MoonlitMatt

Hello,

I live in San Francisco, and commute right into the heart of downtown Market every day. On the advice from a friend, I bought a Kryptonite New York Lock 3000. This is one mean lock! It received the best rating possible from sold secure, and Kryptonite says it's their best lock as well.

What bugs me is the anti-theft policy. If the lock is somehow broken, Kryptonite will give me up to $3000 to cover what my house insurance doesn't. Sounds like a great deal, eh?

The catch is that you have to return the broken lock to them to get the money. (Along with a police report/insurance claim/etc) I have 2 friends that got their bike stolen from downtown SF, and neither of them could find the broken lock. It probably was picked up by one of the street-sweepers that passes by multiple times each day.

Am I asking too much from Kryptonite's anti-theft policy? Or do I have a right to be a bit peeved at this requirement? I haven't heard anyone complain about this before, so I thought I'd post something.

(But hopefully I'll never have to worry about this, the NY3000 being the beast that it is.)

Cheers!

jyossarian

If you don't return the broken lock, what proof do they have that the bike was stolen or that you were even using a Kryptonite lock when the bike was stolen?

Eggplant Jeff

The police report and/or insurance claim?

Eggplant Jeff

Although I can see their point too, which is that if the lock wasn't BROKEN, it wasn't really their fault. If the crook cut the bike rack to get your bike out, or you didn't lock it up right, or etc etc etc.

Tough call. Personally I think it's a little strict... the one time I had a bike stolen there was no sign of the chain I'd used to lock it up. But on the other hand, I can understand their needing to protect themselves from fraud...

alanbikehouston

If a New York 3000 is correctly attached to the rear wheel and to a sturdy steel pole set in concrete, it is NOT going to get "broken" The "rear wheel to steel pole" method does not leave enough open space to insert effective leverage tools.

Tests by "Cycling Plus" indicate that no form of "manual" attack has any hope of breaking a New York 3000. Their editors were able to open the NY 3000 after about ten minutes using very loud, very visible power tools. So, as long as you lock up in a safe location, crooks will never attempt to mess with a New York 3000 ("real" crooks being something very different than a video "staged" by the bike's legal owner...geez). A crook can steal twenty bikes that have a Wal-Mart U-lock with less time and effort than trying to break one NY 3000.

No insurance policy would simply mail you a check for $3,000. Most homeowner's insurance policies and most renter's insurance policies would cover a stolen bike. But, the average policy covers only the depreciated value of the bike on the day it was stolen. I have never seen a used bike that had a depreciated value of $3,000. Ask your LBS what they would give you for your old bike as a trade-in. For most folks, the answer is gonna be closer to $300 than it will be to $3,000.

AND, an insurance company wants proof you actaully owned the bike, and that it was stolen. Receipts, photos, police reports. How long would any insurance company remain in business if someone could just call up on the phone and say "Hey, send me $3,000"?

Eggplant Jeff

Alan you're assuming that "very loud very visible power tools" are somehow unlikely to be used? That's a big assumption. Did you ever see that video of the guys who stole their own bikes using a bunch of different methods? One of them was an angle grinder. VERY VERY loud, VERY VERY visible, not one person stopped him to ask what he was doing.

tajsss

Funny video. Completely amazing how everyone else just minded their own business and didn't say or do anything. Kind of sad if you ask me. Maybe the people were scared to say anything to someone who is crazy enough to steel a bike by those methods in broad daylight.

alanbikehouston

"Staged" videos are not very representative of how real life works. Back when Kryptonite was a new, small company, trying to get free publicity, the company sponsored to "real life" tests. Bikes were locked up at some of the most dangerous locations in New York City while a camera crew was stationed nearby. This "test" was done several times over the years, and sometimes journalists from bike publications would be invited along.

And, the result was always the same. Crooks would come by and attack the lock with every tool they could think of. And, parts that were easy to take (gear changers, seats) might get stolen. But not once did a crook succeed in breaking the lock.

Why are crooks less successful than the "lawful owner"? The bike's owner does not have to worry about being arrested. He can make as much noise as he wants. He can take as much time as he wants. No danger of going to jail.

A crook, on the other hand, must worry about an irate owner showing up and putting a ballbat over his head. Or, the police showing up. So, a crook targets bikes that can be taken swiftly. Their favorite targets are bikes that can be stolen in under thirty seconds (which would be 90% of the bikes I see locked in my neighborhood). If a crook can take a bike in thirty seconds with close to zero risk, why would he bother with a bike that requires skilled use of expensive power tools, plus at least ten minutes of hard work?

I've never heard of a documented case of a bike with a correctly attached New York 3000 being stolen. In reading scores of threads on bike security issues, I've never seen an a post from an owner of that lock reporting that the lock had been broken, or even attacked by a crook.

But, I suppose if someone were to leave a $3,000 bike on a Brooklyn street corner for a month, it would get stolen eventually. But, is there bike owner dumb enough to leave a bike that expensive out of their sight?

EricDJ

Leave a note on it.

"Steal my bike, but please leave the broken lock when you go!"

chephy

I think the thieves usually take the broken lock with them... Why - I donno.

I heard stories of people buying two locks: one to lock the bike with, the other to break and send Kryptonite if their bike gets stolen...

crazybikerchick

Why? So they don't give the victim the opportunity to figure out how they actually broke the lock or stole the bike so that cyclists don't get wise to a certain method of attack.

Of course a lock company has to ask for evidence it was their lock that did it. I've seen people lock bikes to a short post, that you could easily lift the bike over. And other stupid things. Unfortunately the lock is not usually left by the thief.

CastIron

I think the Kryptonite policy is so riddled with loopholes as to be useless. Really, I have faith in my NY3k but not for a second in their 'insurance' (call it what you will). As such, I'm wise enough to have my own coverage which only requires a police report or affidavit. The second lock idea? Idiocy. Real insurance is cheaper.

crazybikerchick

Why? So they don't give the victim the opportunity to figure out how they actually broke the lock or stole the bike so that cyclists don't get wise to a certain method of attack.

Of course a lock company has to ask for evidence it was their lock that did it. I've seen people lock bikes to a short post, that you could easily lift the bike over. And other stupid things. Unfortunately the lock is not usually left by the thief.

alanbikehouston

That is silly. Only Frasier Crane would steal a bike, but invest the extra time and effort to sweep up and carry off the broken fragments of the lock. AND, get caught carrying the proof that he is a thief.

But, there ARE reasons that no broken lock fragments are found:

- Most crooks don't have the time, tools, or techniques to break a Kryptonite. Kryptonite locks are rarely broken - meaning only rarely could there be fragments.

- Folks did not properly engage the shackle into the crossbar

- the lock was attached to the wrong object. A guy got his bike stolen at a club in my neighborhood. Bike and lock gone. What happened? He locked it to a stop sign that was installed on a strip of grass. The crook just pulled the stop sign out of the grass and the lock slipped off the pole.

- Bike racks designed for crooks. The grocery store in my neighborhood has a rack with a "fat" bar on the end that folks love to lock their bikes to. They never notice that end bar is attached only by a simple bolt and nut that can be unfastened in about ten seconds. The lock slips right off the bar.

- An astounding number of folks lock the bike only to itself. These people can't possibly think anyone is gonna mail them money to buy a new bike.

Does ANYONE really think that collecting on an Allstate homeowner's policy would be any easier? Any insurance company that mails out checks without getting convincing documentation and proof would soon be known as a "former" insurance company.

CastIron

Fine it's all true. The Kryptonite plan is still B.S. All of us would be better off if they just sold annual insurance for $10per $1000 in coverage with the same requirements for proof of ownership and theft as the rest of the planet. Instead we get a bill of goods from the marketing department. Legal probably calls the payouts 'hush money' on the reare occasions they're made.

2manybikes

If anyone cares, You can go to the Kryptonite website, go to "Powersports" and you can see two other NY locks that are thicker and stronger than the NY 3000 bicycle lock. They have a higher security rating on Kryptonite’s scale, and if I remember right a higher $$ replacement policy. The 3000 is a good lock but it's NOT Kryptonite's strongest, most secure, NY lock. The other two locks are heavy, but I don't mind lugging mine around sometimes. They have the same lighted key, the same colors etc.
I think mine was about $79. Take a look! Better than the NY 3000 lock. Probably better than the best locks that C+ magazine tested. Not a big $$ investment.

MoonlitMatt

How much space would someone need? I'm not really sure. I do know that even through the rear wheel and frame and up against a 3-4" pole, the lock has a good 1 or 2" or length left. Should I be doing something differently to fill that space?


I understand that. I have no problem with providing proof you owned the bike, proof you bought the lock, a police report, and a photo of where it was stolen from (to show that it was a secure pole/rack). I do have a problem with the policy insisting that the thief has to leave you the lock. That's absurd.

Hehe, that seems to be Krypto's logic.

I'll just hope that noone is crazy enough to go after the NY lock, and I'll just let my home-owners insurance pay for the rest.

Is there any other type of insurance I can get? Stolen bike insurance?

EricDJ

Holy crap, you'd think that city is on welfare. They can't even afford the cement to hold the stop sign in place under the grass..

supcom

Or perhaps, "Please leave lock. Insurance will buy new bike for you to steal."

BikeLite

a police report, proof of purchase of the lock, and proof of purchase and registration of the bike for reimbursement amount based on what it is worth. All that if they still want to put up with some percentage of fraud. Requiring a broken lock reduces fraud to ZERO percent.

MoonlitMatt

It also reduces the chance of a customer ever requesting reimbursement. To me it seems more like a little insurance policy for themselves. Put a big "$3000 ANTI THEFT GARANTEE!" sticker on the box, make it difficult to ever have to actually come through with the guarantee, thus selling more locks, while simultaneously giving less money back for thefts. Yay for capitalism!

Kryptonite Lock

Hi everyone -
This topic was discussed over in the singlespeed/fixed gear section last week so it seems a lot of people are having questions about the anti-theft protection offer. Maybe I can help a little bit.

Yes, there is paperwork involved to register for the anti-theft protection offer. As was mentioned, this is to show that a)you really have a bike and b) you really have a Kryptonite lock. C'mon that isn't much to ask. You all are honest, but not everyone is, which is why you have a lock in the first place.

Now, if by some chance, your bike does get stolen and you have all the right information, your claim will go through. I've heard before that you need photos of the crime scene....nope. Might be another company, but not Kryptonite. Not sure what that would prove....you have a police report, that seems to be enough.

Yes, we do need a portion of the defeated lock. Again, this is proof that a) it was a Kryptonite lock and b) your bike was really locked. We would like to take everyone's word for this, but, unfortunately, we can't because thieves are thieves, on the street or otherwise. And, yes, if the item that the bike is locked to is cut or broken, that isn't covered. After all, the lock clearly didn't fail.

Now, having said all that.....believe it or not, we really do pride ourselves on our customer service and we try hard to work with everyone. If you've registered for the anti-theft protection offer and your bike gets stolen but you don't have every single piece of information, call anyway. We will try to help as much as we can.

One other thing, in general, no matter what brand of lock you have, please do read all about the anti-theft protection offer in the packaging. Some brands do not cover messengers/couriers (we do!) and some are not valid in New York State because the laws in that state are different (ours are valid and legal in that state).

2ManyBikes....I see you have buzzed around the website a little bit. Yes, there are a couple of locks in the powersports section that are bigger than the New York Lock. Also, much heavier and meant for an ATV or motorcycle. I do know that Merton, who posts here often, has one of the New York M-18 models and likes it. But, early next year we've got a New York Fahgettaboudit U-lock coming out. It's 'mini', but not really. We showed it at the bicycle trade shows in both Europe and the States in September. You can view it here:
https://www.singletrackworld.com/mod....mg=1722-10.jpg
or here:
https://www.dirtragmag.com/gal/showph...cat=549&page=1

It, too, will be heavier than the New York Lock, but not as heavy as the M-18s. Might be something you'll want to check out if you think you need something more than the New York Lock.

Safe riding all.

billallbritten

Funny you mention this. I've been told by police (and heard on "Car Talk" on NPR) that car battery thieves often strike twice in just this way. First they steal the old battery. Then come back the next day or so (assuming the car is parked in the same place regularly) knowing that there will be a brand new battery to steal from a car that they know they can compromise.

huhenio

I want my stop signs soft and flexible, just in the event of crashing against one.

MoonlitMatt

Was someone complaining about having to register for the anti-theft protection offer? I don't think so...

Oh well, I'll still have confidence that the lock won't be broken, but it still seems like a bit of a cheap ploy on Krypto's part to offer the protection, but leave so many loopholes for them to get of of actually upholding it.

And corporations are corporations. Bike or otherwise.