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Titanium like Modern Aluminum?

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Titanium like Modern Aluminum?

Old 02-12-15, 09:39 AM
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Titanium like Modern Aluminum?

So this past weekend someone let me take a 10 minute test ride on their titanium bike during a group ride. I think it was an Airborne road bike. I had heard that titanium was smooth and comfortable, but during the ride, I felt like I was riding my aluminum 2013 Specialized Secteur.

Do all titanium bikes and modern aluminum bikes feel similar in this way?

Is that why builders are using primarily aluminum and carbon now?
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Old 02-12-15, 09:44 AM
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so are your impressions that the Airborne ride was harsh and rough?
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Old 02-12-15, 09:49 AM
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rims, tire pressure, tubing thickness, chain stay dimensions seat stay curve, saddle, saddle rail.... soooo sooo many variables that i care not over the mere fact what the material composition of a frame is
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Old 02-12-15, 09:58 AM
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I have a Ti frame with an aluminum fork... is that not the worst of all possible worlds? The BB is noodly (it's old and lacks the beefed up BB of modern Ti) and the fork is buzzy. The frame sits unassembled in my bike shed, a constant thorn in my wife's side.

Was this one of the old airborne bikes with the straight gauge chinese tubing? I wouldn't call that "modern" when discussing Ti.
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Old 02-12-15, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by TrojanHorse
I have a Ti frame with an aluminum fork... is that not the worst of all possible worlds? The BB is noodly (it's old and lacks the beefed up BB of modern Ti) and the fork is buzzy. The frame sits unassembled in my bike shed, a constant thorn in my wife's side.

Was this one of the old airborne bikes with the straight gauge chinese tubing? I wouldn't call that "modern" when discussing Ti.
It was at least 10 years old he said. Had also developed a crack at the seat clamp/head tube area.
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Old 02-12-15, 10:00 AM
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Yeah, lots of variables in addition to material. My Ti bike has thin-ish curved seat and chain stays and rides pretty plushly.
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Old 02-12-15, 01:23 PM
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I am having an Engin Ti (carbon fork) built for me so that had better not be the case.
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Old 02-13-15, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Jarrett2
It was at least 10 years old he said. Had also developed a crack at the seat clamp/head tube area.
That sounds like a very strangely constructed bike.
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Old 02-13-15, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Jarrett2
It was at least 10 years old he said. Had also developed a crack at the seat clamp/head tube area.
Wait woah woah woah. Aren't titanium frames supposed to last forever? Isn't that one of their selling points?
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Old 02-14-15, 06:26 AM
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I just exchanged an Everti Falcon for a Merlin Werks CR. The difference between the two is amazing. Same everything on the build, but the Merlin is much more comfortable than the Everti without sacrificing stiffness at the BB. Both have similar geometry and modern, advanced tubing (butted, shaped tubes; curved stays, etc.) but they are like night and day.
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Old 02-14-15, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
I am having an Engin Ti (carbon fork) built for me so that had better not be the case.
I also had a Ti frame built for me. By using different tube sets the builder and geometry, the builder is able to get about any ride characteristic you want. Mine also had curved stays that Looigi mentioned.
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Old 02-14-15, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by StanSeven
I also had a Ti frame built for me. By using different tube sets the builder and geometry, the builder is able to get about any ride characteristic you want. Mine also had curved stays that Looigi mentioned.

I am going to stop by the shop this morning to talk Cerakote colors with the builder. I am sure he will do a great job. Everyone who has one of his bikes loves it. I know my chain stays will be curved. Some older examples:

Road Bicycles | Engin Cycles

This is the road bike the builder built for himself:

ttp://www.cerakoteguncoatings.com/gallery/detail/10744/Cerakote-Custom-Mix-of-H137-Gloss-White-and-H169-Sky-Blue/

The photo doesn't do it justice.
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Old 02-14-15, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Jarrett2
It was at least 10 years old he said. Had also developed a crack at the seat clamp/head tube area.
Lol. ANythng else you left out in the OP? Did it have a front basket with some tractor engine parts the guy was rebuilding while he rides? Did he have his dog tied to the back?

What a weird thread.

If you'll pardon me, I must now get ready for a 45 mile ride on my incredibly comfy, yet lively titanium bike, which replaced the totally ho hum Roubaix I had before it.
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Old 02-14-15, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
I am going to stop by the shop this morning to talk Cerakote colors with the builder. I am sure he will do a great job. Everyone who has one of his bikes loves it. I know my chain stays will be curved. Some older examples:

Road Bicycles | Engin Cycles

This is the road bike the builder built for himself:

ttp://www.cerakoteguncoatings.com/gallery/detail/10744/Cerakote-Custom-Mix-of-H137-Gloss-White-and-H169-Sky-Blue/

The photo doesn't do it justice.
Looks really nice; I particularly like the seatpost paint detail!
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Old 02-14-15, 12:16 PM
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Frame material doesn't have a whole lot to do with harshness or lack thereof. Tubing shape and diameter, geometry, seatpost size, spokes, rims, tires, pressure..................
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Old 02-15-15, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by rideBjj
Lol. ANythng else you left out in the OP? Did it have a front basket with some tractor engine parts the guy was rebuilding while he rides? Did he have his dog tied to the back?

What a weird thread.

If you'll pardon me, I must now get ready for a 45 mile ride on my incredibly comfy, yet lively titanium bike, which replaced the totally ho hum Roubaix I had before it.
Don't take this stuff so personally.
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Old 02-15-15, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass
Frame material doesn't have a whole lot to do with harshness or lack thereof. Tubing shape and diameter, geometry, seatpost size, spokes, rims, tires, pressure..................
I thought that was true as well until I owned two bikes with everything the same but the material.
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Old 02-15-15, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Jarrett2
I thought that was true as well until I owned two bikes with everything the same but the material.
Exact same tubing diameter, butting, geometry? What bikes were these?
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Old 02-15-15, 10:16 AM
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Roubaix and Secteur.
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Old 02-15-15, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass
Frame material doesn't have a whole lot to do with harshness or lack thereof. Tubing shape and diameter, geometry, seatpost size, spokes, rims, tires, pressure..................
That is simply false. Both frame material and geometry are each significant contributors to ride quality.
Carbon for example for the same section modulus and yield strength has a much lower frequency of resonance. It natively damps better than metal bikes.

OP to answer your question, apples to apples Ti generally attenuates road shock better than Al. But I can quickly explain why the playing field isn't close to even between the two materials. Aluminum bikes have improved dramatically in the last 5 years...perhaps more than any material.
Specialized combines both high tech welding techniques...called Smart Weld...and hydroforming to create tube shapes very close to carbon. This is much harder if not cost prohibitive in Ti. Variable section modulus of new Al bikes is a real game changer and why so many will build up say a new Specialized Allez Al Smartweld frame as their go to race bike versus lower cost carbon. A great frame for $1K when say a nice Ti frame is in the $1.5-2K range and carbon is in this range as well if not a bit more for a high end carbon frame.

The Secteur that you mention is going to be replaced by the Diverge which is even better as it is offered in smart weld and if you don't look close you would swear its a carbon bike. The Diverge in any form has excellent ride quality.

Hope that helps.

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Old 02-15-15, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Jarrett2
Roubaix and Secteur.
Before of after you replaced your harsh Roubaix wheelset?
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Old 02-15-15, 10:26 AM
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What?
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Old 02-15-15, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Campag4life
That is simply false. Both frame material and geometry are each significant contributors to ride quality.
Carbon for example for the same section modulus and yield strength has a much lower frequency of resonance. It natively damps better than metal bikes.

OP to answer your question, apples to apples Ti generally attenuates road shock better than Al. But I can quickly explain why the playing field isn't close to even between the two materials. Aluminum bikes have improved dramatically in the last 5 years...perhaps more than any material.
Specialized combines both high tech welding techniques...called Smart Weld...and hydroforming to create tube shapes very close to carbon. This is much harder if not cost prohibitive in Ti. Variable section modulus of new Al bikes is a real game changer and why so many will build up say a new Specialized Allez Al Smartweld frame as their go to race bike versus lower cost carbon. A great frame for $1K when say a nice Ti frame is in the $1.5-2K range and carbon is in this range as well if not a bit more for a high end carbon frame.

The Secteur that you mention is going to be replaced by the Diverge which is even better as it is offered in smart weld and if you don't look close you would swear its a carbon bike. The Diverge in any form has excellent ride quality.

Hope that helps.
I think Jarrett just tested out a dud Ti bike much like the one I just got rid of. But if I needed a fourth road bike, it would be Al to complete the sweep or maybe I should say to "hit for the cycle". Whatever, Al is the only popular material I am currently lacking. It would like to give it a shot to see how it has come along since my old glued Trek 2000.
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Old 02-15-15, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Jarrett2
What?
Yeah, in another thread where you posted the stock wheelset was harsh and you replaced it. And then in that one other thread a couple of weeks ago when you said your carbon bike was smoother with 28's than your alu bike was with 32's and you didn't want to tell me exactly what bikes those were when I asked. You fit 32's on a Secetur? Just trying to clear it all up.
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Old 02-15-15, 12:50 PM
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No. While frame material does come into play, it's how the bike was designed. I've ridden many carbon bikes and they all rode very different from one another. Each were built with different purposes in mind. I've had several Ti bikes and they each rode differently as well. It's hard to compare the two when you don't know the particulars about the bike. I've had an Airborne Ti cross bike and with 23's, I didn't care for the ride. It was a bit stiff but that's probably what the designers had in mind, since it was probably designed with cross racing in mind.
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