Considering a used Trek?
12-17-09, 05:05 PM
#376
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A gift. Or maybe they'd had numerous issues and there was an informal in-house warranty going on. It's not really relevant in any meaningful way. Did you reward Look with a praise thread? No. Do you still ride a Look? Doesn't look like it. So they gained nothing by the gesture.....
And yes there is relevance. WR bought a bike second hand. Cypress bought a bike second hand. WR had a failure. Cypress had a failure. WR asked if Trek would warranty the frame because the failure was a factory defect. Cypress (through me and with full disclosure that I was no longer the owner) asked LOOK if they would warranty the frame.
Trek told WR to go pound sand and didn't even offer to look at the frame.
LOOK said, let us take a look at the frame and determine if it was crash damage or a factory defect. After which they decided it was a factory defect and replaced the frame.
Yes LOOK showed that they would stand behind their product if they were at fault.
Trek is not interested.
I would buy a LOOK
I would not buy a Trek.
Last edited by lotek; 12-18-09 at 07:55 AM.
12-17-09, 05:31 PM
#377
Senior Member
I am just guessing on the price of Trek's framesets.
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Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
12-17-09, 05:37 PM
#378
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Thanks for proving how little you know...I've owned two LOOK's since then (a total of 5 over the last 6 years), the last a 595 has been voted one of the best bikes on this forum several times. I love LOOK's and would and probably will buy another. I did post a thread about what happened and Cypress has commented on how well it was handled and how much he loved his LOOK ( he no longer rides road he went over the MTB side). I've also mentioned how well LOOK handled the situation in other threads.
And yes there is relevance. WR bought a bike second hand. Cypress bought a bike second hand. WR had a failure. Cypress had a failure. WR asked if Trek would warranty the frame because the failure was a factory defect. Cypress (through me and with full disclosure that I was no longer the owner) asked LOOK if they would warranty the frame.
Trek told WR to go pound sand and didn't even offer to look at the frame.
LOOK said, let us take a look at the frame and determine if it was crash damage or a factory defect. After which they decided it was a factory defect and replaced the frame.
Yes LOOK showed that they would stand behind their product if they were at fault.
Trek is not interested.
I would buy a LOOK
I would not buy a Trek.
And yes there is relevance. WR bought a bike second hand. Cypress bought a bike second hand. WR had a failure. Cypress had a failure. WR asked if Trek would warranty the frame because the failure was a factory defect. Cypress (through me and with full disclosure that I was no longer the owner) asked LOOK if they would warranty the frame.
Trek told WR to go pound sand and didn't even offer to look at the frame.
LOOK said, let us take a look at the frame and determine if it was crash damage or a factory defect. After which they decided it was a factory defect and replaced the frame.
Yes LOOK showed that they would stand behind their product if they were at fault.
Trek is not interested.
I would buy a LOOK
I would not buy a Trek.
Based on his stated buying tendencies WR is probably not somebody that the LBS is going to really go to bat for because likely it isn't ever going to result in a new bike sale.
I know Trek has warranted second owner frames based on the dealer and how they go to bat for a customer. Another customer in another state with the same issues may have had different results.
It's not a common failure, someone probably had a case of the "Mondays" when the frame was built. Trek has nothing to gain from taking this one apart given that they've moved on to a different BB construction method.
Was this thing sold retail originally? Or was this a race bike supplied by a shop to the previous owner?
12-17-09, 05:50 PM
#379
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Trek's Austin rep told him to pound sand, unless I missed him going up the chain further.
Based on his stated buying tendencies WR is probably not somebody that the LBS is going to really go to bat for because likely it isn't ever going to result in a new bike sale.
I know Trek has warranted second owner frames based on the dealer and how they go to bat for a customer. Another customer in another state with the same issues may have had different results.
It's not a common failure, someone probably had a case of the "Mondays" when the frame was built. Trek has nothing to gain from taking this one apart given that they've moved on to a different BB construction method.
Was this thing sold retail originally? Or was this a race bike supplied by a shop to the previous owner?
Based on his stated buying tendencies WR is probably not somebody that the LBS is going to really go to bat for because likely it isn't ever going to result in a new bike sale.
I know Trek has warranted second owner frames based on the dealer and how they go to bat for a customer. Another customer in another state with the same issues may have had different results.
It's not a common failure, someone probably had a case of the "Mondays" when the frame was built. Trek has nothing to gain from taking this one apart given that they've moved on to a different BB construction method.
Was this thing sold retail originally? Or was this a race bike supplied by a shop to the previous owner?
I never had to go past the regional LOOK rep. I didn't even buy the frame from the one LOOK dealer in town. Trek has several shops in Austin that carry them and a massive presence in Austin.
I've said this before but it appears it bears repeating. I don't have a big problem with Trek not replacing the frame, it's the fact that they didn't even offer to take a look at it to determine if it was their fault. If LOOK had refused to warranty the frame I sold Cypress I would have bough it back from him (He noticed the cracks a few days after getting the frame from me)
Last edited by El Diablo Rojo; 12-17-09 at 05:58 PM.
12-17-09, 06:28 PM
#380
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Na nah ne boo hoo to you too.
This one? A company like Look gives you a new frame worth thousands and you don't even mention their name in the title? They got gyped!
The only relevance is that you and Cypress rolled the dice and won. WR rolled the dice and lost. Neither of you had warranties. Neither of you were entitled to anything. You were lucky, WR wasn't.
Do you still wonder why? Let's look at WR's first post, shall we?
There's this:
They built it poorly and won't stand behind it, just because they were lucky enough to have the bike change hands once before it broke.
A defect!
He knew buying a used carbon bike with no warranty was risky, but made a flawed assumption:
Certainly they'll just ignore the fact I didn't buy it new, right?
So it goes:
I went through the shop warranty channel. Denied.
I went through the web warranty channel. Crickets.
I called and spoke with their support staff, and got transferred to our district rep. I told him about how I've put Trek on the podium a bunch of times and want to continue. I told him how I have a team buy coming up where I can inexpensively start putting another brand up on the podium.
WR has proven he isn't committed to Trek in any way! He's riding a Trek because a buddy made him a convenient deal on one and now he's quite willing to "inexpensively" put another brand on the podium. Key word: inexpensively.
I'm sure at this point the deal was done. Trek is thinking "why bother?" And so....
"No warranty. Sorry, you're not the original owner."
No manufacturer says "we build perfect things". So they offer things to their customers called warranties. Warranties protect against defects, and there's absolutely no reason retail buyers should have to subsidize other people's cheapness, defect or no.
Trek offered WR a bone-he could have had a brand new, upgraded frame with a warranty, but ever frugal, he declined.
This one? A company like Look gives you a new frame worth thousands and you don't even mention their name in the title? They got gyped!
And yes there is relevance. WR bought a bike second hand. Cypress bought a bike second hand. WR had a failure. Cypress had a failure. WR asked if Trek would warranty the frame because the failure was a factory defect. Cypress (through me and with full disclosure that I was no longer the owner) asked LOOK if they would warranty the frame.
There's this:
They built it poorly and won't stand behind it, just because they were lucky enough to have the bike change hands once before it broke.
A defect!
He knew buying a used carbon bike with no warranty was risky, but made a flawed assumption:Certainly they'll just ignore the fact I didn't buy it new, right?
So it goes:
I went through the shop warranty channel. Denied.
I went through the web warranty channel. Crickets.
I called and spoke with their support staff, and got transferred to our district rep. I told him about how I've put Trek on the podium a bunch of times and want to continue. I told him how I have a team buy coming up where I can inexpensively start putting another brand up on the podium.
WR has proven he isn't committed to Trek in any way! He's riding a Trek because a buddy made him a convenient deal on one and now he's quite willing to "inexpensively" put another brand on the podium. Key word: inexpensively.
I'm sure at this point the deal was done. Trek is thinking "why bother?" And so....
"No warranty. Sorry, you're not the original owner."
No manufacturer says "we build perfect things". So they offer things to their customers called warranties. Warranties protect against defects, and there's absolutely no reason retail buyers should have to subsidize other people's cheapness, defect or no.
Trek offered WR a bone-he could have had a brand new, upgraded frame with a warranty, but ever frugal, he declined.
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Last edited by One Way Rider; 12-17-09 at 06:38 PM.
12-17-09, 06:30 PM
#381
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Actually WR is pertty tight with the shop, Austin is a pretty small town in many ways and most of the racers know each other.
I never had to go past the regional LOOK rep. I didn't even buy the frame from the one LOOK dealer in town. Trek has several shops in Austin that carry them and a massive presence in Austin.
I've said this before but it appears it bears repeating. I don't have a big problem with Trek not replacing the frame, it's the fact that they didn't even offer to take a look at it to determine if it was their fault. If LOOK had refused to warranty the frame I sold Cypress I would have bough it back from him (He noticed the cracks a few days after getting the frame from me)
I never had to go past the regional LOOK rep. I didn't even buy the frame from the one LOOK dealer in town. Trek has several shops in Austin that carry them and a massive presence in Austin.
I've said this before but it appears it bears repeating. I don't have a big problem with Trek not replacing the frame, it's the fact that they didn't even offer to take a look at it to determine if it was their fault. If LOOK had refused to warranty the frame I sold Cypress I would have bough it back from him (He noticed the cracks a few days after getting the frame from me)
He should be riding a more robust product like steel anyway, given his wattage ouput.:2cents:
12-17-09, 06:40 PM
#382
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El Diablo Rojo:
I just noticed your post about how Cypress had noticed the cracks literally within hours after the transaction. The frame was clearly broken while still in your, that is to say, the original owner's possession. So of course, Look warranteed it. WR rode the snot out of his for a year. Then it broke. I think that's completely different.
I just noticed your post about how Cypress had noticed the cracks literally within hours after the transaction. The frame was clearly broken while still in your, that is to say, the original owner's possession. So of course, Look warranteed it. WR rode the snot out of his for a year. Then it broke. I think that's completely different.
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12-17-09, 06:55 PM
#383
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I think this is much simpler than everyone's making it out to be.
Not offering CRASH replacement to a not original owner is fine.
But what was the cause of the frame failure? It was a manufacturers defect. The frame was not man handled, it was not abused, it was just ridden.
It failed in a mechanism that simply shows that the frame was not built properly.
This is simply a case of trek not standing behind their product and saying 'lets screw him because we can'.
Simple as that.
Not offering CRASH replacement to a not original owner is fine.
But what was the cause of the frame failure? It was a manufacturers defect. The frame was not man handled, it was not abused, it was just ridden.
It failed in a mechanism that simply shows that the frame was not built properly.
This is simply a case of trek not standing behind their product and saying 'lets screw him because we can'.
Simple as that.
12-17-09, 06:56 PM
#384
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El Diablo Rojo:
I just noticed your post about how Cypress had noticed the cracks literally within hours after the transaction. The frame was clearly broken while still in your, that is to say, the original owner's possession. So of course, Look warranteed it. WR rode the snot out of his for a year. Then it broke. I think that's completely different.
I just noticed your post about how Cypress had noticed the cracks literally within hours after the transaction. The frame was clearly broken while still in your, that is to say, the original owner's possession. So of course, Look warranteed it. WR rode the snot out of his for a year. Then it broke. I think that's completely different.
Also, how do you know that the issue didn't start before WR bought the bike and propogated till he noticed it? There could have been internal cracks in the epoxy that were just not visible to the eye because they were inside.
12-17-09, 06:58 PM
#385
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12-17-09, 06:59 PM
#386
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Do put it up on Ebay for S's & G's. I'm wagering there is someone, perhaps several, who would want that sized frame in that color, who has the skills and tools required to attempt a repair. The words you've used to describe the situation here, plus the illustrative pics, would be enough to let potential suckers, I mean bidders, know exactly what they're in for.
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12-17-09, 07:01 PM
#387
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Fixed.What is it with guys!? You always want stuff you aren't entitled to!
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Working on your own stuff is either a labor of love, or a love of labor...
Working on your own stuff is either a labor of love, or a love of labor...
Last edited by One Way Rider; 12-17-09 at 07:08 PM.
12-17-09, 07:17 PM
#388
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Shipping damage produces different damage from internal problems.
You trying to say the frame was soooo strong that it took a year of pounding in a compromised state by a guy who puts out 800+ watts to break it? 
That's one tough frame!
The obvious question that is impossible to answer is what if Cypress had raced on the Look frame for a year before it broke?
That's one tough frame! The obvious question that is impossible to answer is what if Cypress had raced on the Look frame for a year before it broke?
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Working on your own stuff is either a labor of love, or a love of labor...
Working on your own stuff is either a labor of love, or a love of labor...
12-17-09, 07:25 PM
#389
Has coddling tendencies.
12-17-09, 07:31 PM
#390
Senior Member
exactly. Regardless if WR was riding it or the original owner, this would have happened eventually which is absolutely unacceptable. Just because it is carbon and a "race bike" doesn't mean it shouldn't last for 5+ years AT LEAST. Sure many people replace race bikes every 1-2 years, but there are many people who intend to keep them for >5 years.
12-17-09, 07:42 PM
#391
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But, what if eBay were to sell only new items with warranty, then there would be no problem. So there, back at you genius.
12-17-09, 07:47 PM
#392
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El Diablo Rojo:
I just noticed your post about how Cypress had noticed the cracks literally within hours after the transaction. The frame was clearly broken while still in your, that is to say, the original owner's possession. So of course, Look warranteed it. WR rode the snot out of his for a year. Then it broke. I think that's completely different.
I just noticed your post about how Cypress had noticed the cracks literally within hours after the transaction. The frame was clearly broken while still in your, that is to say, the original owner's possession. So of course, Look warranteed it. WR rode the snot out of his for a year. Then it broke. I think that's completely different.
Yes the thread you posted was one of the threads in which I mentioned how good the customer service was from LOOK. But more importantly look at how many pages that thread was..1 with a meager 19 responses. It was a positive thread talking about the great customer service I received from several bike companies. Now lets look at how many pages and posts this thread is getting...bad news travels much faster and further than good news.
Last edited by El Diablo Rojo; 12-17-09 at 07:54 PM.
12-17-09, 08:03 PM
#393
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WR took a risk by purchasing a used frame and things unfortunately did not work out very well. Manufacturer's defect or not, the warranty is what it is. The fact that some companies bend their warranty rules doesn't mean that Trek has to. After all, there could be more to the story than what is said here. Trek could also care less how a thread about his problems reached 16 (or whatever it ends up being) pages on BF; they sell a lot of bikes and a vast majority of their buyers don't even know what BF is.
Do not buy anything without a warranty if you can't afford to replace it.
Time to move on.
Do not buy anything without a warranty if you can't afford to replace it.
Time to move on.
Last edited by fa63; 12-17-09 at 08:06 PM.
12-17-09, 08:16 PM
#394
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
Who's getting the coveted post #400?
12-17-09, 08:17 PM
#395
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
Hmm?
12-17-09, 08:18 PM
#396
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
Quick, post now!
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12-17-09, 08:37 PM
#398
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WR took a risk by purchasing a used frame and things unfortunately did not work out very well. Manufacturer's defect or not, the warranty is what it is. The fact that some companies bend their warranty rules doesn't mean that Trek has to. After all, there could be more to the story than what is said here. Trek could also care less how a thread about his problems reached 16 (or whatever it ends up being) pages on BF; they sell a lot of bikes and a vast majority of their buyers don't even know what BF is.
Do not buy anything without a warranty if you can't afford to replace it.
Time to move on.
Do not buy anything without a warranty if you can't afford to replace it.
Time to move on.
12-17-09, 09:13 PM
#399
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
12-17-09, 09:14 PM
#400
slow up hills
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are we merging the grammar thread with this one now?
edit: I had #300. How many internets do I win?
edit: I had #300. How many internets do I win?