Micheal Blue

If you own a newer Dahon, what's your experience with its reliability? My 2010 Mu P24 has been having many issues: missing weld (bike replaced); misapplied rim tape (rear) resulting in flats; shifting rod in the IGH had to be replaced (problems with shifting); loud creaking noises from the frame hinge (bike shop tightened the hinge, but not helpful much); handlepost hinge having a metal piece that broke off resulting in a strong handlepost wobble (in the bike shop for replacement now). All this since June of last year and 4000 km. I use it for commuting in Toronto. Are Dahons intended for an occasional recreational use only? Do 20"-wheel Bike Fridays have reliability issues, as well?

rhenning

You got what you paid for. I have a 1994 Bike friday and have had zero issues in 15 years. I have replaced things but they would be maintenance items. Tires, cables, etc. I have done a couple of upgrades but more because I wanted to not because it was required. Roger

bendembroski

I don't have any personal experience, but these forums are full of people who regularly use their Dahon's and seem to be perfectly happy with the reliability. (Bike Friday's too)

Azreal911

depends where did you buy your dahon from. Dahons coming from the box NEEDs to be set up buy a good bike technician they are not rideable right out of the box because the manufacturer doesn't do that to cut down on costs to the stores. If you have a good bike store they are to put it together and test it themselves.

Also I noticed you've put in like 4000km's on the bike just last year! wow! good stuff! with that many km's you'd need to check the bike every so often to keep it well maintained. the welds and the handlepost hinge breaking I've nothing to say about that part cause it's actually failed on you. but for the gear hubs and hinges you'd need to maintain those and once you hear the hinge creaking you have to fix it right away before it gets worse.

even with my strida every two months I have to retune my brakes cause the pads get worn on my downhills and I double check my spokes are tight and wheels are true and belt is clean. Never had a problem with it for two years cause i'm always on top of things before they start.

my wife's dahon jack still works great but she's never put in the same number of km's as you. probably 5% of what you did so it's not a good comparison, it took me 2 years to do almost 5000kms on my clown bike (commuting and charity rides)

brakemeister

what maintenance has been performed by whom how many times in those 4000 clicks ?
Usually the dual drive is rock solid for example ( a sram part, not so much Dahon ) a misisng weld is of course something..lol how did you find out that there was to be a weld and it wasnt ?
Whats your weight and riding style ? I fyou use a folding bike like a freerider or MTB with the same style of riding, its not for you for example.
A creaking hinge and a broken handlebar piece ( you are talking about the plastic bumper ? ) could be somehow at least related to overly aggressive riding or too much weight ...Under usual circumstances both can usually be fixed, of course. They should have beed eliminated from the start and re adjusted during regular maintenance so they dont squeak or wobble to start out with...

just saying ....

thor

p.s. you were asking about other brands..... a dual drive for example will give you the smae trouble ( or not ) if it in a different bike. Dahon bikes are not designed/built that they can survice everything without care and maintenance, sometimes expert work is required. Thats not different than any other bike ... ...
next question : why do you see more Dahon complaints than for example Bike Fridays owners complain ? Answer: simple math Dahon makes about as many bikes every wroking day than BF makes in a year .....( a little exagerated but not by much , give them 3 days instead) AND most BF owners are longtime Cyclists who know their way around a bike and constantly working on it and keep it pristime ( as it should be ) They went through all the hardships long ago. I am not saying that a BF is in any way not as good as they seem to be.... I used it just as an example.

Micheal Blue

Thanks for the answers. My commute is 40 km round trip along a bike path and some streets. My weight is 75 kg (about 160 pounds) @ 6'2". The piece that broke off the handlepost hinge is a metal piece that is adjacent to the sliding clamp. How did I found out there was a piece of weld missing? The weld didn't go around the tube all the way, as it did on the other side of the bike. When I went to the bike shop, I could see the other Dahons had a complete weld there. The Dahon has been serviced by the bike shop I bought it at. A shorth search of the Web shows that more Dahon users experience the frame hinge creaking. The bike shop says that unlike BF or Brompton the Dahon uses a vertical hinge - thus there is more stress on the hinge, thus more chance of creaking. BF's and Brompton's horizontal hinge apparently forces the hinge shut naturally, thus there isn't as much stress on it. Yeah, I wish I could reverse the purchase and buy the BF that was there instead. Well, at the time of the purchase I had very little experience with bikes, using a Trek MTB for short recreational trips only.

bored117 

Ouch, sounds like you had lots of bad luck on this. I have 2008 Speed TR (dual drive too) so it isn't that new I suppose (got it new last year). I do have over 4000KM in less than a year and honestly, it has been very reliable over all.
Let's see..
Just ouch. Glad you guys noticed before something happened. These are obviously Q/C issues.

No issues there... you do have to check occasionally and adjust on this piece. It can become loose and that could lead to bent shifting rod, etc if you force it to.

How were you able to identify noise is from frame hinge? Is hinge mechanism greased/lubed? Could it be too tight? If this persists and it is for sure from hinge, I would raise concern as this is one point of failure you don't want to see while riding.

Man... I can't see how this can happen but it did... just ouch.

I hope that is the end of problem for you. I do my through checkup of my bike every 500 miles or so and basic checks on weekly bases (I ride 130-160 miles a week) which probably helps some problem from appearing all together. Hopefully this is end of your problems for next 4000km There definitely seems to be some Q/C issues you had with your Dahon...

Micheal Blue

Wiggling the handlepost or the seatpost wouldn't produce the loud creaking. Pressing
with a hand on the frame hinge would produce a loud sharp creak. The bike shop
didn't seem to be surprised by that, and some people on the Internet report a similar thing. Thanks for your answers.

brakemeister

some people on the Internet ..........
dont let some people on the Internet sway your opinion ...you never know where those some people come from ....
I hear that the shop guy had some kind of opinion as well ( how about fixing the problem instead of being opiniated ???) but no biggy
get that bike fixed up right and enjoy it.... or maybe sell it and get that BF

horizontal versus what ? hinge ... never really heard about that... I would think that the way Dahon has the hinge it would be the strongest the way it is for up and down movement ..there is very very little sideways force working there. I quite dont understand what theories the salesperson is coming up with .....

it sounds to me a little like grasping for a straw...

here some advice.... if you personally dont like the bike ( after 4000 km ??) than you dont need excuses to buy something else. Go for it ! BF and Broomies do have their fans ( they are not without any problems either just maybe different ones )
but in the end it only is important what YOU like. Nobody on the Interweb is riding your bike, the shop " expert" is not riding your bike ( if he would be such a expert he would ave sold you the BF instead long time ago .. right ? )

anyhow this is just a little rant or counterpoint .... nothing personal

thor

Micheal Blue

Brakemeister, I enjoy riding the bike and really appreciate the looks. OTOH it's frustrating to have these problems. I'm not trying to look for an excuse to dump it, though after all these experiences I would get rid of it if I could afford to get a BF.
These reliability issues and some really weird design features make one question if Dahon
lost touch with "the real crowd"; if they actually test their bikes in real-world use.
The weird design features are: the air pump seatpost has a plastic screw-on cap that shakes loose fairly quickly and then the pump's piston falls out and starts dragging on the ground. I contacted Dahon and was told that there was a new design of it that fixed it. Well, Dahon didn't offer this new thing to me, neither did they supply this new fixed thing to their authorized dealers to replace the deffective design...what gives?
The kick stand being too short to hold the bike when the bike carries some load; this is a major inconveniece to someone who uses a bike as much as I do; the bike shop fixed it by replacing it with a different kick stand - a bike shop can fix quickly what a big bike company cannot? ....what gives? While the fold is convenient for allowing a trunk bag to stay attached to the rack while the bike is folded, it leaves the chain exposed on the side of the bike where the bike is easier to grab when I carry it. BF and Brompton hide the drive train in the middle of the fold. Also the constant telescoping of the aluminum seatpost and the handlepost during the folding/unfolding creates black greasy stuff that always comes back after wiping it off and that permanently marks clothes and is difficult to get off the skin. Why don't the folks at Dahon come up with a way to avoid that? They are a big bike company...they must have the resources, if they have the will. These are things that a novice bike buyer like I was a year ago doesn't realize when purchasing the bike. These are issues that one comes to understand with experience.

chagzuki

I've had frame hinge creaking on all the Dahons I've tried. I always put a thin layer of grease on those contact areas so that there's no friction. . . which works but isn't ideal in terms of commuting as you (probably) don't want to be spreading grease on other people's shins. I figure some sort of wax might work better.

I tend to think Dahon should have come up with design solutions to putting the drive train in the middle of the fold. Though I can see how it presents problems that aren't easy to solve.

I take it as a given that I wouldn't bother using a Dahon if I had to adjust the telescoping handlepost/handlebar height for folding: it's completely impractical. I make sure everything is arranged such that it's not necessary. Same goes for the handbar rotation: It's not necessary for me to adjust this, so there's only 3 motions involved in folding, 2 clamps and the seat post.

kegoguinness

I had a Speed P8 for a while. I liked it a lot and it felt really bomber solid to me. The Big Apple tires no doubt played a roll in that. I now have 2 BF's. Be careful of the "grass is greener.." syndrome. I love my BF's but some things anyone should know:

the Tikit is flexy/creaky, though certainly well built. It just has front-end flex due to design. Still love it, but some might not.

Pocket Crusoe--as with all pocket bikes, they are a PITA to quick-fold. They are meant as packable bikes and the quick-fold was certainly an afterthought. The folding stem surely would help this, but tack on another $150 or something for that.

I am sorry you have had to go through multiple repairs. But if you decide to get another bike, please do consider everything in detail. Folder details are massively important as the bikes are so versatile. You definitely need the right combo for your specific needs. Good luck with the Dahon or whatever direction you head!

Micheal Blue

Chagzuki, when you fold the Dahon, you have to move the seatpost and handlepost. I take it to my office, so it has to be folded.
Kegoguinness, thank you for the tips. Yes, it's easy to fall for the "grass is greener on the other side of the fence". It seems that BFs are better designed and made...of course they are much more expensive. I'm not sure I would ride a Tikit, as the 16" wheels may be too small for some of the broken pavement I have to deal with. I like the Llama, though when it's folded it cannot be wheeled along, only carried. That's an inconvenience, but a "good" trade-off for better reliability possibly.

badrad

i bought my 2009 MuSL last January and used on daily commute between Surrey to Downtown Vancouver. I have about 5000 km on the bike. I have to say no major problems that i have seen or experienced with the frame, hinges or drivetrain but i have been doing my weekly sunday evening maintenance on all parts of the bike.

I have replaced the brake pads 3 times over the year, i have stripped down the derailleur a couple times, clean the chain and check/lube all joints, just replaced all the cables this last weekend. There is some wear on the main hinge but considering that i fold the bike at least 4 times a day it's holding up very well.

One little wear item that bugs me - the little plastic tab that holds the handlepost in place in the folded position is worn down and does not always keep the handlepost in a firm position, but considering the number of times i fold in and out, the wear is expected.

Time just about for new tires...

I have to admit, i did buy from JVBIkes, and was originally a bit hesitant with my past experiences with other LBS, but the bike was in very good condition when i received it, so the pre-delivery setup/inspection is a crucial step to the start of a long healthy relationship with your bike.

brakemeister

hehe badrad .... next time you order some tidbits tell me you need a new pin and i will find one and throw it in the package
thor

jur

Hmmm I have my own strong opinion about Dahon... I am convinced they try to cut corners. (EG it took a formally lodged complaint with the relevant safety authority before Dahon issued a recall on that dodgy handlepost, long after it became known as an issue.)

Regarding production quality, the do turn out huge quantities of bikes and the occasional quality issue will slip through quality control. They have a policy that a bike shop must give the bike a good once-over before delivery to catch any issues. But of course even the best bike shop may also miss items.

However, by and large I also think Dahon bikes are of much better quality that the Citizen-class bikes of this world. There are also some very polished products in their line-up. But the frame hinge gets a lot of heavy stress and my personal opinion is that aluminium hinges do not stand daily commuting + folding very well. Commuting is the heaviest duty that a bike can do, especially in bad weather. Aluminium being soft will deform and erode faster.

A creaking frame hinge is usually the result of the hinge faces moving against each other with stress. Only a very tiny amount will produce a very loud noise. A way to cure this is to place a layer of duct tape on one hinge face so that there is something between the metal faces. This will also stop erosion of the metal.

lucille

Michael, can I ask which store did you get your Dahon from? I'm also in Toronto.

If you decide on another bike, make sure to do some research to make sure the bike fits your needs. Folks here are very knowledgeable, and helped me get my New World Tourist last spring.
I bought it as a touring bike and it's great for it. I tried to commute on it, and it wasn't so great. I was taking it upstairs to the office, but the bike doesn't roll and it's too heavy to carry with one hand, while carrying bag, opening doors and pushing elevator buttons with the other. The folding and unfolding is not as quick and easy as I was imagining, and the folded bike is not tiny. It worked great when we were touring and were taking the bike up to hotel room at the end of the day, and it allowed us to take them up to the room in the first place. But for commuting with folding and unfolding multiple times a day, it's just not that kind of a bike. I'm telling you this, because I expect the Llama to be somewhat the same.
Really, Tikit is the commuter bike and I'm thinking about getting one myself. Maybe.

Kegoguinness, how flexy/creaky is the Tikit? I found the stem on my NWT creaky with the handlebar bag on, I wonder if it's more creaky than that?

Micheal Blue

Thank you all for your answers.
Badrad, my Dahon is on the second set of cables, second chain, and now is having a second set of brakes installed.
Jur, thanks for the tip with the tape.
Lucille, I like Tikit very much, and as long as the frame doesn't break, I wouldn't mind a little bit of flex. My concern with its 16"-wheels is how well they handle going over cracks, potholes, bumps, and curbs that are not slanted properly. With my 20" Dahon I had a close call when the front wheel wouldn't roll over a diagonal ridge in the pavement properly and instead decided to follow the ridge. My big (second) bike doesn't have this issue. With wheels 4" smaller this could be even worse; poor-quality pavement, such as on Queens Quay in Toronto, could present a big challenge to Tikit.
I bought the Dahon at Urbane Cyclist. It seems like a nice bike shop, though it's true the saleperson didn't give me much info about the advantages/disadvantages of the folding bike models they had.

bmac.to

Well, Urbane Cyclist is a good bike shop - and the only BF dealer in the area. I also commute to an office in Toronto and I looked at BF, Dahon, and Brompton before making a decision. I ended up with a Brompton but was skeptical about the small wheels as I also have some rough areas I bike over. I am now a convert and dont believe the small wheels are a hinderance.
Throughout the winter, the Brompton does develop squeaks as well which have only required some oil to fix (up till now) - winter has a way of destroying bikes quickly. The only build quality issue I had was the rubber stopper at the end of the seatpost (prevents rolling when folded) was much too loose for very cold weather from the factory - one very cold morning it fell out and luckily enough I noticed.

Micheal Blue

Bmac.to, could you see yourself biking 20 km one way on the Brompton? How's the gearing? Sometimes I bike against 50km/h winds. Would that be doable on the Brompton? Did you buy it at Curbside Cycle? Thanks.

lucille

I haven't tried the 16" wheels yet, but I don't expect them to be that much different from 20". Maybe I'm wrong though.

I was just going to say, that Urbane is the Toronto dealer for Bike Friday, but bmac.to beat me to it.

brakemeister

when you go to a dealer it might be advantageous to ask for the folding bike specialists ( commuter expert ) .....
instead of getting a 16 year old kid who dreams dropoffs, 100 feet jumps, the lates Shimano Carbon plated gizmo to make his 50 lbs dh bike lighter,
or the "italian" hardcore sub 5 lbs .....isini trofeo multi plata del origionale superlativo carbonara guy who spins with 140 cadence all day long and wears a yellow yersey at night..... ( better than a polka dot yersey..... I understand ) ....

you know what I am talking about ?

The reason some ( a lot of ) bike shops have these " characters" serving the paying public is that these folks are truly in it with all their souls and getting paid very little. Its unfortunate but bike shops dont make enough money to really hire experts in customer service. and than slip ups like opinionated, all knowing, coming up with crazy statements, not listening to the customer are unfortunately around.

thor

p.s. before you buy another bike find an owner who let you ride his, or find a store which allows you to testride a bike ( preferably a little more than just around the parking lot )

bmac.to

Yeah, 20km is not an issue - as for the wind, I commuted yesterday which saw those types of winds but my commute is only half of yours.

The gearing is, lets say, interesting. I got the 6 speed (with the +6%) which is split between 3 speeds in the hub and 2 rear cogs. What this means is that for half of the gear steps, stepping to the next gear requires moving two levers. As well, shifting a hub requires you to stop pedaling, and shifting the derailleur requires you to pedal. At first you have spend more time thinking about the shift than you are accustomed to but after a couple of weeks, you become reasonably accustomed to it. The Brompton designers chose this layout to minimize weight and friction (read maircrosoft.com/moofle/pdf/BromptonProductAnnounce2009.pdf for more info). That being said, the gearing is quite wide and I havent ever found a condition that I felt I lacked enough range.

Yup, I puchased it at Curbside after several test rides at both Urbane and Curbside.

badrad

that sounds like a great deal! will certainly do that - do you still have any of the closeout stelvios? i had been thinking to try those out, or go for the durano's.

in the meantime, i further checked the plastic pieces and there appears that the flat spot on the little ball end is more on the top side, so i flipped it over and readjusted the receptacle piece to an used area, so it feels like there is some added friction back to keep the handlepost in place.

last nite i skeletized a friend's donated bike of his Deore parts and is now giving new life to my 2007 Jack-enstein. But now i am wondering - is there a way to install Magnetix to an older frame without the fork mounts? it would be nice to make the older Jack stay folded instead of using bungee cords...

brakemeister

yeah i got special Duranos ( ahem I mean Stelvios ) left ..:-)
dunno about the magnetix.. all you really need is a hole I guess

thor