Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Where are all the "open mold" aluminum frames?

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Where are all the "open mold" aluminum frames?

Old 03-16-15, 08:59 AM
  #1  
tekhna
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,410
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Where are all the "open mold" aluminum frames?

Obviously open mold isn't the right word since it's aluminum, but it seems like there's room for someone to start making high-quality reasonably priced factory direct aluminum frames ala Hong Fu or Deng Fu or any other number of frame makers. Or is there just not enough OEM and consumer demand for aluminum to make up the bulk of orders?
tekhna is offline  
Old 03-16-15, 09:01 AM
  #2  
Phil_gretz
Journeyman Bike Commuter
 
Phil_gretz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 6,454

Bikes: '71 Jeunet 640, '79 Peugeot PXN10LE, '88 Fuji Saratoga, '13 Motobecane Fantom29 HT, '16 Motobecane Turino Pro Disc, '16 Motobecane Gran Premio Elite, '18 Velobuild VB-R-022

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1227 Post(s)
Liked 1,045 Times in 566 Posts
Bikesdirect.com

Nashbar.com
Phil_gretz is offline  
Old 03-16-15, 09:12 AM
  #3  
MagicHour
Senior Member
 
MagicHour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: NYC
Posts: 867
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Products | Racelight | Aithein | Kinesis Bikes UK
Planet X RT-58 Alloy Road Frameset | Planet X
Scattante XRL Comp Road Bike Frame with Fork and Headset
Velocite Blue Selene alloy road bike frame
MagicHour is offline  
Old 03-16-15, 09:24 AM
  #4  
rpenmanparker 
Senior Member
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6554 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 49 Times in 32 Posts
Suggestions above are good ones, but I don't think anyone is "knocking off" the lightest and greatest like the Caad 10. More's the pity. With aluminum you could have your cake and eat it too. You wouldn't have to worry about Chinese Al frames asploding like so many folks do with the no-name CF ones. At least I don't think you would.
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline  
Old 03-16-15, 09:24 AM
  #5  
tekhna
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,410
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yeah, I've seen those. Maybe my expectations are set too high (low?) but you can get any number of open mold carbon frames for the same price, not much to distinguish them.
tekhna is offline  
Old 03-16-15, 09:34 AM
  #6  
k_kibbler
Senior Member
 
k_kibbler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 241

Bikes: Canyon Ultimate CF SL

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Suggestions above are good ones, but I don't think anyone is "knocking off" the lightest and greatest like the Caad 10. More's the pity. With aluminum you could have your cake and eat it too. You wouldn't have to worry about Chinese Al frames asploding like so many folks do with the no-name CF ones. At least I don't think you would.
I would absolutely have reservations about welding quality.
k_kibbler is offline  
Old 03-16-15, 09:35 AM
  #7  
Stucky
Old Fart
 
Stucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Bumpkinsville
Posts: 3,348

Bikes: '97 Klein Quantum '16 Gravity Knockout

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
It's a darn shame that aluminum seems to be relegated to lower-end; entry-level; and generic bikes these days. Gary Klein proved that you can do amazing things with aluminum- and make a bike that is stiff, light [19 lbs. with no fancy upgrades] and a pleasure to ride. Unfortunately, it's not these high-quality AL frames which are being duplicated.
Stucky is offline  
Old 03-16-15, 09:40 AM
  #8  
tekhna
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,410
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Stucky View Post
It's a darn shame that aluminum seems to be relegated to lower-end; entry-level; and generic bikes these days. Gary Klein proved that you can do amazing things with aluminum- and make a bike that is stiff, light [19 lbs. with no fancy upgrades] and a pleasure to ride. Unfortunately, it's not these high-quality AL frames which are being duplicated.
Well Cannondale does seem to be bent on proving AL can still be a viable frame material. But I do agree, it's a damn shame there are so few high-quality aluminum frames. I ride carbon and steel but I was totally happy on aluminum in the past.
tekhna is offline  
Old 03-16-15, 09:41 AM
  #9  
Lazyass
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 8,391

Bikes: Vintage steel, aluminum, modern carbon disc, single speed, MTB's, the works

Mentioned: 60 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2034 Post(s)
Liked 115 Times in 71 Posts
You mean hydroformed.
Lazyass is offline  
Old 03-16-15, 09:41 AM
  #10  
Stucky
Old Fart
 
Stucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Bumpkinsville
Posts: 3,348

Bikes: '97 Klein Quantum '16 Gravity Knockout

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by k_kibbler View Post
I would absolutely have reservations about welding quality.
Nah...thaey've got that under control. I've had some Chinese ATVs and a scooter....and by c.2010, they really started getting their act together, and making some good quality stuff. Of course, it depends on the individual manufacturer; and the price you pay- but point is, there's a lot of competent good quality Chinese stuff around these days- unlike the past, where almost everything was junk. It was the same with Japanese stuff when they were first getting into making everything. At first "Made in Japan" was synonymous with shoddy quality- but in a few years they got their act together, and became the standard by which others were judged.

Hey, look- 95% of the bikes on the market today are being made in either China or Taiwan[China Jr.]....
Stucky is offline  
Old 03-16-15, 09:43 AM
  #11  
bt
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,664
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by k_kibbler View Post
I would absolutely have reservations about welding quality.
you might be surprised at how good they actually are.
bt is offline  
Old 03-16-15, 09:47 AM
  #12  
tekhna
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,410
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by bt View Post
you might be surprised at how good they actually are.
Yeah, I'm over the question of whether I trust Chinese carbon or Chinese welds. If I didn't the only bike I could ride is a handmade Waterford or something. Almost every bike in the world comes out of China. The quality is higher than it's ever been in the history of cycling.
tekhna is offline  
Old 03-16-15, 09:50 AM
  #13  
Lazyass
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 8,391

Bikes: Vintage steel, aluminum, modern carbon disc, single speed, MTB's, the works

Mentioned: 60 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2034 Post(s)
Liked 115 Times in 71 Posts






Aster Extra Aluminum Bicycle Frame - Buy Bicycle Frame,Aluminum Bicycle,Aluminum Bicycle Frame Product on Alibaba.com
Lazyass is offline  
Old 03-16-15, 09:56 AM
  #14  
tekhna
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,410
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Lol, that geometry.

"XL/54cm"
tekhna is offline  
Old 03-16-15, 10:00 AM
  #15  
rpenmanparker 
Senior Member
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6554 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 49 Times in 32 Posts
Originally Posted by tekhna View Post
Lol, that geometry.

"XL/54cm"
Hey that geometry looks pretty good to me.



Oh, you meant the bike. Sorry.
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline  
Old 03-16-15, 10:03 AM
  #16  
Bah Humbug
runner
 
Bah Humbug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 17,036

Bikes: S1, R2, P2

Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6544 Post(s)
Liked 1,932 Times in 1,048 Posts
Originally Posted by k_kibbler View Post
I would absolutely have reservations about welding quality.
Welding quality and the quality of the aluminum itself.
Bah Humbug is offline  
Old 03-16-15, 10:10 AM
  #17  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 34,036

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 343 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16272 Post(s)
Liked 4,998 Times in 2,616 Posts
Originally Posted by Stucky View Post
Nah...thaey've got that under control. I've had some Chinese ATVs and a scooter....and by c.2010, they really started getting their act together, and making some good quality stuff. Of course, it depends on the individual manufacturer; and the price you pay- but point is, there's a lot of competent good quality Chinese stuff around these days- unlike the past, where almost everything was junk. It was the same with Japanese stuff when they were first getting into making everything. At first "Made in Japan" was synonymous with shoddy quality- but in a few years they got their act together, and became the standard by which others were judged.

Hey, look- 95% of the bikes on the market today are being made in either China or Taiwan[China Jr.]....
I think that his comment was in the context of a knock-off using very thin-walled AL tubing such as with the CAAD. I, too, would be skeptical under those conditions.
WhyFi is offline  
Old 03-16-15, 10:12 AM
  #18  
rms13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,517
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 276 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 1 Post
If you can get a used caad frame from eBay for $300 why would you want a knock off?
rms13 is offline  
Old 03-16-15, 10:15 AM
  #19  
Darth Lefty 
Disco Infiltrator
 
Darth Lefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 11,678

Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Timberjack, Expert TG, Samba tandem

Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2278 Post(s)
Liked 958 Times in 631 Posts
Premium bikes aren't aluminum any more, for the most part. The market for bootlegs is going to be too small to spend all the time grinding those welds.
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17
Darth Lefty is offline  
Old 03-16-15, 10:18 AM
  #20  
tekhna
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,410
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by rms13 View Post
If you can get a used caad frame from eBay for $300 why would you want a knock off?
I would be very happy if I could find a 63cm CAAD on Ebay for 300 bucks.
tekhna is offline  
Old 03-16-15, 10:26 AM
  #21  
rpenmanparker 
Senior Member
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6554 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 49 Times in 32 Posts
Originally Posted by tekhna View Post
I would be very happy if I could find a 63cm CAAD on Ebay for 300 bucks.
Buy two 31.5s for $150 each. I think I just saw some this morning.
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline  
Old 03-16-15, 10:31 AM
  #22  
tekhna
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,410
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Buy two 31.5s for $150 each. I think I just saw some this morning.
Two of those "XL" frames might to nicely!
tekhna is offline  
Old 03-16-15, 10:35 AM
  #23  
velociraptor
Fatty McFatcakes
 
velociraptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Krispy Kreme
Posts: 987

Bikes: Aero Cheeseburger w/ Sr(h)am eBacon

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 245 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Stucky View Post
It's a darn shame that aluminum seems to be relegated to lower-end; entry-level; and generic bikes these days. ...
Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
Premium bikes aren't aluminum any more, for the most part. ...
Wot?!

Ahem...

S-Works Allez Di2
1,050g frameset
$8000



CAAD10 Black Inc. Disc
1,150g frameset
$4330

velociraptor is offline  
Old 03-16-15, 10:35 AM
  #24  
rms13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,517
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 276 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by tekhna View Post
I would be very happy if I could find a 63cm CAAD on Ebay for 300 bucks.
Yeah, needing an extremely large or small frame does cut down your used opportunities. One of my clubs had a pro deal this year with new Caad10 frames for $500. So just find a local club that has a deal with Cannondale and problem solved!
rms13 is offline  
Old 03-16-15, 10:40 AM
  #25  
Leinster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: location location
Posts: 2,772

Bikes: MBK Super Mirage 1991, CAAD10, Yuba Mundo Lux, and a Cannondale Criterium Single Speed

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 242 Post(s)
Liked 172 Times in 125 Posts
Originally Posted by tekhna View Post
I would be very happy if I could find a 63cm CAAD on Ebay for 300 bucks.
Here's a 60cm for $51 (currently). Don't walk, run! The remaining $250 can go towards that 130mm stem you'll be looking for.

Cannondale CAAD8 Aluminum Handmade in USA Frame Red Blk Sz 60 Cm | eBay

Even not allowing for eBay, rms' point is valid. The big name manufacturers are making good Al frames at reasonable prices (CAAD10, Allez, etc) so the Al buyer's choice comes down to "brand name with 105 vs knockoff with Ultegra" and any glance at BF of late will tell you nobody's turning down 105. Plus the CAAD has a lifetime warranty, whereas the knockoff has no such comebacks if/when it breaks.

Get a China Carbon, though, and you're looking at paying high hundreds vs multiple thousands for a frameset. The knockoff carbon frames bring race-weight carbon into a genuinely lower price point. Never mind that the guy buying the knockoff carbon could get a race-ready brand name AL bike for the same price or less.
Leinster is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.