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SRAM Red is Weird

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SRAM Red is Weird

Old 02-17-15, 04:42 PM
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bmcphx
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SRAM Red is Weird

Hey all, hoping someone can give me a couple of pointers here. One of my bikes has RED22, and I don't like it much, but I'm unsure if I don't like it because of a lack of understanding or because it sucks. I'll leave that up to someone else and just worry about trying to get it to behave properly.

If I am at the top of the cassette, in the 25t, and am not thinking about it and try to shift to a higher gear, I am knocked down to the 23t. This is because the lever got one click, but since it locks out the second one, all I did was one click. As far as the mechanism is concerned it's doing what it's supposed to, and I don't see how there is a way to adjust otherwise. I am told, however, that there is a way to fix it so this won't happen. I have been told by two people who ride Sram that it can be done but they aren't able to tell me how to do it. I have been told by about a half-dozen people in three different shops that what I am experiencing is normal.

I know that I should pay attention to what gear I am in, but on a short punchy hill, sometimes it happens quickly enough that I'm just rowing through gears, get to the top of the cassette, and then it kicks me back down a notch. This is frustrating.

Anyone with enough knowledge and experience with sram who can verify for me if this is normal?
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Old 02-17-15, 04:57 PM
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There will be more resistance, but if you keep pushing on the shift lever, it will eventually click through (a loud, angry click, telling you to stop looking for another gear) and then it will stay in the largest cog. My Force 22 and Apex 10 speed both do this.

EDIT: But you are right, Red 22 is junk. You should take it off your bike and send it to me for proper disposal....
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Old 02-17-15, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Edonis13 View Post
There will be more resistance, but if you keep pushing on the shift lever, it will eventually click through (a loud, angry click, telling you to stop looking for another gear) and then it will stay in the largest cog. My Force 22 and Apex 10 speed both do this.
this is sort of what I expected could happen, and tried it the other day, but honestly felt like I was going to snap the lever if I pushed any harder.
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Old 02-17-15, 04:59 PM
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Adjust your limit screws.
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Old 02-17-15, 06:14 PM
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Yup, you are trying to get to a lower gear, not higher, but that must be very annoying for it to shift from the 25 to the 23. That would drive me nuts, never have ridden SRAM, my brain is wired for shimano two levers.

Now I'm going to watch an episode of that British car show, Low Gear ;-)

Seriously, that aspect of the single paddle system would drive me up the wall

Last edited by djb; 02-17-15 at 06:20 PM.
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Old 02-17-15, 06:27 PM
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OP: fast forward to 2:40 in this video -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92Cu_jneQFw
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Old 02-17-15, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
Yup, you are trying to get to a lower gear, not higher, but that must be very annoying for it to shift from the 25 to the 23. That would drive me nuts, never have ridden SRAM, my brain is wired for shimano two levers.

Now I'm going to watch an episode of that British car show, Low Gear ;-)

Seriously, that aspect of the single paddle system would drive me up the wall
It only does it if you single tap it. If you double tap it you will get this loud clacking sound and resistance but it will not shift.
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Old 02-17-15, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
Seriously, that aspect of the single paddle system would drive me up the wall
That aspect of downshifting and inadvertently grabbing rear brake on a climb is what drives me up a wall with Shimano. To each their own.

@bmcphx: Your drivetrain is functioning as intended, and there isn't a way to adjust it away. When I first started riding Sram, I had the same thing happen to me. I learned to either quickly downshift again . . . or upshift 1-2 additional cogs to ease my transition into from large-to-small chainring (since you're obviously wanting to downshift anyways). As @Edonis13 mentioned, if you keep pushing, there will be a harder & louder second click that will keep the same cog . . . but it's significantly harder, to the point that I just don't do it.

It simply is what it is. For me, I've ridden Sram so long that it's a non-issue. Is this your first time owning Sram? It may be one of those things that you acclimate to over time if this is your first rodeo with the brand.
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Old 02-17-15, 06:51 PM
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The video shows there is a way to adjust it away. Just let the low limit screw allow a tiny movement of the RD to the left when on the largest cog. That will allow the second click anf prevent the indavertant upshifting.
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Old 02-17-15, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
The video shows there is a way to adjust it away. Just let the low limit screw allow a tiny movement of the RD to the left when on the largest cog. That will allow the second click anf prevent the indavertant upshifting.
Gotcha. I read his post so quickly I didn't realize that his bike wasn't doing this.
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Old 02-17-15, 08:02 PM
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I dunno... I rode Shimano for years and when I got Red, it took an embarrassingly long time before I stopped shifting the wrong way. Same thing with that top gear and the angry double click. It seems like I'd sense the end of travel and let go, resulting in an upshift at the worst time.

I'm pretty dialed in now and like it but give yourself some time to get your muscle memory going.
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Old 02-17-15, 08:19 PM
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I can't get the thing to click a second time when I'm at the up of the cassette. I'm sure I could push harder but u think I'm going to break it.
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Old 02-17-15, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by RNAV View Post
That aspect of downshifting and inadvertently grabbing rear brake on a climb is what drives me up a wall with Shimano. To each their own.

@bmcphx: Your drivetrain is functioning as intended, and there isn't a way to adjust it away. When I first started riding Sram, I had the same thing happen to me. I learned to either quickly downshift again . . . or upshift 1-2 additional cogs to ease my transition into from large-to-small chainring (since you're obviously wanting to downshift anyways). As @Edonis13 mentioned, if you keep pushing, there will be a harder & louder second click that will keep the same cog . . . but it's significantly harder, to the point that I just don't do it.

It simply is what it is. For me, I've ridden Sram so long that it's a non-issue. Is this your first time owning Sram? It may be one of those things that you acclimate to over time if this is your first rodeo with the brand.
ya, I should have said that its more of the same lever doing two things that must be hard getting used to using. Oddly enough, I have never grabbed the rear brake by mistake while shifting, and even find down shifting while braking to work rather well--but as you say, both systems work, you just have to get your mindset set up for one or the other.

good to see that if the rd is setup properly, you can do that futile final double click to avoid a downshift when in the largest cog.
Again, coming from a Shimano user, if you feel a significantly harder feel to the shifter, you stop cuz you know you are pushing against the derailleur limiter and instinctively dont want to push harder (imagining the rd going into the spokes, it doesnt if the limit screw is properly set, but you know what I mean).

that video is well done and explains everything very well, especially the part about the "overshift" play to allow for a double click even when already in the big cog.
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Old 02-17-15, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bmcphx View Post
I can't get the thing to click a second time when I'm at the up of the cassette. I'm sure I could push harder but u think I'm going to break it.
The video suggests that's because your low limit screw is keeping the RD from moving a little more to the left. You don't want to allow it to shift the chain into the spokes, just enough to allow the second click.
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Old 02-17-15, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by bmcphx View Post
I can't get the thing to click a second time when I'm at the up of the cassette. I'm sure I could push harder but u think I'm going to break it.
was typing my response before seeing yours, yes that is exactly the feeling it must feel like. Without knowing if you are pushing hard enough or not, it could be the setup as described in the video, needing a slightly more inboard limit adjustment.
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Old 02-17-15, 08:49 PM
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I've ridden SRAM red for years on multiple bikes. I've never had to do any special adjustments and never had this issue. I'm always looking for another gear when at my limit climbing and you'd have to do a serious brain fart to upshift in this situation when everything is working right.

The action to upshift is one short movement to get a click. That action to downshift is a significant sweep past that first click. If there isn't another gear, you just get a second click and nothing happens. You either have a defective part, a poor adjustment, or you are doing it wrong.
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Old 02-18-15, 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Edonis13 View Post
There will be more resistance, but if you keep pushing on the shift lever, it will eventually click through (a loud, angry click, telling you to stop looking for another gear) and then it will stay in the largest cog. My Force 22 and Apex 10 speed both do this.

EDIT: But you are right, Red 22 is junk. You should take it off your bike and send it to me for proper disposal....
Forget that. I have a Hazmat suit. I'll come get it.
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Old 02-18-15, 05:52 AM
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Huh.... It's mostly a matter of conditioning, I think. When attempting to shift past the last cog, I don't get the sense that last click is "angry," and never get the sense that I'm going to break anything. Probably because I got SRAM as a novice and was so often looking for an easier gear that I quickly got used to it....
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Old 02-18-15, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by grwoolf View Post
I've ridden SRAM red for years on multiple bikes. I've never had to do any special adjustments and never had this issue. I'm always looking for another gear when at my limit climbing and you'd have to do a serious brain fart to upshift in this situation when everything is working right.

The action to upshift is one short movement to get a click. That action to downshift is a significant sweep past that first click. If there isn't another gear, you just get a second click and nothing happens. You either have a defective part, a poor adjustment, or you are doing it wrong.

Same here. I've been riding various iterations of Red since it was invented. No issues at all.

None.

Standing, sitting, whatever.
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Old 02-18-15, 08:05 AM
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I test rode SRAM when I was bike shopping and didn't buy it for exactly the reason you describe. So your bike isn't the only one set up incorrectly and having this issue. it sounds like it's pretty common, even.

this thread was enlightening, thanks to those who posted the video & explained how it works.

Last edited by PhotoJoe; 02-18-15 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 02-18-15, 08:06 AM
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well, for me this thread was good because I've never ridden or worked on sram stuff, I learned something here and now know what to look out for if this ever comes up, riding or adjusting.

again, that vid on adjusting sram rd's was perfect for illustrating the overall concept and the specific bit about having enough movement for the futile double click at the end.
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Old 02-18-15, 08:40 AM
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MOD NOTE: Deleted the personal attacks, and edited out the references to those. Let's not make derailleur adjustments a personal matter.
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Old 02-18-15, 08:42 AM
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For anyone wondering what it is like to work in a bike shop, imagine trying to keep a straight face and dealing with some of these comments face to face. Without laughing.
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Old 02-18-15, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
For anyone wondering what it is like to work in a bike shop, imagine trying to keep a straight face and dealing with some of these comments face to face. Without laughing.
Not just bike shops... try working at a auto repair shop.

Just because you can afford a high price bike, doesn't mean you have any mechanical ability or common sense.

I find when it comes to high end mechanical products there are those that are into the "nuts and bolts" and there are those that just want to use them and don't understand when they don't work like new everytime. I've seen high priced leased cars where the driver neglects even routine maintenance and wonders why their one year old Porsche breaks down.
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Old 02-18-15, 11:47 AM
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precisely, I have no knowledge or interest in knowing how to fix my bike. I want to ride it, and I want it to work properly. The thing that confused me here is the shop telling me this is normal and others with SRAM experience telling me it's not normal. So what am I to do, ask here!

Then I get abused for it like I'm some wreck of a person because I don't know how to adjust a SRAM derailleur. Thanks to the video, I was able to adjust it properly, I appreciate all of the useful help.
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