Scooper

I really didn't chime in here to bash CF. The thread title is "Why do you prefer steel frames"(?) and I answered initially without mentioning other materials. It wasn't until you brought up the Crumpton that I felt the failure mode of CF and the possibly higher failure rate of extraordinarily light CF frames should be mentioned. I concede that CF construction methods have improved, and that elongation has slowly crept up from 1%-2% to ~3%, but that's still awfully brittle so that the catastrophic failure mode remains. In fact, all CF manufacturers specifically warn about the failure mode of CF and how it differs from ductile (higher elongation) metals like steel, titanium, and aluminum.

Here are three examples of CF frame failures, and all three were sudden and catastrophic and from the descriptions, were caused by minor road hazards (small rock, shallow pothole, etc.).



Here’s the story on the Scott CR1 Team:
https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/320405-safety-issue-help-required.html



Here’s the story on the Pinarello Prince:
https://forums.roadbikereview.com/sho...d.php?t=158543

Another Pinarello.





Here’s the story on the Giant TCR
https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/451756-carbon-explosion-crashed-my-tcr.html

I understand that these photos and descriptions don't prove anything, but there are enough of these combined with the known failure mode of the material to cause me, personally, to avoid riding CF bikes until there's a significant improvement in elongation.

Just my $.02. YMMV.

orangeology

i like steel because of its straight-forward-minimal-classy-sharp-no-bull-**** aesthetics.
i like steel because i feel less guilty messing around it—sanding and repainting and polishing and buffing rust and so on.

Scooper

An excellent point.

https://www.colnago.com/materials/

cobrabyte

I don't care if steel is lighter or heavier than carbon fiber

I don't care if it is easier to repair than other materials because honestly, I'm not going to bother with the repair, I'll just replace the frame

I don't care how "cheap" it is, I've paid plenty for some of my frames

I like how they look, but I've seen beautiful bikes made of other materials

Yet for some unknown reason to myself, I do prefer steel over other bike materials

eja_ bottecchia

Scooper, thanks for the link to the Colnago website. I had considered a Bianchi Oltre instead of the C59, but when I saw the ridiculously thin seat and chain stays I demurred and went with the C59.

I will be in San Francisco early in November to visit my daughters. I will probably bring the C59 and test it against SF's hilly streets.

eja_ bottecchia

Yikes!

Glad there were no colnagos in the pictures (though now that I mentioned it, I am certain that someone here will find a pic of a broken CF Colnago).

Blue Belly

The fact is that any material pushed to the limit of weight will eventually fail. I've broken steel frames & seen plenty of examples of frame failures on aluminum, ti & carbon frames. Nothing lightweight is going to be safe from failure.

RaleighSport

Because I keep scoring awesome steel frames for next to nothing or nothing.

flash2070

I like steel bikes because steel is like a classic love song from the 60's and 70's. The modern songs of today very seldom capture the heart and soul of a singer/songwriter, like the great singer/songwriters from the 60's and 70's. Those were songs created with passion, ardent love, and true feelings, they touched your soul, and you instantly felt the love/or heartache that the singer/songwriter was feeling. With steel, you can feel and see part of the builder's passion for his special creation in the quality of the ride, and the lugwork. To me, modern bikes lack the soul of the builders of those beautiful steel bikes. :-)

Flash

noglider 

I actually don't prefer steel. It just happens to be all I own. I'm open minded to other materials.

Scooper

True, that. The issue for me - as I've repeated several times - is the failure mode; CFRP can fail catastrophically and without warning. Steel almost always gives you a hint that it's going to fail.

jimmuller 

I just don't like asplosions. I've never eaten escargot and I know I don't like it.

iab

Does it matter?

I'm willing to bet every one of the bikes in the photos you supplied catastrophically failed during a crash. The crash caused the failure, I really doubt the failure caused the crash.

Crash a steel frame, get a bent fork. Plenty of pictures on this very forum with the 100 billion threads titled "Does this fork look bent?". Crash a carbon frame, get a snapped fork.

Either way, you still crashed, steel or carbon.

Blue Belly

I suppose you are right, if we are taking about tubing. What about a rear dropout on a steel frame? Many lightweight steel frames had them ground pretty thin to remove weight. Not trying to cause problems. I just felt there was some "bashing" starting up. No materials are free from problems. I have a Ti stem that has a nasty crack in it. Luckily I caught it before it failed. I've seen seat tubes on aluminum frames break in half. Limits will always & have always been pushed. Weight, or lack there of, sells. People are obsessed with stats. Just like Ford Trucks vs Chevy. One says it has more horsepower than the other & that's a huge selling point. Truth of the matter is, gearing & vehicle weight is more important than 5hp. But no one asks those questions. Not does the guy who gets to boast that his bike is .5lbs lighter. Were so obsessed with 1 number that a mfg will cut corners to make that number. I'm not saying that they intentionally build weak frames. It's just the inevitable risk of making that sale.
Facts being facts, they have always pushed the limits of safety & they always will.

squirtdad

I like steel because primarily because i like the aesthics of a classic triangle frame with level top bar and classic stem.

I also like the ride of steel, compared to aluminum.

I will admit that some carbon bikes are really sexy, but the ones i have liked the best look close to the classic look https://www.cervelo.com/rca/

I also am not sure that carbon is reliable, at least in a light build. Put it this way I would never buy a carbon bike that did not have a valid warranty. I have no doubt that carbon can be made bomb proof, but at a weight and stiffness cost.

I am not 100% retro grouch..... I want a kirk custom frame, sceaming metallic chartreuse paint, white luglining and ultegra di2 for a custom grail bike.

that's me...you may be different.

Scooper

To me it matters. There's a difference between a bent frame or fork that’s still capable of being ridden and one that disintegrates beneath you after hitting a shallow pothole or small rock in the roadway.

EDIT - Here is JaRow's description of the pothole he hit that caused the Giant TCR frame to fail:

iab

Except in both cases you crash. Your body gets injured either way.

noglider 

Oy.

Scooper

Do you honestly believe a steel frameset would have crashed and broken (or broken and crashed, depending on the cause and effect) as a result of hitting that 1.5" deep pothole? I don't.

In any case, I've said my say and won't further defend my position to avoid riding CF frames until there are advances in the technology raising the elongation numbers.

iab

Yes. A defect is a defect. You think a defect in lug construction would never result in failure when hitting that pothole? Fercristsake, brazing is literally only a form of glue.

Or do you actually believe every CF frame will assplode when you hit a 1.5" pothole and the one that did break didn't have a defect?

droy45

I have alluminum and lugged steel bikes. The lugged steel ones ride smoother and feel springy. They are more comfortable and I love the looks lugged steel frames with their classic triangle geometry. I do not like the newer ones that are double butted with no lugs. Steel rules in my book.

Scooper

I don't know if your reply is tongue-in-cheek or serious, but I'll assume you're serious.

The large majority of front-end crashes of lugged steel framed bikes result in bent fork blades, a bent steerer tube at the fork crown, and wrinkled top tube and down tube on the underside of the tubes in the butted section just behind the head lugs. Failure of the lug itself or the lug brazing is extremely rare. The blades, steerer and TT and DT bend, but rarely separate like CF does.

This photo is from yellow jersey and is typical of damage to a lugged steel frame after a really severe front end hit.

Blue Belly

Hate to see what the wheel & fork look like ! Ouch!

Beic

I'm an engineer and I deal with stresses, ductility, welds etc in steel, aluminium and other materials.

Me personally, I'd never ride a carbon bike, I'm even wary of my aluminium frames (I'm Clydesdale size)

I'm currently looking at steel frames for my next purchase(s).

Beic

Blue Belly

One thing to note, which I found out recently. A layer of Kevlar dramatically improves the strength of CF. Kevlar does not fracture as easily. Funny thing I found. I have a bora that was destroy. At a break in the rim you can see Kevlar. It's a yellowish color. It's down in the spoke bed of the rim. Just interesting to find. I know the Merckx AXM had Kevlar in the frame. He advertised it as so.