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How Far To Bend An NR Caliper Arm?

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How Far To Bend An NR Caliper Arm?

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Old 10-13-13 | 03:56 PM
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How Far To Bend An NR Caliper Arm?

Just put a set of Kool Stop, salmon (Campy replacement pads) on a set of NR brake calipers. These are on a Ritchey touring bike w/ VO Raid rims. I had a set of Dia Compe Grey Matter pads on there previously. They stopping power was nothing to right home about. I have a set of the Kool Stop's on another bike, same brakes & same rims. No problems.

The new set howl like crazy on the frnt. I cleaned the rim walls w/ a green scrubby and some Simple Green to make sure there was nothing on the rim. I also cleaned the pads. Still squealing. I know you can bend a brake arm to add some toe but was unsure if there was a specific amount of "adjustment" that should be used?
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Old 10-13-13 | 05:24 PM
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Secret- Bend the mount bolt a tad, enough to produce a 2° twist to the left. Squeal gone.
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Old 10-13-13 | 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage
Secret- Bend the mount bolt a tad, enough to produce a 2° twist to the left. Squeal gone.
On the pad holder, right?
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Old 10-13-13 | 05:34 PM
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I buzz the pads on a bench grinder or file toe into them when I have calipers I'd rather not bend. Make sure there's no excess center bolt play.
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Old 10-13-13 | 05:52 PM
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You can also sand the rim.
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Old 10-13-13 | 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by fender1
On the pad holder, right?
No, the mounting bolt for the whole caliper. I learned this by having a bike where the fork brake mount hole was off. That bike never squealed from the front brake. As a test, I took another bike that did squeal and whacked the mounting bolt, (yes, you have to tear down the brake) voila, no more squealing. All were Campagnolo Record brakes, very few bikes without.
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Old 10-14-13 | 05:42 AM
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Now that, is very interesting.
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Old 10-14-13 | 07:53 AM
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^ Yes it is. So one pad winds up toed out a bit?
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Old 10-14-13 | 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Pars
^ Yes it is. So one pad winds up toed out a bit?
Yes, that is the implication. Counterintuitive to standard practice.
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Old 10-14-13 | 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by repechage
Yes, that is the implication. Counterintuitive to standard practice.
Yes but if the fork hole is straight all it'll do is over toe one side and under toe the other.
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Old 10-14-13 | 10:03 AM
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.......when it breaks, wherever you were a little bit before that.
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Old 10-14-13 | 10:46 AM
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After bending the brake arms with limited success, I tried and succeeded with a very thin washer cut in half and mounted under the rear of the brake shoe, against the mounting bolt (to make this easier coat the washer with some sticky grease so it will stay put). Pads are perfectly toed in with no bending, grinding or sanding.
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Old 10-14-13 | 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
.......when it breaks, wherever you were a little bit before that.
That is usually how I figure things out......
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Old 10-14-13 | 11:46 AM
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Now, if someone made a tapered washer.....
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Old 10-14-13 | 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Angelo
Now, if someone made a tapered washer.....
Those would come in VERY handy! But absent that, I may try the half washer.
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Old 10-14-13 | 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by rootboy
Now that, is very interesting.
I agree. I'm guessing that the vibration on one side cancels out the other side, or some such.
https://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/brake-squeal.html
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Old 10-14-13 | 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by miamijim
Yes but if the fork hole is straight all it'll do is over toe one side and under toe the other.
Yes, it does toe one side in and the other out but it works.
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Old 10-14-13 | 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage
Yes, it does toe one side in and the other out but it works.
Seems like a pretty half-assed solution.
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Old 10-14-13 | 02:41 PM
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Believe it or not, but one French company did it right in the 80's. Mafac/Spidel, actually designed their pad holders for their sidepulls to be canted couple of degrees in relationship to their caliper arms to produce the required toe-in out of the box. They even beveled the edges of the brake blocks in their molds so you don't have to do any sort of grinding before you mount them on.
One of the reasons I love my LS2 Spidel sidepulls. It had been a plug-and-play on all of the ones I put on my bikes since the 80's.....no judders, no squeals right out of the box!
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Old 10-14-13 | 02:42 PM
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I had some of those finned aluminum Mathauser brake shoes back in the eighties and they came with tapered rectangular washer/shims to adjust toe in. I don't have them anymore but they still might exist somewhere in the world.
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Old 10-14-13 | 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd
Seems like a pretty half-assed solution.
But without fear of cracking things. Fortunately we are discussing Campagnolo brakes, if you try to bend a Universal brand arm... you bend the mount bolt or better than 50/50 the aluminum will fracture. Your kindly editorial comments thankfully precede your frequent attitude toward things.
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Old 10-14-13 | 03:29 PM
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I'm interested in the physics of it. Should all bikes have had a slightly off-center bore through their fork crowns?

I'm no Einstein but it seems like one pad slightly toed in and one slightly out might just work. The infernal squeal might be because pads are too perfectly aligned parallel to the rim.

How's that for a half-assed theory?
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Old 10-14-13 | 05:27 PM
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Kinda strange, I've never had a NR caliper squeal, at least if the pivot fit the arms properly and teh bolt was drawn up correctly. But I've always used original Campy shoes on them.
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Old 10-14-13 | 05:32 PM
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I slipped in KS (black) pads, in the Campag holders, and I too have no squeal .
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Old 10-14-13 | 07:43 PM
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The squeal is gone, I did the following:

Very light sand to the rims with 100 grit paper, very slight bend to the right brake arm and tightened down the mounting bolt. The mounting bolt was pretty loose, like Jim had mentioned and I am guessing that may have been the main culprit. I did the other stuff first. Works well now.
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