mibike

We have 3 tandems and a triplet. 1 of the tandems and the triplet have discs and the other 2 have rim brakes. With the discs it's a little easier to get the wheel on and off. The discs are also better in the rain.

If I was looking at a tandem and discs were an option I would go with them. If discs weren't an option it wouldn't stop me from buying it.

oldacura

mibike - thanks for the perspective. We're sissies. If it is raining, we don't ride. Around here that almost never keeps us from riding. So far from my experience and the opinions expressed here, we're likely to choose caliper rim brakes.

B1KE

What do you mean by air in lines exactly? And how would I bleed them?

P.S. I'm a noob to biking so your help is appreciated!

Team Fab

Sometimes even brand new brakes will have small air bubbles that will compress under pressure(unlike brake fluid). This will result in a lack of brake power and a mushy feel to the brakes. Also note if the lines have been kinked it will result in a soft spot in the line and give the same result. And before the experts attack me yes I know that brake fluid does compress slightly.

I have had small amounts of air in both brand new Sram and Shimano mt. brakes. I am very picky and bleed all new brake lines and always get a bit of air out.

As a noob I would recommend going to a good bike shop to get them bled and see if that is the issue.

B1KE

Thanks for your insight, sorry if it's another noob question but this is a method to use for disc brake lines? Because I'm running non hydroaulic disc brakes.

Team Fab

woops.

Well then. Your cable housing could be soft(alternatively cheap cable that stretches) or the brake caliper is not designed for road lever.

2592

Another option:
Klamper Disc Caliper

B1KE

I recently upgraded to the TRP Spyre from Avid BB5s and I was expecting a huge upgrade but I'm VERY disappointed.

First the pros;
-Great looks
- Lightweight
- Great customer service. TRP sent me compressionless cable housing and free brake pads

That's where it ends though

Cons
-Weak and mushy lever feel. They don't deliver power in a linear fashion similar to how the Avid BB5s would. You really have to slam the lever to get good stopping power. It does not feel safe under high speed conditions and it's alot more difficult to come to a slow and gradual hault by lightly feathering on the brakes like you would with the avids.

It could be the resin pads but I doubt it as it is more of a design issue, it's great that both sides of the pad actuate but I believe this is at the cost of linear stopping power and some power is sacrificed overall. For the record what's the point of dual actuation if it reduces power? Perhaps the pads last longer but I'd rather have something safer and with good stopping power.

For the record I'm running a Tiagra group set road set up and have had everything including the compressionless housing set up by my LBS.

- Tool required to adjust instead of the knob on the Avids. I don't get how this is convenient, instead of using a knob to fine tune my adustment points I have to carry and pull out a tool to adjust my brakes?

- Really bad in wet conditions, Isn't the purpose of disc brakes to be good in all weather conditions, I rode my Avids through the rain a couple of times and the stopping power was great, not so with the TRPs. It even says this on their website "Compoound works well in dry conditions but may wear quickly in wet/muddy conditions."

WTF TRP thanks for making a light and awesome looking break and having great customer service but the actual performance of your brake is not good and when buying brakes stopping power and modulation should be at the top of your list and not marketing terminology and flashy design


I really want to like these and I'm thinking of swapping pads but it's been such a waste of money already that I'm thinking of switching back to my Avids and putting the TRP Spyres on ebay.

If anyone want a set of TRP spyre brakes let me know.

twocicle

Based on your wet braking feedback I'd say the issue is with your pads and perhaps a non-clean rotor at the time you installed the TRP. Once pads are contaminated they are useless and it doesn't matter what brand. Try a new set of pads and perhaps consider a sintered version instead of resin... of course, after cleaning your rotor with isopropyl alcohol (use high strength 99.9%), Shimano pads are compatible so you have more options there.

While hex keys are needed to adjust the pistons, a wee bonus is no plastic knobs to melt.

DKMcK 

I have a BB7 I'll trade.

Chris_W

Also, the cable pull ratio of the Tiagra levers that B1KE is using is not the same as it is for all of the Shimanos levers that have the gear cables running under the bar tape (105 and above). The TRP Spyre brakes are more likely to have been designed for the higher-end Shimano levers, and so you shouldn't dismiss them as not functioning correctly until you've tried them with some levers that they were designed for.

B1KE

Actually I should be talking about how bad they are because when you look at the product description, nowhere does it mention that it should be used with and designed for higher end components.

If it really is the case that TRP spyres only function best with higher end components then spyres should put that in the description. Instead they tell you it works best with compressionless housing so you spend even more money with them and don't get a increase in performance.

EastCoastDHer

Thanks for sharing. Apparently we're famous now. Lol I've a few sets of these kits myself. I've installed quite a few of our parts on my bikes with no issues. We (imperial bike)run many of the parts on our site on our own bikes. Jesse (the owner) and I grew up racing and riding together here in Connecticut. He's quite a talented rider and a great resource as well as one of the best people I've known.
I'm coincidently also running hope discs (4 pistons), also with great results. I'll admit the weight is a tad more but the power these brakes deliver is worth it. I also am a fan of the adjustable reach and the amount of "feel" you get - none of the "brick" or "on/off" feel many companies produce.
We also offer ti, anodized rotor bolts if you're looking to further lighten your ride. I currently have the gold rotor bolts on my DH bike and also on my road bike to replace the stock water cage bolts.

gracehowler

[QUOTE=B1KE;18067427
- Really bad in wet conditions, Isn't the purpose of disc brakes to be good in all weather conditions, I rode my Avids through the rain a couple of times and the stopping power was great, not so with the TRPs. It even says this on their website "Compoound works well in dry conditions but may wear quickly in wet/muddy conditions."

[/QUOTE]
Not to change the subject, but my experience is that resin (organic) pads are not the best choice for wet conditions. I choose them only for their quiet
R

B1KE

I'm aware of that. Yet disc brakes are known as the best choice for all weather conditions so like I mentioned before, it's strange that Spyre uses a pad that's not suitable for all weather conditions. Therefore rendering the advantage of disc brakes useless vs rim brakes. I wish I bought a bike with rim brakes, wouldn't be having these stupid problems.

cale

Didn't you post that TRP gave you the housing? Where's the injury?

Possum Roadkill

Here's a little trick I've discovered with getting a little better braking performance with the TRP brakes which might work as well for other models as well. The old trick for Avids was to add a spring to the outside of the brake, pushing against the brake arm, so I thought I would try this with the Avid. With the Avid, there was way too much spring tension when I did this though. I was a bit frustrated and tired when I discovered it wasn't going to work, so I just left the bike sitting for about a week with the spring on before removing it since I wasn't planning on riding the bike until then. When I removed the spring though, the brake now worked better and with less "compression" than before I had put the spring on. Now when I change cables, I let the bike sit for about a week if possible with tension constantly on the cable. You can accomplish this with an old style toe strap or strong rubber bands activating the brake lever or by winding the pad adjustments in and barrel adjuster out until there is a reasonable amount of tension on the cable. If you use the second method, you want to be very careful to not attempt to ride the bike like this. You should notice the drag on the wheel right away, but brakes do not work at all when adjusted in all the way like this. The toe strap method is probably the easiest and safest option.

twocicle

Hey, who ya calling old?! lol For my original post, see: Precision Tandems - Santana Team AL with Avid Disc Brake, brake, brakes, disc brakes, avid, avid ball bearing, ball bearing, cable, cable acutated, 203, 203 mm, 203mm, 160, 160mm, 160 mm

I like your notion to perform a compression break-in/preload cycle. Makes sense.

Since we have converted to hydraulics, my parts bin has a like new BB7 and like new TRP Spyre both with original boxes, spare pads, etc, waiting to post on eBay.

Possum Roadkill

"Old" in bike tech is about 2 years, in computers, it's about a week.
I'm still a little cautious about the idea of running hydraulics. I've heard about issues with brake fluid heating on long descents and causing a critical failure on tandems. Most hydraulic disc brakes are not even designed with road riding in mind. The majority were made for off road use. We are just starting to see more disc brakes that were really designed for road use now. Some of the newer Shimano brakes have cooling fins and the discs are multi-layers of metal that are supposed to improve cooling as well. It's not unusual to encounter 10 mile descents on some of the routes I ride. On a recent supported tour I just finished the longest descents were about 20 miles. One downhill took at least 30 minutes to complete.

If you usually do rides that have nowhere near this much descending then I don't think the hydraulic brakes would be a problem, but I'm waiting for hydraulics to be out there in use on tandems longer before even consider switching. After my break-in trick, the Spyre mechanical works too well to want much more, other than I wish I could use the Shimano pads with the cooling fins.

oldacura

We find that long descents are not an issue for overheating brakes. One ride we have done often drops from 9450' to 5600' in 16.5 miles. This works out to an average grade of 4.4%. Most of the curves are large radius and the brakes are used sparingly. Another local descent drops from 7700' to 5400' in 6.1 miles. This works out to an average grade of 7.1%. Because this second descent has tight switchbacks with steep grades, it taxes the brakes significantly more. There are sections of this ride where on a hot day I have been concerned about overheating rim brakes.

Possum Roadkill

Did I just mention the Shimano brake as an example of how things might be looking up for us tandem riders wanting to run hydraulic brake systems??
Shimano R785 road hydraulic disc caliper failure - BikeRadar USA

Just don't want to be the beta tester on this stuff especially on a tandem.

twocicle

I think you are mixing old reports with current tech. What you may have heard was all the issues with Formula hydraulics as implemented by Santana. Those had DOT fluid and a brake cable-to-master cylinder fastened to the downtube. That master cylinder did have some problems with vapor lock, likely what you heard of.

The new Shimano r785 uses mineral oil which has a higher boil point and less prone to absorbing water. This version is on our tandem and a few others on this forum.

Possum Roadkill

What I heard years ago was the the Formula was the only brake where the manufacturer did not recommend against installing on a tandem. They were awful to adjust and always felt much worse than any of the cabled brakes I've used. Read up on the brake failure that I linked to. It's a different model, but it also occurred on a single. You feel any sponginess in braking on a descent, you should be prepared to pull the bike over and stop.

twocicle

So the Shimano issue in question from Ben Delaney seems to be a one-off occurrence, but good to be aware of, especially as Shimano has not identified the root cause of the ceramic piston failure. Thanks for posting.

Possum Roadkill

Shimano claims that they haven't seen any additional failures in the road version, the article seems to indicate some similar mountain brakes have had issues. The TRP I am now running had recalls which did make me a little nervous until I had a discussion with someone at Co-Motion that assured me all their bike had the newer version.

Some tandem parts do not appear to have been designed with tandem use in mind. They are simply the only options available. Riding any bicycle has its risks. You could have a tire blow out while cornering. We all have to accept some degree of risk if we wish to continue to ride, however hydraulics still feel like an unnecessary risk to me.

The fastest I have gone on any bike is 56MPH. I no longer do this. Occasionally I notice I have reached 50MPH but it's usually on really straight roads that I am very familiar with. This seems to happen less and less over time.

I recently did a long descent on a tour that it would have been easy to get the bike going much faster. When I finished, other riders wanted to see how fast the tandem had gone down the hill, but our maximum speed was about the same as the fastest single bikes.

I have hydraulic discs on my mountain bike and my understanding and also what I feel is significantly different is that the hydraulic brakes have better modulation. This enables me to have better control over whether the rear tire is skidding or not on a really steep descent (We're talking stair case steep). This is not a situation I expect to occur on the road. Hydraulic brakes tend to give you a little more braking with a little less effort, but I find this to be less true with the TRP Spyre. I think this must be due to the two arm design and the fact that both pads move.