gregaz

Subject:

1983 Bianchi Nuovo Record



Background:

When I first got it, I was excited. (Click here).
When I took it apart, I was intimidated. (Click here).
Now that I have realized I will take this step by step, I am hopeful.

Little by Little:

First step is to solve the BB / Crankset issue. The BB is shot from years of neglect. Even the Campy ball bearings are pitted! Photos provided below. In addition, I have one Bianchi Strada crank (gear side) and one Ofmega. So, my options as I see them are:

1. Find a matching Bianchi Strada 170mm crank, and a replacement BB (the Ofmega is 118mm). What BB's other than Ofmega would work here? I read that some Nuovo Records used Gipiemme BB's. Sheldon warns about Ofmega (here): Old Ofmega/Avocet spindles were quite a bit skinnier/longer even than ISO. There are no modern bottom brackets that work with old Ofmega/Avocet cranks.
2. Upgrade the whole thing to a Campy Nuovo Record or similar, with a cartridge BB that works with the new cranks. Obviously the pricier option, but may be easier to source?

BTW, how do I know if I have Italian thread or English thread cups?

Thanks in advance!

The Photos:

** Don't do this at home!

ThermionicScott 

Yow, that BB was put away wet more than once.

The threading should (ideally) be marked on the outside of the BB cups, like this:



where 36x24T means Italian threading. English would be 1.37x24T.

gregaz

Just checked ... NOPE!

onespeedbiker

All the older Italian made Bianchi frames (the Nuovo Record included) use Italian BB. Further evidence is the the spindle has "Ofmega-70 C" markings and Italian BBs uses 70mm spindle. Finally, the drive side cup of an Italian BB threads in clockwise (standard thread), the other likely threading is BSC, which has reverse threading on the drive side. I you remember removing the drive side BB cup, and it had standard threads, it's Italian.

jiangshi

70 is Italian, 68 is English. You took them off, so unless one side is reverse threaded, it must be Italian.

gregaz

Thanks. I am pretty sure both came off normally, and then there is the 70 marking so Italian it most likely is. I am guessing this VO BB would work? But then comes the issue of taper - it says that it's JIS taper, meaning my Strada cranks would work? Would something like a Campi NR work?

Bianchigirll 

If by Strada you mean Campagnolo cranks No the VO BB will not work. CampI is ISO taper. Also your Ofmega area totally different taper. With older crank sets, like a Campi NR/SR and your Ofmega you need to be aware of offset on the spindle. Normally the spindle will be longer on the drive side to alow for the dish of the spider arms.

I think an older 600 or 105 crank would look OK. Take your BB and cranks and check around some of the local shops. You might find a decent condition take off crankset and BB that will work.

JohnDThompson 

Ofmega cranks used a narrower spindle end than other manufacturers, so finding a replacement spindle that allows the arm to seat deeply enough might be a problem. The difference isn't huge, but an ISO spindle would be a closer match than a JIS spindle:



Source: Sutherland's 4th Edition

gregaz

Good Lord! No wonder I was so confused. Just read through everything here and a few articles that Google and BF search brought my way and my head is swimming. Why did this BB have to be so busted?!

For the sake of anyone that clicks here and is interested in the JIS taper vs. vintage Campagnolo discussion, here are a few helpful links:

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-a-JIS-spindle
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2013/0...s-demystified/
https://www.compasscycle.com/images/skf_bb_chart.pdf

Based on what I see, the older NR stuff was actually closer to a JIS, and might work, but to play it safe, I would get a shorter spindle (116mm vs. 118mm). OR, I would get a VO BB with the JIS taper threads, and something like 600 Arabesque, or Dura Ace EX (which looks just like Campi / Ofmega), like @Bianchigirll suggested above.

gregaz

I guess my follow up question, is whether I can just buy a matching Campagnolo BB and cranks (like this closed auction), and whether they would all work with the Bianchi? Could I reuse the cups for the BB? Or would Campi have matching ones?

onespeedbiker

First, the standards for BB shells have stayed the same (Italian is Italian, French is French and BSC/English is BSC), so if you have a frame with an Italian BB shell, any Italian BB will fit, it just needs to be matched with the right crankset or more commonly visa versa; it's nice when the crankset and BB are combined in the same auction. So you can use any crankset you want with your Bianchi as long as all the parts are the same make, the bottom bracket cups are Italian, and the spindle is the right size to work with the cups and crank You can try to mis-matched brands, Campy spindle with your Ofmega cups, but it's usually comes down trail and error to see if they work. There are a lot of vintage Campy cranksets out there that would work on your Bianchi; you just need to find an Italian Campy BB with the right Campy length spindle . It is also not unusual to piece a bottom bracket together, but you really need to know what you are doing. If you think the square taper standards are complicated, take a look at this https://www.minortriad.com/campagbb.html.

ThermionicScott 

Most of the time! My '87 Bianchi (not Italian-made) has an English-threaded 70mm BB shell, and the original spindle had a 55mm center section.

gregaz

Chombi

When they say "Old style" Ofmega, does it include their Mistral crankset, the ones with the cool angular bends on it's spider and aero look to it? In other words, does the Ofmega Mistral crankset also require an Ofmega spindle with the longer tapers? or would something a Campy NR spindle (standard ISO taper) work with it?

gregaz

I don't know if you are asking me or not, but from my research, Campagnolo changed to ISO taper from proprietary taper sometime around 1994. Googling pictures of MIstal makes me think that it was made in the past 10 years or so. So, my guess is that it's normal ISO, but this is 100% a guess! I would see if you can find any info on if/when Ofmega changed to ISO taper, and that ought to give you your answer. Cheers!

squirtdad

I went through this with my 84 torpado....there is simply nothing 100% definitive out there.

this is what I believe to be true (or what I base the wrenching on my bike on)

the ofgmega of this time is a campy clone, and it not the narrow taper used on "older Ofmega" it is ISO taper

The spindle is like a campy, is not symmetrical

it is impossible to find an intaliant threaded, cartridge Bottom bracket with a long enough ISO taper spindle unless go the phil wood route.

Sheldon says you can use a JIS spindle..... https://sheldonbrown.com/bbtaper.html

I looked at the interface on the shimano jis bottom bracket that was on the bike...and was not personally comfortable with the amount of non connection, but I am clyde so the amount of pressure on the crank is considerable

I ended up using a ofmega BB and spindle, courtesy of Bianchigirll.... they are pretty hard to find.

I thinks you could use a campy BB/spindle or replace the whole set up with campy

gregaz

Thank you SO much for sharing your experience!!! It completely falls in line with what I have been reading online for the past couple of days, and it has been A LOT!!!!

At this time I believe I am going one of two ways:

** The reason is that my crankset is not even matching, and I haven't been able to find either piece to match my set, so I need to get a new set anyhow, and may as well go Campi. AND the Ofmega stuff (cranks and BBs) sells for as much as Campi on eBay, so I may as well go Campi.

1. Campi BB and Campi crankset.
2. VO BB (link here) and Campi crankset.

*** VO website doesn't say, but further Googling says that their BB's are symmetrical, so that's out ... Phil Wood can be had as asymmetric, but $140?! Yikes!

In both cases the question becomes what length spindle to get? My (jacked up) Ofmega spindle is 118mm. BUT, that's the right spindle for the Ofmega crankset - I am assuming this will change for Campi? What length spindle did you go with? Did you replace the crankset of keep the original one (did you have the panto Bianchi Strada one)?

Chombi

The Mistral Cranksets were actually made around the mid 80's. Not so old, but still, not new either that it makes me suspect that it might still be within "old" Ofmega standards...... but I dunno.....
I'm asking because I bought an Ofmega BB for My Mistral crankset with Italian cups and a 116mm spindle marked "70" to match the BB shell on my Italian threaded bike. I test fitted the crank and BB to the frame and without tightening the spindle bolt, the inner 42T ring seems too close to the drive side chainstay, so I'm thinking, that maybe I shouldn't have needed to get an Ofmega BB for the crank afterall??....

gregaz

Well, the reply below suggests that even 80's Ofmega stuff is not the weird "old Ofmega" stuff Sheldon references. I read somewhere that Campi stuff is broken into pre-1977 and post-1977, perhaps Ofmega being Campi clone is the same? Found the references here and here. *** These links lead me to believe that if I go Campi, I should get a 116mm BB.

squirtdad

Not claiming expertise.... but based on what I learned, I think that if you go campy all the way you would do a 115 spindle assuming similar year..... if you go newer it changes. it is probably best to try to match crank and BB as close as you can....

there are about a million possible campy bb (looking at velo base) this looks close to standard

https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...m=119&AbsPos=5

velobase has omega at 118.5 spindle..... if you look you clearly see what i mean about the spindle not being symetrical
https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...m=119&AbsPos=1

The VO BB has a JIS spindle, which depending on the year may or may not be an exact match campy crank. (see the sheldon brown link previously) you migh also need to use a spacer to get a good chain line as the VO bb looks symetrical.... (edit the VO spacer won't work with italian BB, i have seen people cut them (think lock washer) and use them that way) my guess is 116 mm in the VO

in my case the spindle was the 118 (as best as I can remember). I kept the ofmega cranks as they were in good shape and had torpado pantograph (along with panto seat post, stem, seat stay, and top of fork)

gregaz

Update posted here.

Road Fan

I asked VO to measure a JIS BB I was interested in, and found it to be highly assymmetrical, much more so than the seemingly identical Shimano. I presume VO BBs are designed for some VO crank or other, but they don't say that, either.