Again

I was advised by Geoff to continue in a new thread of my own what I started in another one at https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...1#post12864080,
so here goes...
To sum up what I was babbling about before, I bought a pretty beat up Sporttour a couple of weeks ago

cleaned it up a little and took it around the block a couple of times...
the brakes squealed terribly, so I tuned them and cleaned the pads, tuned the gears so I could use them, adjusted seat and bars to fit me better, then took it out again for a short ride, to get acquainted so to speak. And the next day again a bit, to get to know each other a little better...
... and that's when I decided that this sweet old steel frame deserves a second chance at life.
About $240 later (the parts are still in the shipping stage)

I still don't know exactly what else I want to do.
I am not entirely happy about the straight shifters on the down tube.
I know, I know, that is what we had as youngsters, and it served us fine.
But I have used a mountain bike for a few years now,

and it's Ci Deck Plus setup from Shimano just spoiled me.
I ended up calling it "the poor man's brifters"!
Why couldn't I have something similar on the Univega as well, I thought.
Turns out there are several reasons, as the mechanics here advised me: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-as-a-crosstop.
I understand that my cross-top idea is untenable, but why not just the Easyfire on top?

I would have to give up on the new Aero levers I just bought and return them, and not be able to reach the top brakes from the down position, but I hardly ever grip low anyway. I realize the Easyfire can't wear hoods, but maybe the levers can be mounted in a compromise position so I won't be brake-less from below?
Any constructive thoughts on this, anyone?
The main obstacle seems to be that those brake levers don't go with cantilever brakes, but require V-brakes. But I can get myself a pair of Alivios for under $30 I think.

old's'cool

Sounds like you're on a fast learning curve! I'm sorry to say that most of the hardware you are considering is newer than anything I have first hand experience with. If I see any questions that are up my alley I'll do my best to muddy the waters . BTW, we curmudgeons here on C&V are better equipped for answering direct questions composed in 20 words or less (yes/no format preferred j/k).

Whit51 

Again, have you considered bar end shifters?

mainstreetexile 

I doubt that those 'easyfire' shifter/levers will work on a drop bar since they have different diameters and although I haven't seen any of them in person (I'm also more versed in older parts) I doubt they would work as 'through' levers like the cyclocross inline brake levers either.

If you're set on those, you could try trekking / butterfly bars. Since it looks like you already bought the new brake levers and handlebars, I would go for bar-end shifters too. I recently bought a new set of ultegra bar-ends that I'm using in friction mode on my Miyata and they work great so far:

Shimano SL-BS64 Ultegra Bar End Shifter Set (8-Speed)

The suntour bar-cons are pretty nice too, but they get pretty pricey for what they are and I've lost parts off them before (those damned locknuts!).

Again

That's what one of the mechanics suggested as well. Would be just fine, but the ones I have seen on the market are grip shifters, and I want triggers!
Do you know of any trigger bar ends?
This is the bar on order:

Again

Well, that idea has already been shot down by most advisers. Unfortunately.

Don't they also have the wrong diameter, like drop bars?

Does "friction mode" mean "not like triggers"? But it is my down tube shifters (I suppose they can be called "friction") I want to get away from.

mainstreetexile 

Trekking bars are the same diameter and use the same brake levers / shifters etc as flat-bar mountain-bike style handlebars. They just give you a lot more hand positions.

Friction mode means non-indexed / no clicks. The ones that I linked to can be used in both 8-speed indexed mode and in friction mode. I got the 8 speed ones because some people have reported them working in indexed mode with older 6 and 7 speed freewheels with some fine cable adjustments, but I haven't tried that yet since I'm happy just to be shifting without taking my hands off the handlebars and they are currently shifting superbly as they are.

Again

So why on earth can't they make drop-down bars the same diameter! Just to make life difficult for us?

Yes, just like my old ones on the down tube that I want to get away from.
So the bottom line seems to be that now, that I have bought a new ergonomic drop bar there is no way I can have trigger shifters on it.
Although it seems an easy thing to make the clamps on the triggers wide enough so one can screw them on the thicker bars too.
Manufacturers, are you listening?
Doesn't look like rocket science to me.

Again

And then I find this here: https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Handle...9984419&sr=8-7
with three happy customers: https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Handle...owViewpoints=1
It looks like these fit on drop bars, like what I am looking for!

Again

BTW, the new drop bars are 25.4 mm. Is that too thick for any triggers?

Again

Next, I find that most flat bars on the market are 1" thick. Which is about 25.4mm!
If that is the case ANY of the trigger shifters should fit my drop bar, shouldn't they?

WNG

First, welcome to C&V, pull up a seat and enjoy the chatter and company.
Nice classic Univega. It will look splendid once done. As for the drivetrain and shifters....
Yes, those integrated flat bar shifter/levers are very sweet. Nice ergos and performance. But as you surmised, wrong bar diameter at the narrowed cross section. Road bars are are wider. Since your Univega is likely a 6 speed, it's OLD is 126mm. Nice upgrade is a 7 speed freewheel, or if you have a freehub, go upgrade to a 7 speed HG cassette. This may require a freehub body swap if you have an older Uniglide system.
As for the listed amazon 'paddle' index shifters, they are 7 speed, and mount onto the wide portion of the handlebar near the stem. They will work for your upgrade and your ergo bar. You will have index shifting. Other than bar-end index, you only recourse is a set of brifters.

BTW, if you don't need those top-mounted friction shifters, I could use them to get my wife's Schwinn back to its original configuration. Previous owner converted the bike and threw away all the old originals. PM me if you have no use for them and want to part with them.

WNG

No, the 1" portion is only at the interface with the stem clamp. But each narrow down to differing diameters.
Most older flat bar (mtb) and road bike bars started off at 25.4mm (1").
Then came road bars at 26.4mm and 26.0mm.
26.4mm bars faded away, and 26.0mm dominated.
Now comes the modern carbon fiber age and bars were pushed up to 31.6mm for better strength and less cracking. UGH!
So both road and mtb bars also come available in 31.6mm center cross section.

Again

My rear is a 6 speed 16-29, which with the 42-52 front is a bit hard on me uphill. I have found a 14-34 frewheel though which would improve matters: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A2TE9IQP68MWQU
That would be a bit better, but not as good as if I replace the crank with a triple 28-38-48. Then I could get a cheap 13-28 freewheel which gives me an optimal 1:1 ratio on the 28 front with 28 rear!

That sounds pretty good then, and is a solution.
I still don't understand something though. If those 'paddle' index shifters fir on my horizontals, why don't others, like this: https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Acera-...9996664&sr=8-2

Yes, those would have been nice too. Are you saying these: https://www.bicyclebuys.com/item/1428224PART/nt are a possibility? And they could be mounted reachable from below as well?

Again

It seems that by the time I buy the tools to replace chainwheel and freewheel, and possibly risk doing some damage I may as well pay the pros to do it.
Stopped at LBS today to ask for labor cost to do both replacements. They charge me $35.
I can do the derailers myself.
Adding the cost of parts from Walmart it'll come to $100 total.

Shimano Chain Wheel FC-M151 25.00 Shimano Front Derailleur 9.00 Shimano Freewheel 10.00 Shimano Altus Rear Derailleur 21.00
Installation by LBS 35.00
So I think I can now go ahead and order these parts. They are all Shimano products, and should work well with each other.
To compare the new drive train with my current one, here are the ratios at extreme ends:
Now (with Double 52-42, 6-speed 16-29)
Highest gear 42:29 = 1:1.448
Lowest gear 52:16 = 1:3.25
New (with Triple 48-38-28)
Highest gear 28:28 = 1:1
Lowest gear 48:14 = 1:3.428
Worth a hundred bucks? I think so!

old's'cool

Again, your thoroughness analyzing before committing will stand you in good stead. One pointer on bike gear ratios is, we typically converse in gear-inches, which is the ratios as you have calculated times the nominal wheel diameter, in your case 27", I believe. Also, you have tranposed the sense of "high" and "low" compared to cycling convention. So, in gear inches, your chart would be:

Now (with Double 52-42, 6-speed 16-29)
Lowest gear-inches 27*42/29 = 39.1
Highest gear-inches 27*52/16 = 87.8
New (with Triple 48-38-28)
Lowest gear-inches 27*28/28 = 27
Highest gear-inches 27*48/14 = 92.6

The main reason this formula is used, is that it ties back to the days of the "Ordinary" (aka "Penny Farthing") bicycle, where bikes were described by their driven wheel diameter, when there was no gearing involved.


One further tip, many of us find it useful to evaluate the steps between individual gears, as well as the shifting sequences needed to effect a monotonically increasing (and decreasing) series of ratios. I've always done this with home baked spreadsheets, or in earlier times, back of the envelope calculations, but there are now many online or downloadable calculators that I'm sure are easy for beginners to use and understand.

Again

Thanks, Geoff, I appreciate the clarification. I had been wondering how to compare various drive train combinations analytically, and not just by feel. It appears that the numbers reflect the distance of one complete revolution of the wheel. That may well be a more tangible figure for most people to understand.
In any event, the new setup should give me a much improved range, wouldn't you say?
I think the shift sequences are also very even, since the freewheel has no extreme range.

old's'cool

It's true, that's what the numbers reflect, but more particularly, what the numbers indicate are the equivalent wheel diameter of a non-geared bike such as a Penny Farthing.

You've indicated your need for a ratio less than the current 39.1 gear inches, so your proposed setup addresses that; if you don't actually need a ratio higher than the current 87.8 gear inches, then the proposed setup doesn't have a tangible benefit in that direction.
The only way I know to evaluate the shift sequences is to calculate every available/feasible ratio for a given chainring and freewheel combination. Without that effort, a randomly selected combination of chainrings and freewheel cogs may yield a frustrating combination of redundant ratios and uneven steps between the available distinct ratios.

Again

True, since I am not likely to go that fast for fear of running over a rabbit or something! However, it also means that there won't be any need to select the 48 disc for most work, which is not a good idea anyway when one is on a small rear sprocket. I visualize using the 38 as standard, and for smooth chain riding, and slip down to the 28 when my knees give out on a hill.

painkiller

I flat bared my univega and pu a cyclecross type fork so i use the caliper in back and cantilever in front with deore brake levers. still use downtube shifters though you could still put top mount thumb shifters, find a six or 7spd deore shifter on ebay or somwhere

Again

Great for you, but as for me, the fork is one of the reasons I like classic steel frames, and the drop down bar is what makes it a touring bike.
I am pretty sold on getting this Shimano brifter set: https://thebikebrakelevers.tk/shimano...free-shipping/
and the only thing I am waiting for is some forum friends' assurance that they will fit on my drop bar.

bigbossman 

I've a question - will those indexed trigger shifters pull the right amount of cable for your freewheel to shift properly?

EDIT: Nevermind - I see you're replacing the old freewheel with one that matches the shifters.

Just out of curiosity - did you consider and reject stem shifters?

squirtdad

I think your are going to have a problem fitting those..... the bottom line is you are trying to mix apples and oranges... or in this case drop bars (which I like) and brakes and shifters made for flat bars. The design is simply not compatable

It goes beyond bar diameter...even if the bar fits....... where would you mount the shifter and levers.... if you put it in the normal drop bar position you shifting is really awkward. About the only place you could mount them and still have clearance for the break levers would be to out them on the flat close to the stem. This is not a great riding hand postion and you could not use the shifters or breaks from the drops.

I will be blunt, I reccomend dropping the idea of using the mountain style trigger shift on a road bar, they are not compatible in any really good way.

Your best bet (assuming you are updating to a 7 speed freewheel) is to go to the indexed bar end shifters or to go to road brifters https://thebikesmiths.com/product/shimano-st-2300/ (need to double check is the 8sp will work with 7spd like 8sp barcons can.

Again

No, that is what I have now, but my MB has triggers that I love. I thought the brifters still sound more exciting, and convenient. When I first saw the pretty pricey brifter setups on top end bikes at my LBS I was in awe, but never considered spending that kind of money on them. Then I ran into these online, and was instantly sold on them.

bigbossman 

Those specify cantilever brakes. Hmmmm.......... I wonder if there will be an operational problem using them with old side-pulls.