kutz

Hello all,

I'm about to go see an 80's Bianchi road bike – Made in Japan - do not have the model name.
Hi Manganese steel, lugs, chrome fork, light surface rust, seatpost moves, straight frame, They are hard to come by my size 19 inch.
do they weigh under 23 pounds?
$300 too much?

can anyone help me with figuring out the serial number cs599209

thanks

yeah one of the photos is streched.....

clubman 

The serial number is pretty much irrelevant as an entry level Bianchi. Upside is the alloy Suntour components, the downside is the basic steel frame although the build quality looks OK. Not enough detailed pics and info to give a good assessment. As it is, maybe $150 if the drivetrain is not beat up and everything works OK?

edit...I'll bet closer to 25 lbs

zukahn1 

I will answer both of your guestions first high carbon or Magnalite type frame likely means 25lbs give or take couple not under 23lbs. You will find very few vintage road bikes that weigh under 23lbs but I have never had a issue with a legit 25lb bike if everything else is good. Stop worrying about wieght you need to focus on guality and components. Second yes $300 is too high for this bike considering condition issues and the fact this is just a mid level Japanese bike with a Bianchi label don't be suckered buy the bike based on the bike not the brand. Based on the bike it is only worth about half the asking price.

kutz

thank you for the replies.

I'm aware of the focus on the quality of the components, I was planning on updating some of the components with high quality parts from my stash I've been collecting. I was just wondering about the weight since it's a small frame. I rather have light tires and good wheels. I know it's a entry level Japanese bike with a Bianchi label, but from what i read, entry and mid level Japanese bikes from that era where a bit better than the competitors. I agree $300 is too much, but I need a bike for next summer and now is the time to buy before spring comes and bikes my size are hard to come around locally. I plan on riding a similar bike next summer until i save enough to get a high end steel frame, and do a high end build up.

on another note Sheldon Brown mentions:

https://sheldonbrown.com/japan.html#bianchi

While Bianchi is best known as an Italian brand, it was having bicycles built in Japan to its specifications for several years in the late 1980s. These were particularly nice bikes, with better workmanship than the Italian models.

I had an Italian made, small frame, mid level Bianchi in the 80's and it was a sweet ride. Or maybe it's the nostalgia factor.

cheers.

Bianchigirll 

Hello Kutz, welcome to the forums. Can you give me a bit more information, what kind of derailleurs, brakes and cranks?

If this bike is in the US I suspect the fork is a replacement, as until the mid '90s most Bianchis did not feature chrome forks. It looks like an mid '80s bike like a Special or Sport but info on components will help me figure for sure.

If your still in the market for a upperend steel frame, do you mean this summer 2013 or 'next summer' like 2014? I would keep modifications to a minimum and save your money for the better frame. A good overhaul with new tires and cable will make this a very servicable ride. If you already have better wheels I would try and figure a way to allow you to easily mount them for group rides.

wrk101

Serial numbers on most bikes are worthless. +1 Weight > 23 pounds.

I think the quality difference was much more striking in the early to mid 1970s, where lower end bikes from many of their competitors meant steel rims, cottered crank, gas pipe or high ten steel frame, plastic derailleurs, 30 pounds in weight (or more, sometimes a lot more), etc. In the US, the entry of Trek in the late 1970s changed the game, as they did not make a low end bike.


$300 = upper end Japanese bike from that era, not entry level. I've had several Japanese built Bianchis. I disagree with Sheldon, as I do not recall them being any better than a huge number of Japanese brands from that time. I would certainly put Miyata, Panasonic, Lotus, Katakura, and a few more way above them.

Anytime I see a replacement fork, I wonder why? Often, it = crashed bike. Its not like you misplace the original fork. Front wheels on the other hand can get misplaced, stolen, or whatever.

19 inch size bikes are harder to come by, but they are out there. I've probably found 50 in that size in the last several years.

T-Mar

The subject bicycle appears to be a 1985 Bianchi Sport SX. If so, the advertised weight was 23-1/2 lbs and the tubeset is a Bianchi Superset mix of Ishiwaya Magny V and Magny X, with the heavier gauge in the down tube and chainstays. As stated, the fork may be a replacement, if this is a USA model. However, the Canadian models from this period often had full chrome forks, so that is a possibility.

The cosmetic condition is quite rough. The set-up is not good. The stem is almost certainly well beyond the maximum insertion point and saddle has a substantial tilt. Give the cosmetic condition and set-up, the mechanical condition will need to be carefully assessed. Take special care to ensure the stem and seat post are not seized, and can be raised and lowered. Provided it is OK mechanically, $150 would be a top market price. It goes down from there, depending on mechanical and local market conditions.

Glennfordx4

Looks like it's got Suntour AR or ARX derailleurs & Dia-Compe brakes on it, the good is it has DT shifters & not stem mounted like my Japanese Bianchi Tourer. As everyone else stated $300 is way to much, looking at the condition and the components that are on it I wouldn't pay no more then $75 to a $100 for it, and that's if I really had to have it, the seller is just trying to sell the brand name as T-Mar said not the bike as a whole.

Glenn

FastJake

+1

$300 is way too much, even if it was in great condition, which it's not. 19" frames are harder to find but I would still keep looking. $150 would be the absolute top on this bike.

kutz

Like a wandering cat this metal thing followed me all the way home this morning. Needs a good bath and some love.

My Size

kutz

Thank you all for the comments, I sent screen shots of the bike forums comments to the seller (erased your ID’s in the pics). He agreed 300 was too much. Paid 150 plus the premium (50) for a small sized frameset in my local market (14 months of craigslists and only 3 Bianchi's or Japanase makes equivalent were for sale - my size).

It was the seller mom's bike, met the mom

the plan is to have a road bike to go on 2 days credit card trips, no racks, nor camping, just a basic a tool set. I have saved (1000$) only 1/3 of the funds to purchase either a new Gunnar, or a used Colnago. So this Bianchi will have to do for next summer. I already have a single speed road bike and a city bike with racks/trailer to scoot around in the city.

The plan is
refurbish the old bike, tag and put the original parts in a box (to put back if I ever sell it) and install other parts from my stash i bought cheaply on craigslist the past 2 years.

The rust is very light, (I’m good with aluminium foil) the frame is straight, the fork is chrome (Canadian Model?) and original according to the mom.


Total weight 24 pounds.

The wheels are Ambrosio made in italy, they weigh at least 6 to seven pounds. The saddle is not original. The seat pole is an SR, not light weight.
Phase one
take it apart, clean everything, replace all the bearings, grease and adjust everything (I have time, it’s snowing outside). New brake cables, tires, Kool Stop brake pads all round and new bar tape. Assemble go for a quick ride when the roads are clear. Assess the parts I want to put on and label everything that is not going to be used.

For Bianchigirll
I have a Shimano Dura Ace rear hub with 6 speeds, someone was throwing away and gave it to me. I could lace it with a Mavic rim. For the front I have a new Mavic a319/deore hub, spins nicely, until I find a matching Dura Ace hub to build a front wheel. I do not mind investing on a light wheelset to reuse on other bikes in the future.

The list of parts that could be put on:

Seats
-Brooks –honey brown
-Vetta in white with a small tube patch covering a hole
-Suede Avocet touring
Brakes
-light weight Mafac Racers
-lightwight Dia Compe
Cranks
-Shimano FC-S125
-Sugino GT
Rear Derrailleur
-Shimano RSX
-Shimano Dura Ace

Brake Levers
-Tektro aero (fit great in my hands)
-Shimano RSX with integrated shifter
Shifters
-Campagnolo
Front Derailleur
-Campagnolo



That’s it for now will start the work in about 2 weeks.

Cheers from the great White North

Bianchigirll 

If the brooks is serviceable and comfortable to you I would use that but I am not sure the other upgrades will show a huge difference in weight or performance.

The RSX RD might shift a bit smoother, but I think the aggrivation of installing and setting up the Mafac brakes (especially since you need to figure out housing stops) will be more trouble they are worth and you may find you don't like them.

A good overhaul, new cables and brake pads will do more for that bike most of the afore mentioned parts.

Also triple check that atem and make sure it isn't up too far.

kutz

Bianchigirll,

the RSD RD is in great shape, I installed 20$ worth of jockeys wheels, tried on another build a year ago, shifts like butter. The stem is an issue but I have the following from the last build (too big of a frame) that i just sold. Nitto Technomic Stem, Tall, 26.0 Clamp will take care of that. here's a pic of the stem with the Tektro brake levers.



Also my Tektro brake levers are much better than most levers i tried up to now. What a great design efficient and cheap. After the rush of bringing the Bianchi home I'll probably just do the basic rebuild and the necessary changes (tires, brake pads etc. and just ride it). As far as the quality of frames made for Bianchi in Japan I will let you know.
More pics of the build in a few weeks.

Cheers

kutz

Dear moderator thanks for moving the post just saw something similar

kutz

What are these little screws called?



What do they do? Are they common on entry level bikes?


thanks.

FastJake

They're actually more common on higher end bikes. They're dropout adjusting screws and they make wheel installation easier because you just slide the wheel up against the screws and secure. No messing with centering. They're not critical at all but still helpful.

kutz

FJ thanks for the reply, still wondering why they are there, maybe the LBS installed them. This is supposed to be an entry level Bianchi made in Japan. There's no model description (Yes it was sold in Canada, chrome forks?) It's a bit like a treasure hunt an old bike, the more you dig

Bianchigirll 

They are on the Sport SX because Bianchi told the builder to use them. The Sport SX is the top bike in Bianchis "Sport" level bikes and was just below the first Italian offerings.

T-Mar

Ah, so it is Canadian, as I originally suspected! In that case, what you have is almost certainly a 1985 Bianchi Bici II. While I don't have the 1985 catalogue, it's spec'd identically to the 1984 Bici II and I know that Canada retained unique model names for 1985. FYI, original price in 1984 was $350 CDN, so 1985 was probably about $375 CDN.

Yes, those adjuster screws are OEM. The Canadian Bianchi models during this period were spec'd independently from the USA and while they were often similar, the Canadian models often offered some cosmetic and functional upgrades over the USA models. Using different model names and a slightly different specification prevented the average consumer from making a direct price comparison with USA models.

In 1985 for instance, the Canadian dollar was worth about $0.75 USA. The equivalent USA model, the Sport SX sold for $315 USA. Had the Canadian and USA been identical, a lot of Canadians would have been tempted to purchase their Bianchi across the border. This could seriously have affected Canadian sales given that the 3 largest Canadian markets (Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver) are all within a couple hours drive of the border and a major USA city. When you take into account the exchange rate and the spec differences, Canada's Bici II was actually a better value than the USA's Sport SX.

One thing I don't understand, is why you bought this bicycle only to change out the vast majority of the components. Not that the Bici II is a bad frameset, but wouldn't you would have been better off sinking the money into a slightly higher level frameset and bulding that up? I can only assume that there is a scarcity of 19" framesets in your region. BTW, where exactly in Canada are you?

kutz

T-Mar,

TY

for the info, running out at the moment, will reply properly later on.

I'm from the land of BIXI

cheers from the great White North

T-Mar

Gee, I would have thought that you wouldn't have too much trouble finding a nice 19" in that big of a market.

kutz

In the used local market my size it's mostly MTB, hybrids, aluminium, carbon road bikes or cheap ten speeds from the 70's (been there done that). When quality small road bikes from the 80's or 90's appear for sale on-line they sell right away.

Installed my white Vetta seat. The one that came with the bike was not original nor period correct and it was meant for a lady.
Removed the seat post it was cut at one time, it's too short to be used at my height safely. Picking up one Friday. Rebuilding the front wheel hub tomorrow. It does not spin well and I can hear the bearings.
If the roads are clear from snow i'm going for a quick ride Saturday to assess.

T-Mar do you have scans or photos of the Bianchi catalogue with my model or similar?


About replacing some of the parts, well i already have them so no money spent. The brake levers, stem (safety issue), RD and shifters for sure, they are way better than the ones that came with bike. Items not used will be labeled and cleaned for the day I sell and bring it back to stock.
The rest are tires, brake pads, cables, grease, bearings and lots of sweat.

kutz

Thanks to everybody who replied to the post. Sadly the bike was a tad too short for me, sold it to a good home. Took it apart, rebuit all moving parts including wheels hubs, installed new BB (Shimano), new tires Panasela Racer, new bar tape, new stainless steel cables and housing, Dura Ace RD (the original was shot). Rode it for a day very sweet bike, faster than i tought and the frame was better than expected.
Oh well will keep looking.
Cheers