Indexed vs Friction Shifters
#351
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Spend a little more time around here, particularly in threads that reference tubeless tires, cf wheels, and the like. It's pretty obvious.
You've lost the plot: I've never told anyone to change their equipment, nor pretended that my own use-cases are universal; my objections are to uninformed people spreading misinformation about newer tech -- tech that they obviously don't understand and have not tried. (And for what it's worth, I was just out in the garage for the past hour working on my steel-framed 9 speed bike that has rim brakes and -- GASP -- inner tubes!)
Yup.
..yet if you read any length in any of those threads, you see people saying they're just overkill for that person's particular needs and usage. Methinks thou dost protest too much, lady. Case in point:
you feel using old stuff to ride around on is beneath you, and that you would express such sentiment repeatedly in "general cycling". Mostly the saddest part is that you lack the self awareness that allows you to write "Or they egotistically believe their use-cases to be universal.." , and miss that it might describe many of your points of argument on this topic.
you feel using old stuff to ride around on is beneath you, and that you would express such sentiment repeatedly in "general cycling". Mostly the saddest part is that you lack the self awareness that allows you to write "Or they egotistically believe their use-cases to be universal.." , and miss that it might describe many of your points of argument on this topic.
Yup.
#352
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The best part about is no commentation. Just the sights and sounds. In today's world of overproduced sports(overproduced everything), it's a breath of fresh air. No fireworks, lights shows or hype men/women.
Last edited by seypat; 02-05-24 at 02:35 PM.
#353
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That won't prevent the repetition of it ad infinitum.
I would not ride fast in a close group with someone using friction DT. Or if I had to, I'd maintain a large gap between us. But the chances of me riding in a group is pretty limited at this point. Not my thing. That's more of a road thing.
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#355
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You've lost the plot: I've never told anyone to change their equipment, nor pretended that my own use-cases are universal; my objections are to uninformed people spreading misinformation about newer tech -- tech that they obviously don't understand and have not tried. (And for what it's worth, I was just out in the garage for the past hour working on my steel-framed 9 speed bike that has rim brakes and -- GASP -- inner tubes!)
Yet it seems to have been my posting that triggered your rant about C+V bullies, invading the general cycling forum. The timing coincidence seems to be an unavoidable fact. If it was not intended to address me, I was thoroughly fooled. So congratulations.
...see above. I'm over and out, having once again overstayed my welcome.
#356
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I'll say that most any other brand of STI out there is an improvement over the crunchy, long throw of a Shimano brake lever shift.
#357
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...it was new, and it worked precisely and flawlessly. Why would you care about compatibility, when there would be newer and better stuff next year ? Sell it to some retrogrouch and move on.
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#358
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...yes, you ride a lot in groups or on trails. I don't doubt at all it's better and probably safer in those circumstances. I, on the other hand, ride solo most days, and pretty much on asphalt. For me, integrated shifters are just overkill, and I dislike the need to return my hands to the hoods in order to shift. I have brifters on some bicycles, so the idea that I have just never experienced the joy of integrated shifters is mistaken. They work fine, I know how to use them.
That won't prevent the repetition of it ad infinitum.
I would not ride fast in a close group with someone using friction DT. Or if I had to, I'd maintain a large gap between us. But the chances of me riding in a group is pretty limited at this point. Not my thing. That's more of a road thing.
That won't prevent the repetition of it ad infinitum.
I would not ride fast in a close group with someone using friction DT. Or if I had to, I'd maintain a large gap between us. But the chances of me riding in a group is pretty limited at this point. Not my thing. That's more of a road thing.
I used friction on some of my mountain bikes. Always had triples until 2018 when I bought a mountain bike with a 1by. It's an XT 11 speed and it's great.
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According to Click and Clack that's the wrong way to come to a stop. Dropping a gear isn't the same as Downshifting through every one, like it's the proper way to decelerate.
#360
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...??? indexed bar ends are (or at least were for a while) readily available for those who find brifters to be uncomfortable in certain situations. I have some on a couple of bicycles...mostly more touring and utility setups, where I don't plan on standing on the pedals very much. The downside with bar ends is if you hit one with your knee. I guess they might be viewed as niche products in the age of "take my brifters from my cold, dead hands." But I have never experienced them as such.
Just another way to shift the chain without stopping and doing it by hand.
Just another way to shift the chain without stopping and doing it by hand.
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This weekend, I watched video coverage of the CX World Championships that had no commentary. It was pretty nice.
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#362
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Hmmm...I prefer Shimano STI over Campy Ergo. My opinion is only based on the 5yo Campy Record 11s on my Storck, however. Compared to Shimano (I've used 8, 9, 10, and 11s), Campy feels less refined. My only SRAM experience is XX1 1x12 on my MTB, and I like it just fine.
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#363
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...yes, you ride a lot in groups or on trails. I don't doubt at all it's better and probably safer in those circumstances. I, on the other hand, ride solo most days, and pretty much on asphalt. For me, integrated shifters are just overkill, and I dislike the need to return my hands to the hoods in order to shift. I have brifters on some bicycles, so the idea that I have just never experienced the joy of integrated shifters is mistaken. They work fine, I know how to use them.
That won't prevent the repetition of it ad infinitum.
I would not ride fast in a close group with someone using friction DT. Or if I had to, I'd maintain a large gap between us. But the chances of me riding in a group is pretty limited at this point. Not my thing. That's more of a road thing.
That won't prevent the repetition of it ad infinitum.
I would not ride fast in a close group with someone using friction DT. Or if I had to, I'd maintain a large gap between us. But the chances of me riding in a group is pretty limited at this point. Not my thing. That's more of a road thing.
"Forget it. He's rolling."
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#364
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...that is unlikely to happen. But I did ask who those people are. I'm not going looking because I've seen what happens in the last year's epic heavier is better wheel rims thread. I already gave.
...if you can find someplace where I've said anything, other than disc brakes might be overkill for a lot of use cases, as well as tubeless, I'd like to see it. If there are people coming in here from the C+V, picking on you, I apologize for them. But I have seen the unholy likes alliance in full swing here, and it quickly becomes a lesson in group dynamics. I try very hard not to post advice about stuff I haven't personally experienced.
Yet it seems to have been my posting that triggered your rant about C+V bullies, invading the general cycling forum. The timing coincidence seems to be an unavoidable fact. If it was not intended to address me, I was thoroughly fooled. So congratulations.
...see above. I'm over and out, having once again overstayed my welcome.
...if you can find someplace where I've said anything, other than disc brakes might be overkill for a lot of use cases, as well as tubeless, I'd like to see it. If there are people coming in here from the C+V, picking on you, I apologize for them. But I have seen the unholy likes alliance in full swing here, and it quickly becomes a lesson in group dynamics. I try very hard not to post advice about stuff I haven't personally experienced.
Yet it seems to have been my posting that triggered your rant about C+V bullies, invading the general cycling forum. The timing coincidence seems to be an unavoidable fact. If it was not intended to address me, I was thoroughly fooled. So congratulations.
...see above. I'm over and out, having once again overstayed my welcome.
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#365
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#366
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This approach has obvious benefits when using bar-end shifters, but it also provides relatively direct access to the shifters when they're on the downtube. If the bike fits well and you're in the drops, there's not much "reaching" to the shifters, you just sort of let your arm drop inwards and your hand gets where it needs to be.
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On an older road bike with non-aero brake levers, it often makes sense to fit it so that the drops are a primary cruising position. Whereas modern hoods are designed as handrests, those hoods are better thought of as grip nubs, both due to the shape of the hoods and the brake lever geometry (which is similar to the brake levers of flat bars, and not optimized for operation from the "back" of the lever like on modern brifters).
This approach has obvious benefits when using bar-end shifters, but it also provides relatively direct access to the shifters when they're on the downtube. If the bike fits well and you're in the drops, there's not much "reaching" to the shifters, you just sort of let your arm drop inwards and your hand gets where it needs to be.
This approach has obvious benefits when using bar-end shifters, but it also provides relatively direct access to the shifters when they're on the downtube. If the bike fits well and you're in the drops, there's not much "reaching" to the shifters, you just sort of let your arm drop inwards and your hand gets where it needs to be.
If you're riding in the drops on an STI bike, there is no need to move up to the hoods to use any of the controls. Everything is at your fingertips without having to let go of the handlebar at all. That's why I asked 3alarmer's for a clarification on the comment.
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#368
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#369
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To my knowledge, you're not one of the posters providing misinfo about all of these newfangled thingamajigies.
By the way, you mentioned that you asked me to name names...Surely you've been around here long enough (as have I) to know that that is a no-no.
#370
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Electronic drivetrains can substantially alleviate this, due to the light button action and freedom of shifter placement, and optional automatic shift patterns.
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#372
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...my hands wander all over the bar. I move them a lot. And I can do double shifts (F+R) with one hand with DT shifters. This is important to me when I am riding on something set up with half step gearing. But what is important to me is less important to you. I think that was my original point.
...I don't mind quoting you from the recent tire width/pressures thread, just FYI.
So forgive me for thinking that, yes, maybe you do have a tendency to preach about what to ride, and how it should be ridden. You might, at this point, be unaware of how you've dropped into a style of mansplaining stuff to people who might actually know almost as much as you do, about things bicycle. But I can tell you, from personal experience, that it's obvious from your contributions along the way.
I'm happy you have a 9 cogged rear on one of your (steel framed) bicycles. That you consider that, somehow, as a credential for expert commentary on what does, and does not, work well for a variety of user demographics says something. I'm just not sure what it says, exactly.
Here was my own, naive but well meaning, initial post in that thread:
But I'm not going to get sucked into any more of this. I went for a short run in a break between storms here, had a late lunch of hash and eggs, and now plan a leisurely shower. Wish me luck on the water temperature, because I wouldn't want to violate current popular norms on that. I know that back in the olde days, cold showers were popular in the athletic literature.
For starters, that's not what I wrote or suggested, although the lightest steel frames are indeed heavier than even mid-level cf frames.
The poster to whom I was responding doesn't ride one of the lightest steel frames; far from it, in fact.
And it is weird for a person riding a heavy old steel frame to then cite weight as a factor for not riding tires that are both faster and more comfortable.
The poster to whom I was responding doesn't ride one of the lightest steel frames; far from it, in fact.
And it is weird for a person riding a heavy old steel frame to then cite weight as a factor for not riding tires that are both faster and more comfortable.
I'm happy you have a 9 cogged rear on one of your (steel framed) bicycles. That you consider that, somehow, as a credential for expert commentary on what does, and does not, work well for a variety of user demographics says something. I'm just not sure what it says, exactly.
Here was my own, naive but well meaning, initial post in that thread:
.
...most of my dry weather bikes have 700x25's on them currently. Those I mostly inflate to 120-130 psi. I do have some wet weather setups with fenders, and on those I use wider tires, like 28's or 32's. If I rode regularly on rougher surfaces, I would certainly use wider tires, even in dry weather.
...most of my dry weather bikes have 700x25's on them currently. Those I mostly inflate to 120-130 psi. I do have some wet weather setups with fenders, and on those I use wider tires, like 28's or 32's. If I rode regularly on rougher surfaces, I would certainly use wider tires, even in dry weather.
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#373
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...I don't mind quoting you from the recent tire width/pressures thread, just FYI.
So forgive me for thinking that, yes, maybe you do have a tendency to preach about what to ride, and how it should be ridden. You might, at this point, be unaware of how you've dropped into a style of mansplaining stuff to people who might actually know almost as much as you do, about things bicycle. But I can tell you, from personal experience, that it's obvious from your contributions along the way.
But I'm not going to get sucked into any more of this. I went for a short run in a break between storms here, had a late lunch of hash and eggs, and now plan a leisurely shower. Wish me luck on the water temperature, because I wouldn't want to violate current popular norms on that. I know that back in the olde days, cold showers were popular in the athletic literature.
So forgive me for thinking that, yes, maybe you do have a tendency to preach about what to ride, and how it should be ridden. You might, at this point, be unaware of how you've dropped into a style of mansplaining stuff to people who might actually know almost as much as you do, about things bicycle. But I can tell you, from personal experience, that it's obvious from your contributions along the way.
But I'm not going to get sucked into any more of this. I went for a short run in a break between storms here, had a late lunch of hash and eggs, and now plan a leisurely shower. Wish me luck on the water temperature, because I wouldn't want to violate current popular norms on that. I know that back in the olde days, cold showers were popular in the athletic literature.
Hope you enjoy the shower. It'll give you a chance to be all wet, and not just figuratively.
#374
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Shifting through the down tube may sound simple, but one can't help but imagine contorted hand gymnastics reminiscent of a bicycle-based Rubik's Cube. The elegance of simplicity might be debatable in this case.
#375
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With DT shifters at least I don’t need to worry about cable fraying. And they’re lighter.