Atlas Shrugged

Having such clarity over issues the vast majority of the world seems to miss must have given you untold levels of success and fulfillment! Thank you for at least sharing this insight with the gullible and misinformed rather than keeping it to yourself.

Jeff Neese

Quite the opposite. It's not denying their existence, it's recognizing that they've been here all along.

livedarklions

Well, considering the statement he was correcting was in the very first sentence of a long post that extrapolated from it, you GAS apparently. Your sarcasm is an own goal--if the point wasn't worth making, why did you bring it up?

You basically accused everyone who has both a CX bike and a gravel bike as having fallen for marketing tricks. Your premise was that they're pretty much the same bike, and that's just wrong. There's some overlap in function, but each of them is suited for something that the other one isn't. If you didn't GAS about the specifics, don't make the broad accusatory argument based on the specifics. People don't like it when they get accused of stuff for stupid reasons.

Jeff Neese

Yes, it has helped on numerous occasions, to see through marketing hype and jargon, and look deeper into actual product distinctions. Why exactly is that an air fryer? Oh, right. They include a wire rack with a regular convection oven. But couldn't I have just bought the wire rack? Sure.

Why is that a gravel bike? Oh, I see....

livedarklions

Seriously! I mean who doesn't have a touring bike just lying around?

What the hell, let's just make the point that pretty much any type of bike can be made more suitable for another use by changing the components. Obviously, the notion that there are different degrees of suitability and that a bike can be specifically designed to perform a particular function very well is just marketing hype (insert sarcastic gesture here).

Eric F 

The terms "gravel bike" and "gravel riding" weren't born in a marketing conference room. They evolved from the riders and the events that grew from people riding their bikes together on dirt roads. The word "gravel" was used to differentiate the style of riding/event from road or MTB. Those riders started figuring out what features are functional/performance improvements for that kind of riding. Manufacturers noticed, responded, and joined in. It's not really different than MTBs. Also similar to MTBs, there has been an evolution of sub-categories within the larger sub-category.

I'm not sure why you chose Surly as your baseline for this discussion. Their marketing spin is intentional and targeted. What makes a bike a "pavement bike"? That sounds like a made-up marketing term.

staehpj1

I'd have let it lie if your implication was that the bikes were similar, I can agree that there is some similarity. But that statement (We used to call it cyclocross) implies equvalance between the racing activities when there is very little similarity. Anyone who has seen a cyclocross race and a gravel race would know that. Cyclocross involves running while carrying the bike up stairs, jumping barriers, carrying when the mud or sand is unrideable. Races are typically multiple laps and take about an hour. Gravel races are typicically all riding over a long course and often much longer distances. They most often invole pack riding and often team tactics, much more so than cyclocross.

Maelochs

So ... I had a touring bike ... I changed the tires .... and the fork, and the wheels, and the stem and the bars .... and the saddle and seat post .... and the brakes .... and then the frame ... and Voila! I had a gravel bike.

Maelochs

Or, to be more clear .... enough of this nonsense.

prj71

Sometimes true. I've compared some geometry of gravel bikes and road bikes at times. Some seem almost identical and the only real difference being that the gravel bike will accept wider tires.

PeteHski

No, they haven’t been here all along. Just because you could ride gravel roads on other bikes doesn’t make modern gravel bikes less relevant. Mountain bikes had different geometry and flat bars, suspension etc. Road bikes didn’t have enough tyre clearance or disc brakes. Cyclocross bikes were focused on short, mud fest racing. Hybrids were mostly flat bar mashups with no real focus on anything.

There was actually a big hole in the market, which has now been filled.

PhilFo 

I halfheartedly apologize to anyone who felt that I “accused” them of anything; though I will stand by the points I made, as the fact of the matter is that you can stuff the widest tires you can on your road bike, CX bike, TT bike, track bike, whatever, and call it a “gravel bike”. John Tomac rode a “gravel bike” when he stuck a Cinelli drop bar on his Yeti. It’s all pretty much the same if the frame can fit the tires and you don’t want folks to think you’re on a flat bar boardwalk “hybrid”. You can do 100% of the riding you want with a bike that existed long before the marketing term “gravel bike” came into being. Years ago, right after I moved to Philly, I rode a DeRosa “gravel bike” up and down the Wissahickon because I could.
The bike barely matters, it’s the rider that does, but if the placebo effect is that strong and a rider needs the label to justify their expenditure so they can tackle that dirt road, more power to them. I’m sorry y’all may feel accused but you can also ride on the same trails and roads using a British 3 speed if you were so inclined.
This is the same debate I’ve seen about cameras, when the end product is a photograph, the gear doesn’t matter very much (the exception being cameras with lens and/or film plane movements, and underwater gear).

Eric F 

Yes. I remember all the carbon-framed bikes with drop bars, disc brakes, 1x drivetrains, mounting points for a multitude of bottles and bags, and clearance for 50mm tires from my youth.

PhilFo 

Aside from disc brakes and carbon fiber frames, that sounds a lot like early club racers.

Jeff Neese

Just that Surly was a quickly-found example. Trek, Giant, Specialized, and Cannondale all have links you can click on and entire sections called "Gravel Bikes". Surly does not. You have to go a little deeper and read about their "pavement" bikes to learn that fitted with the right tires, several of them are also perfectly suitable for gravel. And yeah, pavement bike is a strange term too. Not pushing Surly and I don't own one. I do think that Surly sells to a more experienced and sophisticated customer, who can see through most marketing jargon and would maybe even roll their eyes if Surly started hawking "gravel bikes".

mstateglfr 

Yes I am well aware of the term. That term is usually used when someone takes an old Trek 90s hybrid or a similar old universal steel frame, slaps some budget components on that they had in their bins, and then finishes it off with handlebars that cost as much as the entire rest of the project along with some shellacked twine for 'authenticity'.
That, to me, is very different from the guy in the video who has a really neat and creative bike, but its hardly a 'poor man' anything.

Atlas Shrugged

You are helping shorten this winter, that's for sure. Three of my bikes have substantial overlap; a 2020 S-Works Roubaix, a 2019 Diverge Pro and a Niner RLT Steel; each is set up for its particular use, and I don't regret purchasing/owning them. I enjoy the silly luxury of having the right tool for the job, a long-distance endurance road ride, a longer mixed surface ride or a multiweek credit card tour. But we all understand that this whole forum is laughable on the continuum of first-world issues and attempting to make judgements of other persons decisions is silly.

badger1

There are times -- not many, but there are times -- when an emoji will do nicely by way of response. This is one of those times.

Eric F 

You are correct that you CAN ride the same rides on a different bike. What you seem to be missing is how modern gravel bikes are optimized for their intended purpose...which is really no different than any other bike. My road bike is optimized for being efficient on the road. My MTB is optimized for handling rough terrain in the dirt. A beach cruiser is optimized for slow, easy comfort. Some of us enjoy the specific features that are included in a modern gravel bike, and how that enhances - or expands - our experience on a bicycle. I ride routes on my gravel bike that I wouldn't do on any of my other bikes simply because of what things the gravel bike does well that is different from my other bikes. The change of scenery/approach is refreshing to me, and helps keep cycling fun and exciting.

PeteHski

So by the logic of this argument, there is no point in having any modern tool designed specifically for the job. Just make do with whatever compromised bike you can cobble together.

mstateglfr 

What is the debate even about? You have moved the goalposts so many times in this thread alone that I genuinely dont even know what you are 'presenting'. That should tell you something- you lost your audience due to confusion and straight up incorrect claims. Gather your things, reassess, and try this again in a week.

As for 'gravel bike' being a made up marketing term with no real distinction...so what? Lets say you are correct. Cool- you are correct. Now what? What has changed, besides you no longer posting rants? Nothing. Nothing has actually changed. It doesnt matter what the category is called.

Here are some actual truths, based on you know, reality.
- 'gravel' is a very wide ranging category. It encompasses everything from lightweight aero designed wide tire road bikes to beastly 2.5" lugged tire bikepacking setups meant to support someone for weeks on the road. It is OK for the term to be really wide ranging. If you want to narrow it down, fine then- gravel race bike, gravel bike, gravel adventure bike. There- 3 subcategories for you to write a dissertation on.
- 'gravel bike' wasnt created by a marketing company. The entire segment also wasnt created by a brand's marketing department. People rode on dirt roads and gravel roads for a long time. Races started happening. Races became a bit more popular. The alternative style of the activity as well as the endurance nature of the races was appealing to others. As popularity began to grow, brands took notice and started designing things to better suit the activity(frame, brakes, tires, tape, bars, etc etc. Bike brands saw a new segment emerging and jumped on it because it could make them money. And now here we are. Thats the reality, no matter how much you want to claim otherwise.

Eric F 

Surly is heavy with marketing jargon. It is just different jargon than most of the big-name brands. Being different is intentional because that's the vibe they promote.

mstateglfr 

Dude, 90% of Surly's appeal is based on marketing, but you think their customers can see thru most marketing jargon?
Oh my gosh.

Surly sells an image, just like others. To me, Surly's image is adventure, utility, and an alt-culture.

Your ignorance knows no bounds.

Atlas Shrugged

With this logic, each kitchen should only have one pot, and the remaining is just marketing hype which we all know is ridiculous. I enjoy long-distance solo road rides at least monthly (100 - 150 miles) and have a bike set up ideally for this, I also like gravel and mixed-surface rides which is set up substantially differently, with wider tires, more upright, lower gearing and finally few times a year I like to go on multi-week to month-long self-supported credit card tours ranging from various European locations to South East Asia, this bike is set up in a very particular way to meet those needs. Could one bike do all of this? Yes, but not well, which is the whole point of this discussion.

tomato coupe

I would think that those "experienced and sophisticated" customers could read. But, then again, you seem to be setting a pretty low bar ...