PM
  #329  
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Originally Posted by ColonelSanders View Post
Your experience here and decision to sell your carbon Sirrus, would make for a very interesting thread in the Hybrid forum.

There would be a few questions I would have for you.
Msrp on the 14 Sirrus Carbon was 2199. The Giant Msrp was 1075. For average street riding- to the park, get some food, see the sun, exercise there was no way the Sirrus warranted double the price. Comfort was a wash, with bigger tires and lower pressure on the Giant it felt just as good as the Specialized. Speed- really no difference. Weight- the Giant is about 1 pound more.
My steel bike is more comfortable than both bikes and that one was only 800 bucks. When you dig in and get past a lot of the bloat in bikes with carbon this and that there is a lot of value not known to many because its not the in thing.
I am a steel bike convert all the way now.
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Old 02-19-15, 02:56 PM
  #330  
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Originally Posted by ColonelSanders View Post
Please forgive my ignorance here, but what is the difference between mini-V brakes and just regular V brakes?
Regular V-brakes ("linear pull") are incompatible with all other break levers (caliper, canti etc) because they require twice the amount of cable pull. This is the reason V-brakes have their distinct features. Which is primarily that they stop hard and have a different modulation, i.e. it takes almost no effort to lock up the wheels. Some people like it (I do), others don't because they instinctively brake as hard as they possibly can in emergency situations, which means going over the handlebars with V-brakes.

Mini-Vs are V-brakes with shorter arms, so that they work with regular break levers. They only make sense if you like the modulation behavior of V-brakes, but want to use road bike brake levers. For flatbar brake levers, regular V-brakes are superior for several reasons. Overall, this means Mini-Vs have a relatively small niche: road bikes don't have the necessary bosses, and cyclocross bikes don't use them because they need to be too close to the rim and get clogged with dirt too quickly in races. MTBs have moved to disc brakes, and commuter/touring bikes seem to go in that direction aswell.

Still, it's good they exist. Their direct competitor are cantilever brakes, which are very laborious to adjust and feel squishy, but offer more tire/fender clearance and are more tolerant of untrue wheels.
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Old 02-19-15, 03:15 PM
  #331  
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never ridden a hybrid, but yeah, I can't see putting alot of money in a hybrid. I think it's different if you're looking at a full roadbike, but certainly at some point cost increase is out of line with slight gains. My thought, I bought some pricey bikes, but the fact that they cost so much encourages me to get out and ride them. Did 5k miles last year, so for me it worked.

As to disc brakes, for me I just don't see the need, increased complexity over traditional brakes, just really not needed. IMHO

Originally Posted by 2702 View Post
Msrp on the 14 Sirrus Carbon was 2199. The Giant Msrp was 1075. For average street riding- to the park, get some food, see the sun, exercise there was no way the Sirrus warranted double the price. Comfort was a wash, with bigger tires and lower pressure on the Giant it felt just as good as the Specialized. Speed- really no difference. Weight- the Giant is about 1 pound more.
My steel bike is more comfortable than both bikes and that one was only 800 bucks. When you dig in and get past a lot of the bloat in bikes with carbon this and that there is a lot of value not known to many because its not the in thing.
I am a steel bike convert all the way now.
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Old 02-20-15, 01:04 AM
  #332  
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Originally Posted by RJM View Post
Smaller, less weight, open less so some wider tires won't pass through, and have a different cable pull ratio than bigger v-brakes. I think the Giant Propel is using a variation on v-brakes (linear pull).
Originally Posted by yipyipyip View Post
Regular V-brakes ("linear pull") are incompatible with all other break levers (caliper, canti etc) because they require twice the amount of cable pull. This is the reason V-brakes have their distinct features. Which is primarily that they stop hard and have a different modulation, i.e. it takes almost no effort to lock up the wheels. Some people like it (I do), others don't because they instinctively brake as hard as they possibly can in emergency situations, which means going over the handlebars with V-brakes.

Mini-Vs are V-brakes with shorter arms, so that they work with regular break levers. They only make sense if you like the modulation behavior of V-brakes, but want to use road bike brake levers. For flatbar brake levers, regular V-brakes are superior for several reasons. Overall, this means Mini-Vs have a relatively small niche: road bikes don't have the necessary bosses, and cyclocross bikes don't use them because they need to be too close to the rim and get clogged with dirt too quickly in races. MTBs have moved to disc brakes, and commuter/touring bikes seem to go in that direction aswell.

Still, it's good they exist. Their direct competitor are cantilever brakes, which are very laborious to adjust and feel squishy, but offer more tire/fender clearance and are more tolerant of untrue wheels.
Thanks for that info.
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Old 02-20-15, 01:06 AM
  #333  
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Originally Posted by 2702 View Post
Msrp on the 14 Sirrus Carbon was 2199. The Giant Msrp was 1075. For average street riding- to the park, get some food, see the sun, exercise there was no way the Sirrus warranted double the price. Comfort was a wash, with bigger tires and lower pressure on the Giant it felt just as good as the Specialized. Speed- really no difference. Weight- the Giant is about 1 pound more.
My steel bike is more comfortable than both bikes and that one was only 800 bucks. When you dig in and get past a lot of the bloat in bikes with carbon this and that there is a lot of value not known to many because its not the in thing.
I am a steel bike convert all the way now.
Your experience here really would make for a great topic in the Hybrid forum.
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Old 02-20-15, 09:47 AM
  #334  
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Originally Posted by zvez View Post

As to disc brakes, for me I just don't see the need, increased complexity over traditional brakes, just really not needed. IMHO
In a nutshell: That's it. End of story! No more needs to be said on the subject. The only time I ever wished for better braking, was when I was a kid, riding department-store BSO's with steel rims and cruddy calipers- and even then, only when it rained. Riding as an adult with good quality calipers and pads; and alloy rims, I have never ever said to myself "If only I had better brakes!". So there is NO reason to add complexity; cost; weight; and to alter the current wheel/frame standards, other than to try and make people want "the latest and greatest".
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Old 02-20-15, 10:40 AM
  #335  
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Yes - if you want better brakes
No - if cycling industry decides that they will make more money on selling new rims every few years instead.
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Old 02-20-15, 10:52 AM
  #336  
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Originally Posted by lopek77 View Post
Yes - if you want better brakes
No - if cycling industry decides that they will make more money on selling new rims every few years instead.
Because we know everyone here has worn down rims because of brake pads
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Old 02-20-15, 11:07 AM
  #337  
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Originally Posted by RJM View Post
Your argument is that one reason disks are better is becuase they modulate better and are more precise feeling through the limits. I'm asking if you ever had that problem on a road bike...feeling the limits, that is. I've never had it. Modulation of a road bike caliper brake, certainly a modern one, just isn't a problem.
I don't have a problem driving a car without power steering. Power steering is better.

Rim brakes work. Disc brakes work better. They require much less leverage at the DCL. Modulation is better simply because you have finer control through the lever stroke coupled with the less effort. Discs are consistent no matter the conditions.

Hydraulic discs are a dream. I rode a Mosaic this past weekend with the new Shimano ST-RS685....amazing. One finger emergency stopping.
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Old 02-20-15, 11:07 AM
  #338  
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Originally Posted by lopek77 View Post
Yes - if you want better brakes
No - if cycling industry decides that they will make more money on selling new rims every few years instead.
I'm not disputing other folks experience, but over 100,000 miles of cycling I have never worn out a rim. Of course I have replaced wheels over that time to get the latest and greatest, but I have never worn out a rim. DSFDF
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Old 02-20-15, 11:28 AM
  #339  
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Originally Posted by Stucky View Post
Modulation is fine for me with rim brakes. Modulation is not an issue. My point was that the more powerful the brake, the more likely one is to grab too much of it in a panic situation........

Sheesh, the way some of you guys talk about braking on bicycles, one would think that you ride at 200MPH. Stopping a total weight of c. 200 lbs at 25MPH does not require Formula-One or Locomotive technology. How many hipsters in your neck of the woods are riding with NO brakes, other than their chain and feet?

.....................

Like most other "advances" with bicycles: It may feel nicer....but it really doesn't do anything that it's predecessor couldn't. So when you squeeze that disc brake lever, you feel all kinds of instant sharp power, and think "Whoa! These things are good!" but in reality, the rim brakes already had more than enough power....but just feeling the excessive power of the discs is very noticeable, and since you can feel the difference, you think it is better.
Lol...a long and winding strawman. It isn't about feeling "nicer," it is about greater performance for a given effort; and your premise that they're entirely too powerful, therefore an unnecessary waste, as well as being hazardous because of sensitivity, speaks to your lack of practical experience with disc brakes. They perform far more consistently than rim brakes ever will, they require much less effort at the lever, and you are more "in touch," with the feel of your brakes due to the finer control which is the nature of the system.

Grabbing too much brake is an operator problem, learn your ride. When I panic stop it's rehearsed, I've practiced it. I know how to grab my brakes for maximum braking power without losing traction.

Don't get me started on hipsters. Thankfully they're contained in the wilds of Brooklyn and for the most part are scared of roadies. They gaze in primal fear like gazelles spotting a leopard when I roar by stoking my rippling guads. The girls dig it though. They appreciate a man whose physique would burst a pair of skinny jeans at the seams.

This isn't formula one/ locomotive technology. Locomotives have rheostatic/regenerative dynamic braking, as well as friction based systems, THAT would be incredible if built into a hub, lmao. Imagine??? hahahaha...

Hydraulics...hydraulics being applied, as they've been applied for over a century now, assist the human hand in applying greater mechanical advantage for a given effort. The result is finer, easier, more subtle, and reliable control.

Roadies are so anachronistic.
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Old 02-20-15, 11:57 AM
  #340  
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Disc brakes on road/cyclocross/gravel/touring bikes are as necessary as electronic shifting. It's a nice-to-have feature if you're into that kind of thing.
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Old 02-20-15, 12:06 PM
  #341  
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Originally Posted by UnfilteredDregs View Post
The girls dig it though. They appreciate a man whose physique would burst a pair of skinny jeans at the seams.
You got it wrong, dude.....chicks don't dig fat dudes.
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Old 02-20-15, 12:08 PM
  #342  
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Originally Posted by UnfilteredDregs View Post
I don't have a problem driving a car without power steering. Power steering is better.

Rim brakes work. Disc brakes work better. They require much less leverage at the DCL. Modulation is better simply because you have finer control through the lever stroke coupled with the less effort. Discs are consistent no matter the conditions.

Hydraulic discs are a dream. I rode a Mosaic this past weekend with the new Shimano ST-RS685....amazing. One finger emergency stopping.
They can easily make hydraulic actuated dual pivot calipers without changing the entire frame/ride of a road bike. I would say that is the best of both worlds.
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Old 02-20-15, 12:26 PM
  #343  
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
I'm not disputing other folks experience, but over 100,000 miles of cycling I have never worn out a rim. Of course I have replaced wheels over that time to get the latest and greatest, but I have never worn out a rim. DSFDF
And that encapsulates it perfectly. In my experience in marketing, the "value proposition" for something that will become a new wave is either: 1) something that's high-tech, got all kinds of crazy features you probably won't use, but has a form/function combination that's easy to convince people to buy or 2) something that solves a key problem most people have.

OK, so.... brakes aren't exactly sexy in the way that Di2 shifting is for some people and most people aren't having problems stopping their current bikes or wearing out a key component because of the way current braking systems function. Given that, I think predictions of a "disc wave" are a bit misplaced.
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Old 02-20-15, 12:34 PM
  #344  
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Originally Posted by RJM View Post
They can easily make hydraulic actuated dual pivot calipers without changing the entire frame/ride of a road bike. I would say that is the best of both worlds.
Won't have the modulation. Can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Who says I'm fat???? Most women I know just aren't into the Kate Moss waify looking dudes.
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Old 02-20-15, 01:02 PM
  #345  
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
I'm not disputing other folks experience, but over 100,000 miles of cycling I have never worn out a rim. Of course I have replaced wheels over that time to get the latest and greatest, but I have never worn out a rim. DSFDF
I did my share of miles, and I did things that most cyclists never experienced or never will. I'm happy to report I destroyed several aluminum rims in my cycling career. All of them on the rear, and yes...I use rear 99% of the time, and I never crashed while braking. I ride year long, wet and icy...I can't learn to use the front brake...it would be a disaster
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Old 02-20-15, 01:23 PM
  #346  
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Originally Posted by lopek77 View Post
I use rear 99% of the time
I hope you never do group riding. You'd be dangerous.
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Old 02-20-15, 01:33 PM
  #347  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
I hope you never do group riding. You'd be dangerous.
I don't do group rides...It's hard to keep with me and my needs.
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Old 02-20-15, 01:49 PM
  #348  
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Originally Posted by lopek77 View Post
I don't do group rides
That's good. Whatever floats your boat, then.
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Old 02-20-15, 02:32 PM
  #349  
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
I'm not disputing other folks experience, but over 100,000 miles of cycling I have never worn out a rim. Of course I have replaced wheels over that time to get the latest and greatest, but I have never worn out a rim. DSFDF
me neither. of course, i'm riding now in sunny, dry, California. not on salt and sand strewn New England back roads.

OTOH, if "DSFDF" means something i don't agree with, i take it all back.
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Old 02-20-15, 02:41 PM
  #350  
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Originally Posted by UnfilteredDregs View Post
Won't have the modulation. Can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Who says I'm fat???? Most women I know just aren't into the Kate Moss waify looking dudes.
Mark Cavendish raced with hydraulic dual pivot brakes in the 2013 Tour. He loved them. He specially commented on the improved modulation.
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