kimconyc

on a 2009 Cannondale Super Six Hi-Mod. On the way back home from Nyack, I decided to stop by my LBS to ***** about how my wheels have not come in yet. Lo and behold, one of the guys there just got this sweet bike with the Di2 and let me take it for a ride since he knows where I live.

First, the impressions of the frame:
Super stiff. It's similar to a Tarmac SL2 with a really beefy downtube, bottom bracket area and chainstay. It's definitely a lot heavier than my Bianchi HOC 928SL (poser climbing bike) but so much more stiff; you can really crank it out and you don't feel any flex in the rear wheel (this is also because I suck and just came off a 80+ mile ride). I noticed that both the Super Six has a really big headtube relative to the size of the frame. Moving on...

Di2:
Mixed feeling. The shift levers are actually a bit different than the Dura Ace 7900 levers. First, they are thinner at the top measuring sideways and second, they have these perforations or "dimples" at the top. Not sure why they have these dimples as they don't really add nor take away from either function or form.

The actual shifting is very different. it's sort of like SRAM double tap except that it's literally a tap. No pressing of a lever, simply the press of a button. However, unlike SRAM, there are two buttons. One on the brake lever to shift to a lower gear, and one on the shift lever to shift to a higher gear. I did not notice a difference in speed of shifting compared to regular 7900 or 7800 for that matter.

However, the front derailleur is the strong point IMO. When shifting to the big ring it's pretty much instantaneous. Also, Di2 has auto-trim. Furthermore, there is no crosschaining issues. You can go big-big, small-small-big ring, etc. It shifts no matter what. Also, it will shift under torque. That's a plus. So far, AFAIK, SRAM had the best shifting under torque (like sprinting up a hill) while Campy just sucked in that department. I tried to really screw up the shifting doing things like going small ring small cog then to the big ring but I did not once hear the chain grind against the front der.

I see 4 big problems:

1) Price, it's friggin expensive. It's around $4500. They had a complete Tarmac Roubaix 105 goup with decent wheels for less than $2500. Hmm, tough choice.
2) Electronics What if the battery dies. Because the owner just got it, he does not know how long the battery lasts in the real world under real shifting circumstances. From what I was told, if the battery dies, you can't shift out of that gear.2a) So in a race, lets say a wire gets loose or you forgot to charge it because you are ********. Then you just lost the race.
3) Weather. The problem with Di2 is that it seems like an aesthetically unfinished product. There are exposed wires everywhere. Lets say you are not the typical weekend warrior and actually ride in the rain like me. Sure at first, the wires are nice and coated but if you actually ride your bike, things get worn out and I am left wondering if there is a chance to get electrocuted or something. OK, so that's a bit extreme but really, wires and rain; this begs the question of the durability or functionality of this product under extreme weather like rain or snow. Also, what if you are riding when it's 20 degrees outside? I know a lot of electronics are finicky under that sort of low temperature. How about Di2? Question unanswered.
4) Racing. I don't race but one thing is that the Di2 has a VERY distinct shifting sound. Then you shift the rear it's more of a ping but the front derailleur has an unmistakable electronic shifting sound. This seems like a dead giveaway when one is about to attack, esp. coming off a hill or something like that.

So I have mixed feelings. Di2 is the most unique shifting mechanism I have ever seen. I'm not sure whether I love it or hate it or am indifferent. It's just different. On one hand, it takes technology to the next level. One can think of what the future will bring (like computer assisted handling skills). Di2 allows people who suck at shifting (you've heard that grinding noise from people when they are chugging up a hill) to get some assistance. On the other, Di2 seems really inorganic. In a way it takes away from the actual bike, a simple utilitarian machine.

Would I get Di2? Perhaps, but not when I can get a complete Tarmac Roubaix for nearly half the price.

DrPete 

1. Yup, sure is.
2. If you're racing and haven't checked your battery charge, either you deserve to lose or don't deserve to ride Di2.
3. Apparently many manufacturers are working on pre-wired frames to eliminate this problem. I have to believe that Shimano thought about this.
4. Granted, I'm not an experienced racer, but I can't think of a tactical reason that the sound will matter, especially shifting the front.

I for one won't be able to afford it for a good while, so it's nice to live vicariously through others.

patentcad

First, spare me the 'if you didn't check the battery charge you don't deserve Di2' hooey. You're spending big $ on this crap, it should friggin work. And that's the fatal flaw with introducing electronics where none is needed. Battery charge issues, exposed wiring that can break or short out, servo motors that can fail, electronics/batteries don't like the cold and wet (in a sport where that's a factor for half the year). I have enough problems remembering to take the right shoes to a bike race there's so much crap to slog along. The last thing I need when I'm lining up in the dark in Central Park in March for a race is 'boy, I hope my gears have a good battery charge, it's 26º out here this morning'. F that action.

I don't care if Di2 gives me a Bike Weenie Orgasm every time I shift to the 53. I rode a fixed gear all winter for years, so do many here. Gears is gears. How much shifting smoothness and precision do you need or care about? I think kimco nails it: it's nice, it's nifty, it's techno, it's cool, it really doesn't work that much better than mechanical 7900 or Ultegra or 105 for that matter, it's just the New Schwag. The last thing I'm concerned about when I'm getting my lungs sucked out my ahole in a race is how smooth the bike shifts. WhatEVER.

Shimano will never sell this in the quantities it needs to make it profitable until the price drops by 50% and they move aggressively to distribute it via OEM channels. Period.

I'm sure that's coming. Patience my little Schwag Obsessed Weenies, patience.

DrPete 

Pcad, that's like saying that tires are flawed because they need to be inflated periodically.

If you buy the stuff, it's no secret that you need to change/charge the battery. Whether it's a necessary change is irrelevant--buy Di2, worry about batteries. Shimano makes no claims that you don't have to. If you buy it and you let the battery die without a spare handy, you're either galactically ignorant or shouldn't be maintaining your own bike.

As for whether it's worth it, I tend to agree that right now the price to improvement ratio is sooooo friggin' high that it's not worth buying, and that the price does have to drop and the OEM market has to take off.

Pendergast

The review I saw said there's an indicator that tells you when there's 8 hours of charge left. It's not like people would be guessing when they need to recharge.

pacificaslim

FWIW, I didn't see a bunch of "exposed wires" on Hincapie's TOC bike this year, and he rode it through all that rain and over snow covered passes, and i didn't hear anything about failures.

ScrubJ

Rode it myself. Didn't see shifting in the rear to be much faster than my D/A stuff but, the front was waaayyy faster. Correct on the unusual sound of the shifting but not sure it would be an issue as the same was said about index shifting.

The bike I rode with the demo gruppo on it had over two weeks of use without being charged, only time will tell. I didn't see the wires as an issue as (for the most part) they just replace cables.

TONYKART125

I dont want to have to "charge" my bicycle.

operator

You guys are a bunch of nubtarts.

Making sure a battery is charged is the same as

1) Making sure your tyres have enough air in them
2) Making sure your chain is lubed
3) Making sure your bike shifts fine

This is the same bunch of luddite BS that people were saying when shifting went from friction to indexed. And i'm willing to bet 99% of you guys are riding indexed shifters here. Hate Di2 just because you hate something new, not because of superfluous reasons which is every single point brought up so far.

Ratfish

I saw the Di2 in action for the first time yesterday at my LBS. They had it installed on an Olympic cervelo S3 and I think the whole bike was going for $11,***. It seemed like an interesting novelty, but I bet you could have a mechanical method for swinging the FD slightly to avoid chain rub and save a lot of money.

Personally, I would much rather have Super Record on a bike than Di2; maybe that makes me a Luddite.

wfrogge

I gave it a test ride last week as well.

1. Its expensive but so what?
2. If the battery gets close to dying you have distinct warning signs.
3. There arent any "wires running everywhere". The product is quite finished.
4. The shifts are QUIET!!! Except for the small to large chain ring. Racers react on another racers moves not the sound of their shifting.


I'm going Red so it really dosent matter I guess

patentcad

That's the bottom line, but for me, the sport is overly complicated, there's too much crap already, and this is one more needless complication.

patentcad

I'm sure I'll be riding a new Cervelo with this stuff by 2012. The hand-wringing threads about it will bring my post count to 100,000.

operator

Yeah lots of d-bags with 10, 11 gears, derailleurs and indexed shifters. Clipless pedals, carbon parts. Aerodynamic wheels. Needless complications.

skinnyone

For those of you worrying about charging the battery, come on! how many of your charge your cell phones on a regular basis huh? I cant remember a time that I didnt have charge on my cell phone.

patentcad

You don't get it. I'm comparing cycling to sports that are simple. Like running. Like surfing. Like swimming. In comparison, you need more gear than you need for a friggin spacewalk to go bike racing in early March. I bought a mid-sized soft back pack (the kind you'd use for a multi day hump up into the woods), it barely fits all the crap I have to take when I go to a race.

genie

...Just ask your mom to check it for you. Isn't she already making sure that you're not running out of gas when driving to the park?

kimconyc

Actually, it's not. Let's say you wake up at 4:00AM for a Race Saturday. Oops, I should pump up the tires. Or Oops, lets lube and wipe down the chain. How long does that take. Let's say you wake up and go crap, my Di2 might not have a full charge. Well, the battery takes approximately 1.5 hours to charge. Oh crap, I just missed my race.

Di2 is really cool IMO but it's sort of an inconvenience adding electronics to a bike, which is really supposed to be mechanical. It's one more thing that can go wrong and on the road, mechanical problems can usually be fixed with a $5 multi-tool or something you find on the road whereas if electronics fail, oops. More than half the time I'm riding alone and the thought of getting stuck 50 miles from home does seem to put me off on this product albeit I would get it if it were significantly cheaper (say a few hundred more than Super Record 11).

kimconyc

Once every 5 days or so. Blackberry lasts quite a while, even with talking.

Don't know about Di2 in real-world situations. I'll ask the owner once he rides his bike more. BTW, the battery indicator theory is bunked. Let's say I'm 50 miles from home and there are tons of hills on the way back; oh great, I have low battery. That's not going to really help my situation. I really don't want to think or worry more than I have to when riding my bike. That's why I like biking; it's simple and gives great enjoyment.

RichinPeoria

Shimano=who cares

kimconyc

I ride SRAM so this might be true, just saying...

DrPete 

Better remove the shifters and derailleurs before your next ride.

roadiejorge 

Like most electronic technology you're probably better off waiting a year or two until they work out the bugs then spend your money on it and be spared the headaches.

kimconyc

They are mechanical. That's pretty much the mechanical limit I'm willing to put up with. But seriously think about it, if you have an "electrical" on the road, how are you going to fix it or who is going to stop and be able to help?

Actually, strike that, I can see it now..."hey, need a spare battery?"

ted ward

you fail to realize the battery lasts for a long friggin time (thousands of miles), gives you warnings waay before it's depleted, and keeps shifting in a low power mode to help you limp home. you would have to ignore low battery signals for weeks before it died on you in a race.