myth001

Hi guys,
I'm looking for a new cassette. Currently I've been riding an 11-32 cassette, that I got as I ride some steep but short hills in my neighborhood. I have been trying to train myself to eliminate the use of 32, and max out at 28 instead. That will ensure I don't face the jumps in cogs in the middle range for a smoother ride.

I like the combinations of the Dura Ace 12-28, as it gives us the 15-16-17 in the middle. Which the Ultegra cassette doesn't.

Dura Ace 9000 gives: 12-28: 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25-28 (perfect, but costly)
Ultegra 6800 gives: 11-28: 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-28 (no 16T)

I've seen on some forums/discussions online that people have combined 2 Ultegra cassettes to get the required cogs. But having 2 Ultegra cassettes will bring the price closer to the Dura Ace anyways.

I would your suggestions to know what's the best way to do this. Should I swap a cog (maybe the 11 or 12), and put in a 16 instead? Are these cogs easily available?

Or is there another brand that's perfectly compatible with Shimano's 11-speed that I can try?

This will be on my training wheel, as my racing wheel has a Dura Ace 12-28 already.

dtrain

One other 12-28 11 speed Shimano compatible cassette I've seen is offered by bdop cycling. I'd love to hear from anyone who's used one. It is very light (120g) and claims to have some 'anti-bite' qualities. It appears to mimic the DA gearing exactly.

https://www.bdopcycling.com/BDop%20CASSETTES.asp

BoSoxYacht

Use a 12-25 cassette.

rpenmanparker 

SRAM (Force at least) offers and 11-speed cassette going up to 28 teeth with the 15, 16, 17- tooth series but starting at 11. It uses the 22 in place of the 21 + 23 in order to make room for the 11. There used to be 10-speed 12-28 Force cassettes, but not in the 11-speed versions. I think the rationale is that the extra tooth made room for the 11 rather than for the 21+23. In any case the Force should work very well with Ultegra and not break the bank.

UnfilteredDregs

I've been thinking about mixing and matching cogs from some Ultegras...

You could check out Tiso, or Miche. I've heard mixed things about the Miche product. I have no experience with Tiso, they do seem pricey. There's Recon cassettes as well.

I just picked up the Dura-Ace for my new wheels. It'll close two gaps in the 20mph-25mph range for me.

JohnJ80

SRAM cassettes work just fine with an 11 speed Shimano drive train. I've been using a both an 11-26 and an 11-28 all last year for several thousand miles. Absolutely no issues. Lenard Zinn in his tech column wrote about the compatibility of 11 speed drive trains and cassette/wheel swapping. At 11 speed, all three are compatible spacing on the cassette and chain.

Here's the SRAM gearing:
11-26: 11,12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,23,26
11-28: 11,12,13,14,15,16,17,19,22,25,28

Note that it has the 16 tooth cog you were looking for. This is a subtle difference from the Shimano gearing, but I prefer it for exactly the reasons you mention.

I agree, I like the spacing on the 12-28 from Shimano but I don't want to pay the price for the Dura ace cassette.

Note, as well, if you have hubs that allow you to change the free hub, Campy has some nice cassettes with 12-27 and a 12-29 that you may find interesting. They are all compatible with 11 speed shimano drive train but with the free hub cost and the cost of campy cassettes it's an expensive option.

J.

dtrain

I added a link to bdop's in my post above. The difference in the SRAM gearing is interesting. I wonder if the 3-tooth jump from 19-22 would bug me. I know that I wouldn't miss the 11t (on the 12t options).

myth001

Some good suggestions there. I really like the DA 12-28's configuration.
I already have the 11-32 Ultegra at home, so that can give me the 16 and 18 cogs (11-32: 11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32)

I wonder if I buy an 11-28, take out the 11, and put in the 16 from my 11-32. Will my 11 lockring lock the 12T cog properly? Or will I need to buy a 12 lockring for that option?

If I do the above, it'll give me the 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25-28


BTW, BDOP may be nice, but if I'm spending that much on the cassette, I'd just spend a bit more and get a Dura Ace. I already have a DA for my racing wheels. I need a cheaper option for my training wheels.

SRAM options are also good, I'll look into them as well.

dtrain

^ Yeah, I suppose the DA cassette isn't too much more (especially from the UK sites). Bdop's claim to be lighter than the DA and have some anti-bite qualities. I've already done some damage to my alloy freehub body. So I'm curious for some feedback, but not quite sold at that price.

Is swapping a few cassette cogs really that easy?

Jiggle

Aluminum cassettes are junk.

UnfilteredDregs

Yup.

dtrain

Okay, good to know. I wish I could afford an 1190...

myth001

I'm not sure, but it seems that way.
If the 11-speed cassettes are designed to have the width, the only limiting factors are your smallest and largest cogs. The largest cog defines your chainlength. The shortest one decides your lockring.

or I could be wrong... Anyone?

myth001

Here's the anatomy of an 11-speed Shimano.

Looks like the middle cogs should be interchangeable. Anyone?

dtrain

I'm sure throwing the loose 16t in would go okay with the right spacers and all. I'd have questions about the end. On top on the lockring concern, I can't quite tell if a 12t end cog (12-28) has some unique features/shape that a 12t designed to be 'one cog in' (cog from a 11-28) wouldn't have. I'm sure you could do 11,13-28 (with the added 16t) - but that would be a little annoying.

If I understand correctly, there are a couple of posters here on BF that run a 5800 or 6800 cassette as a 11,13-25 (or 28) in a '10 out of 11' set-up (on 10 speed hub). In other words, they upgraded everything to an 11 speed group besides the rear hub (and just dropped one cog).

myth001

Found this quote from another site. It is for a 10-speed, but should apply to an 11-speed also:
So we have some chance. I just ordered an 11-28, and now need to find a 12T lockring, so I can try to see how it all fits.These lockrings are hard to find, eh!!!

nz_aj

I'd like a 12-28 cassette, 12-13-14-15-16-17-18-20-22-25-28, i.e. with single spacing up to an 18 cog.
Shimano makes 11 speed cassettes with these cogs (11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32) + (12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25-28)
However I don't think the hyperglide is compatible, i.e. substituting 18A with 18B, etc.
Thoughts?

ingo

I tried to figure out how to make a 12-28 Ultegra 11 speed, and decided it was not worth buying two cassette to do it. The outermost cog is labeled "A", and the second cog is labelled "B". Cogs six to nine in the diagram are "C". The inner spiders are set so you can't change cogs on those ones. "C" cogs are interchangable. "A" and "B" cogs are not interchangeable. So to build a 12-28 cassette you need the 12 and 13 cogs from the 12-25, and then the two inner spiders from the 11-28. The 16 can be added so you end up with 12a-13b-14c-15c-16c-17c-(18/21/23)-(25/28). I bought the 11-28 and live with it. On my Campy I run a 12-29 which is pretty good.

rpenmanparker 

If your wheel manufacturer supports it, just replace your freehub body with a Campy one on the Shimano-compatible wheel. That way you can use that same 12-29 Campy cassette on the Ultegra bike. In 11 speed all the cassette brands work interchangeably. You just have to have the right freehub splines for the different cassettes.

smarkinson

Perhaps get a couple of 105 cassettes (11-28 and 12-25 are available in 105) and make a 12-28 from them?

You should, in theory, just be able to take the bottom five cogs from the 12-25 and put them on the 11-28 to give your ideal 12-28.

rpenmanparker 

Aluminum saddle rails too Remember those? I still hurt where I crashed from them breaking. Took me two times to learn that lesson.

bbattle

I checked out IRD's website. While they don't have the 12-28, they do have some crazy wide cassettes.

rm -rf

I really miss the 16 cog on an Ultegra 11-28.

At 95 rpm:
15 24.9 mph
16 23.3 mph
17 21.9 mph
19 19.6 mph

That jump from about 21-22 mph on a 50-17 to 24-25 mph on a 50-15 is huge when I'm trying to hang on a group ride hitting 20-23 mph on the flats. I keep shifting 15 to 17, back and forth, and keep getting "too hard" or "too easy".

~~~~
Sram 11-28 has closer gearing in the 20-25 mph range. (And the cassettes are compatible, of course.)
11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-22-25-28

Ultegra 11-28 has it's closer spacing from 15-20 mph.
11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-28

Check out this Mike Sherman Gear Calculator for 50/34 and Sram 11-28. See the "Speed over RPM Range" chart. (The popup just reminds you that you can save those settings as a bookmark/favorite.)

~~~~
Or

Campagnolo Chorus 12-29:
12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29

Chorus 12-25: adds the 18, moves 26 to 25.
12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25

I have Ultegra 11 on one bike, and Campagnolo 11 on another. I swapped wheels from the Ultegra 11-28 to the Chorus 12-25 on a recent fast, flat ride. What a difference to have all the right gear combinations. I didn't have to adjust the Ultegra rear derailleur at all.

~~~~
The Chorus cassettes are pretty expensive, but I'll probably switch my Ultegra wheel to Campagnolo this winter. It's just a hub shell swap.

cydewaze

75% of my flat riding is like this. ^