MajorMantra

A few manufacturers have been pushing wider rims for the road for a while now. So who's been riding them? Any reviews?

I'm especially interested in the Velocity A23, but I'd also like to hear general comments from users of the HED C2, Zipp 101, etc. etc.

Are you now convinced of the benefits or was it just hype? Do the wider rims hurt braking performance? I'm not looking to re-analyse the theory of wide rims - we've done that to death - I want to hear actual reports of them in use.

vermilionx

i think there's a minor improvement in comfort... but i was already using 25mm tires before and i didn't really change my PSI settings (85F/90R). my weight stayed the same (133-135lbs).

i have about 700 miles since i switched to my current A23s.

it prolly would have been much more noticeable if i was using 23mm tires beforehand.

canam73

I have a set built with A23s and a set built with the BHS (kinlin) wide, which is the same rim in the Boyd Vitesse. I mainly use them with 23mm tires at 90/100psi and I weigh 175#. I find the cornering grip and braking grip improved. It is most noticeable on high speed corners on not-so-smooth roads where the chatter is much reduced and I have more confidence to lean the bike over. Much of the same effect might be gotten using 25mm tires on standard width rims, although the straighter sidewall aspect when using wide rims at least makes sense to me that it could be helping here.

And for comparison I still have a bike running 25s on 19mm rims also at 90/100psi but I do prefer my wide rimmed wheels.

I'd also like to say that the BHS rims built into what seems to be an incredibly stiff wheel. I have 2 other sets with similar spoking (one of them is the A23s) but the BHS really stands out. It is about 30g heavier per rim, though.

I actually have a new PT on it's way that is going to be laced to a HED C2.

Banzai

And so the circle of cycling product development was complete, and wheel makers "discovered" something that used to be more-or-less normal.

Ricanfred

Good information from one of our wheel experts regarding this topic.

canam73

The next thing you know people are going to start riding steel frames again.

Banzai

I don't see any reason to start talking completely crazy here. Let's keep this civilized.

canam73

My favorite new discovery is the 'custom handbuilt wheel'. They used to just be 'wheels' as when you needed them a separate rim, hub and spokes had to be selected and laced up whether it was by the end user, a shop dude or somebody specing out an initial build.

But ever since people got hooked on the coordinated graphics of 'factory' wheels, hand building is thought of as some kind of black magic and the fella's that practice it are now 'guru's'.

Maybe Mavic pulling out of the wheel component business is really just a precursor to them making bank by opening up the "Mavic Custom Shop" where you can order up wheels to your spec for some exhorbitant fee. If they don't do it, somebody will.

therhodeo

**********????

garciawork

I remember Competitive Cyclist had some absolutely ridiculously priced "Custom Handbuilt Wheels" a couple years ago. They had the usual long, fairly well written copy going on as poetically as possible about the wonders of a handbuilt wheel... they last forever, easy to repair, yada yada yada. Oh, and they were around a grand. Nothing special if I remember correctly. Only reason I have factory wheels is I LOVE 2-way fit. If I could build a wheel with a Fulcrum 2-way rim, I'd be on handbuilts without the goofy spokes and lacing patterns anyday.

ne_dan

Suree

therhodeo

Were those the tied and soldered ones?

JustinNY

I went from 19mm rims with 23c tires to 23mm rims with 23c tires and there is a noticable (IMO) improvement in cornering, comfort (went from 115psi to 100psi) and especially confidence on descents. I also switched from worn out rubino pros to brand new GP4000s' and crappy stock bontrager select wheels to boyd vitesse, so its difficult to know exactly where to attribute the improved ride quality.

Either way, if it provides even a slight improvement in handling or aerodynamics, Ill take the 23mm rim all day. Its aesthetically more appealing and the tire just looks like it fits better. I really just dont see any advantage to using a narrower rim unless you got a fantastic deal on them.

zatopek

Using the same 23mm tires at identical inflation pressures, I find HED C2 rims to be significantly more comfortable and a bit better cornering, especially in wet conditions, than standard 19mm wide rims.

Ricanfred

Those tires (Conti GP 4000s 25mm) made such a noticeable improvement imo to the stock tires on my Bontrager Race stock wheels that I, for the time being, won't be buying any new 23mm wheelset even though I was seriously considering it.

MajorMantra

Fair comment, although running narrowish (23-25mm) tyres on widish (21-23mm) rims is a relatively recent phenomenon isn't it? Back when wide rims were the norm the standard tyres were things like 27x1 1/4 which is about 32mm, i.e. much wider. And 'race' wheels generally meant a super low profile tub rim with a super skinny tub.

carpediemracing 

I've been riding Ardennes wheels (technically Bastognes) since mid 2010. I have the Jets too, which apparently use the same rim under the fairing.

I did the following:
Regular rim + Krylion 23c
HED rim + Krylion 23c
HED rim + Bontrager and now Maxxis 23c tires.

The first two set ups allowed me to compare how the two rims differed (I sometimes took the tires off one to use the other).

As far as comfort goes I'm not a good person to ask. Okay, yes, they're a bit more comfy, but less than the difference between, say, going from a 20c to 23c.

I also tried lower pressures but don't like the way the tires felt in hard turns. I tend to run higher pressures, 95-100 typically, up to 100-105. I've ridden them as low as 70 psi or so.

Durability - they seem fine but I'm not tough on rims. Last time I bent a rim I was drafting a truck at about 45 mph and miscalculated the location of a known manhole cover. That was in 1995 or so. I've weighed, on the Ardennes, anywhere from 155 to 180 lbs. Currently I'm near the top number.

Braking performance - no issues. It's still aluminum etc. The aluminum rims aren't as wide as the carbon ones, but they're still wider than the regular width rims. I use Stingers for racing, and they're 26 mm I think. Whatever, I have to turn my barrel adjuster about 5 or 6 turns between the Stingers and Ardennes. To go to a regular clincher rim I'd have to unclamp the brake cable bolt and pull some cable through, it's a huge difference.

I use Campy Skeleton brakes and don't have issues with clearance on the Stingers (apparently SRAM and DA had issues in 2010). With the Ardennes I never heard of them being "too wide".

carpediemracing 

HED advertised wide rims for about 15+ years so far. Maybe 20 years ago, I don't know the exact date. I saw some ads while going through old bike magazines for the wide rims. I didn't subscribe to the theory then, and in fact at that time I was running 19mm rims on my mountain bike (2.1 to 2.35" tires) with pressure at 20-30 psi for the most part (just before I quit I experimented with 1.5-1.75" tires at 60-80 psi running full suspension).

MajorMantra

Interesting. I thought I'd heard something about reduced braking power because of the slight loss of mechanical advantage that results from having to run the calipers slightly more 'open'.

carpediemracing 

There's more than enough braking power. The limitation is the tire (which is ultimately held to the road surface via gravity), not the brakes (which is squeezed with your hand). This is similar to virtually every car out there, i.e. if your ABS kicks in on dry pavement it means you're overcoming your tire's traction with your brake.

I've done repeated hard braking (down Palomar Mountain, for me a 35 min descent) with regular clinchers, carbon clinchers (DV46c), and the HEDs. No issues with the aluminum rims. The carbon braking isn't as consistent. I prefer aluminum for its consistency in feel and modulation.

arok 

I have Zipp 101 rims with dt swiss compoetition spokes and dt240 hub front and powertap sl+ rear. I can't say much for the ride difference since I'm still running 23's and 115psi. However, what I can say is that I've hit some real nasty potholes/bumps/cracks and have come away with a true wheel and no flats *knock on wood*. No difference in handling, but the 101's do make a bit of a whoosh similar to a deeper section wheel probably b/c of the rim shape.

MarkThailand

I have been riding a custom-built wheel with HED. C2 rims, White Industries hubs, Sapim CX-Ray spokes (28F,32R) now for about a 1000 miles over varied roads in Bangkok and backcountry Thailand.

So far, the wheels have been very smooth running and remained true. The 23mm Continental GP TT tires expanded to 25.5mm on these rims at 105 psi front and 100 psi back - I weigh 200lbs. The tires form a perfect U-shape with the rim and not a lightbulb shape. Cornering is good though I have not really leaned my bike over that much. I demo'ed a traditional wheelset (Mavic Kysrium SL) with a more traditional rim width and Continental GP 4000s 23mm tires but my current wheels were smoother and seem to maintain speed better - though nothing scientific.

Braking with the new 2012 SRAM Red brakes have been excellent, as expected, with the aluminum rims and the brake set designed to accommodate wider rims (Zipp FC's). Feathering and modulating is very controllable and full power stops with back wheel lifting can be achieved.

Lastly, not to hijack this thread, for those with HED. Jet wheels with the Sonic hubs, what are your long term experiences?

Mark

keepamonte

I'm on my second set of A23's as I sold the first because the rear was a powertap and I moved to a Quarq. My team mate is still racing on that set and he loves them. I bought a replacement set from November and can't say enough about them. I've ridden Kysriums for years and these are wonderful. I have some Vittoria Rubino Pro 25's on them and have both crit raced and road raced on them. They corner like a boss! If I could only have 1 wheelset, they would be my choice.

Clipped_in

I've put nearly 5k miles on a set of handbuilt A23's since the first of the year, and they've been great. I'm using Krylium 23mm tires and they have a good ride, yet very solid feel (I'm 6'-3" 190#). Last week, one of the drive side nipples tore through the rim on the rear wheel and had to be sent in for repair. In the mean time, I'm riding a Ksyrium rear wheel with Vittoria Rubino Pro 25mm tire. The ride is fairly plush, but a lot more spongy feeling at times. The tires do corner well as was mentioned above. Of course I'm comparing a 24 spoke 2x DS Radial NDS Ksyrium wheel to a 28 spoke 3x DS/NDS A23 wheel. I'm pretty sold on the wider rims and look forward to having my A23 rear wheel back. I'm not a racer, just a fairly serious recreational rider.

Psimet2001 

Braking sucks on standard calipers. You run a wide bodied rim under regular calipers with this pads - like....hmmm...say swissstop - and they won't return like normal. Luckily SRAM started to understand the issue (I distincly remember Caroline Mani - French Cyclocross champ - hitting up twitter complaining how her brakes wouldn't even work with the Zipp wheels she was given and she was minutes to go to a race....sure that played out well). They came out with an overall wider rim setup caliper in 2012 Red. Good stuff. I have been running them all season on a mix of rims - great performance.

The problem is that getting to the extents of the travel of the caliper arms gets really shifty with respect to the return spring force.