Surferbruce

why do pics like that on bf always make frames look so small?

KiddSisko

BF sponsor Competitive Cyclist has a convenient fit calculator that may provide some firm guidelines and isolate any fit issues.

Also, that's one massive radiator you have there. I've never seen one so large. The plumber in me is intrigued.

Beaker

One comment I've had from various sources - you should optimize the position of your saddle versus the pedals first. Get your peddling position sorted (avoid any unintended knee problems) and then adjust your bars with stem, spacers etc. If you move your saddle too much to change the reach, you may run into different unintended problems with your knees/lower back.

+1 for the professional fit; good luck!

Cdy291

Also if you move your saddle to far back you can run into stability problems on your bike and may not know why. Thought I would through that in there since I had to learn the hard way.

malpag3

Haha, thanks sisko. Yes we have a few of them here, but it is Detroit, and the winters are brutal. Our landlord is a plumber actually. I could set up a plumber date perhaps? You guys could snake stuff! It would be gross and sweet.

Ok, I am going to fine tune the saddle and crank first and then work my way forward. I am also going to call around for LBS pro fitters. Sub $100 is a good range, correct? I'll see what I can muster.

I just want to say thinks for the great feedback on this! You all are great!

KiddSisko

Hey, I'm not that into it. Not that there's anything wrong with you being fascinated by that sort of thing.

celerystalksme

i'm 5'5" with a 28.5" inseam...it's definitely hard finding the ride bike if you're a smaller male...

i'm not sure about that toptube length approximation. i tried that with my roadbike that was professionally fitted...and feels GREAT! my finger tip comes up about 6cm short of the handlebar...

celerystalksme

...

celerystalksme

you in d-town? hey fellow michgander! i'm in ann arbor!

i think your fit looks pretty good actually. it looks like maybe the cockpit was a bit short...but i think you've already made a couple adjustments to lengthen it out...

adjust saddle height...though, saddle height looks to be in the right range to me. then do a search on KOPS to figure out where your saddle should be in relation to your pedals. then figure out our stem.

i'm not sold on the crank length thing...but i may start experimenting because my newest bike has longer cranks than my other two...

good luck!

malpag3

Sisko- You know you secretly love it! Nah, just kidding. Yes the massive radiators here are a thing of wonder.

Celerey- Thanks for the advice. Do you have preferred LBS by chance? I think I'll play with a bit more at work today and see what I can muster.

Thanks again guys!

chtexas

you could try getting that mold off the back of your neck!

OCRider2000

Not a big fan of KOPS but its not a bad place to start from. Read up on KOPS and how to determine. You will need string, a weight and someone to hold the string on the boney protrusion just below your knee cap. Next up seat height. Even though you have been riding over a year you might be too low, too high or maybe its just right. .883 x inseam is a good starting point (measured from top of saddle to center of bottom bracket. From there its a matter of finding your sweet spot where you are making maximum power with maximum efficiency (bring a tool a long and experiment during your rides. Keep in mind moving your seat up effectly moves it backward. Once you have seat height dialed in the next thing to work on is your reach (as in reach from the saddle to your bars). At present you look too short. If that stem is a 100 I would probably swap it out for a 110 or maybe a 120. You want to be able to achieve a nice flat back without feeling that your reach is too long.The thing to remember is that after you make these changes your comfort level might go down initially as you body needs to adjust. I might just go straight to the 120 and ride it for a while and see if that is in fact too long for you. You will need to experiment in order to find your perfect reach. To me KOPS is just a starting point. You also want good fore\aft balance. Some people find they make better power rear of KOPS. Remember when you move your seat back it lengthens your reach. The last thing that will impact your fit is the saddle to bar height differential. Most of us have a limit beyond which we are not comfortable. Typically if you are on a frame that is on the small side (for your body) you will be facing some saddle to bar height differential challenges. I don't see a ton of spacers but your steerer is cut so I don't see you going much higher (of course with the longer stem that will bring the bars up higher. Read up on fit. Rember if your bars are raised that effectly shortens your reach. Check out photos of pro riders (they are often on the extreme side when it comes to saddle to bar drop but you can see what a nice flat back looks like. I've had a number of fits done in the past and after learning about good fit I now realize that not all of them really knew what they were doing. You are the only one who can find your sweet spot for stuff like saddle height, fore\aft postion of your seat, reach and saddle to bar height differential.

celerystalksme

well, i don't know about too many bike shops outside of ann arbor...but i've heard good things about 'cycle to fitness' in livonia...prestige cycles in troy...i cant remember the names or locations of the others...

in ann arbor, i LOVE 'two wheel tango' and 'ride boutique'....great fitting!

they are expensive though...two wheel tango has levels of fitting...the most basic roadbike fit i believe costs $100...and the most comprehensive computer and video assisted fit costs lik $225. got the $225...very exhaustive but very confidence inspiring. the cool thing is that after they fit you, you can come back in within 6 months for minor fit adjustments...i think that's available with every level of fit.

good luck!

DrPete 

1. Bend your elbows.

2. A choice: do some core strengthening/flexibility work/yoga/etc or raise your bars higher. Depends on what kind of riding you want to do and how motivated you are.

malpag3

Mold on the...what? Confused...

Anyway, thanks for the tips OCRider. Seems like good advice. I always try to look at pro riders during the tour, but they move to fast to get a good look at. I will indeed opt for the 110 or 120 depending on whats available. Not sure about raising my saddle height at all. I feel like I have dialed that in for max effeciency to power ration for me. Does this change though if my other positions change?

Thanks celerey. Sound like good places, but out of my price range at this point, but it is always an option that is out there which is good to know.

Pete, I'll work on bending my elbows as well. I'd like to think I have a good handle on core strength because I have been rock climbing consistantly for the past 5 years. I do notice when my core strength diminishes after some time off the rock.

Thanks again all. I'm very grateful!

malpag3

Ok, an update...

What do you all think? I went with a 120 stem, and changed my saddle a tad.

I originally had the stem flipped so it was -6. After 30 miles yesterday that didn't feel so hot and I wasn't able to comfortably bend my arms. I also experienced numbness in my nether regions, but that was quasi-alleviated when I tipped my saddle nose down a bit.

That said my bending elbows are really forced.

Thoughts?

alanbikehouston

Keep your saddle dead level, especially the back half. If the nose is down, you will slide forward off your "sit bones" putting weight on your crotch and your hands. Keep your elbows relaxed and slightly flexed, it will feel natural after a week or two.

Stick with ONE saddle position for a few days to let your body get used to it. If you change every day, the new position will always feel a bit awkward.

The photo on the left is helpful, because it shows the knee angle with the pedal at six o'clock. There SHOULD be a visible bend in the knee in that position, but your bend might be a tad more than necessary...try raising the saddle half an inch after riding a few days at the current height...it takes a week or so to really assess how a given saddle height feels.

Beaker

To my completely amateur eye, it seems as though you might want to bend more at your hips/waist? You seem to want to ride more upright, and that might be something that you'll need to spend some time getting used to. Can you get more aero in the drops and try holding them right in the middle of the bend, and placing your forearms more in line with the tails of the drops? That forces you to bend both your elbows and your waist. If that's excrutiating, then perhaps you need to revisit bar height?

At the end of the day, you should go with what "feels right" when you're riding. My $0.02

Ralleh

Saddle looks kinda low.

AnthonyG

They're good pictures now and it confirms my opinion that your cranks are too long. Notice how high your knee is rising at the top of the stroke and compare it to other riders. Here's a page with a few images to compare,

https://reviews.roadbikereview.com/tour-of-california/

Not ideal but notice their leg angles close to the top of the stroke and in the middle position too. The fact that your legs are rising so high does make it more uncomfortable, more difficult to spin high cadences although not impossible and much harder to adopt an aerodynamic position because when you get into a tuck your knee's are always rising into your chest.

Also you appear to be in front of KOPS (knee over pedal spindle) but this just goes hand in hand with steep seat tube angles and long cranks on small frames these day's.

My view is that its the crank issue thats at the core of your problems and playing around with the stem isn't going to provide a lot of benefit until you sort out the cranks and seat position.

Regards, Anthony

malpag3

Ok, thanks again all.

My cranks are 167.5 (I think, that's what's stamped on them). This is no good. I shudder at the idea of having to lay down the moolah for the ultegra cranks to replace these.

Mrg... <=(

AnthonyG

Well actually you can only buy similar cranks down to 165mm and in this case I wouldn't recommend that you bother with that because 2.5mm isn't going to make enough difference to justify the expense. For the record I'm using 135mm cranks which I had shortened by an engineer. It was a HUGE benefit doing this.

Whats your cycling inseam (actual inseam measured standing barefoot to the hard pelvic bone, not your pant inseam)? I'm an advocate for using proportional cranks that are in the order of 20-21% of your inseam. This isn't a hard and fast rule but it would be worthwhile measuring your inseam and figuring out what % of your inseam your cranks are currently and what length you would need to be in the 20-21% range.

Now I don't want to suggest that you can't keep on riding with your current setup but as you are noticing its not the most comfortable and its not pleasant to ride long distances. To achieve your best potential on a bike it is going to involve some research, effort and money. Thats the joy of not being of average size.

Regards, Anthony

malpag3

My cycling inseam (from bare feet to hard crotch area) is about 27-27.5inches (which means that my 47cm bike is adequate height wise).

I'm not sure how to get the percentage of that as my cranks. What is the formula for this?

I moved my seat back a few mm's and now my knee, when the crank arms are parallel with the ground, seems to be plumb with my pedal spindle.

AnthonyG

Congratulations. Your legs are almost as short as mine! I've got an inseam of 670mm. Yours is about 700mm. My quick calculation suggests that 145-150mm would be a good crank length for you which isn't too bad. 150mm cranks are available as used on juvenile bikes and while not common they are out there without having to resort to custom modification although they are not high end items. My experience though is that getting the length right is more important than quality within a certain degree.

I think you are going to be a candidate for a custom bike although you can work your way towards it in several steps which is good actually because you can sort out some issues along the way so that when it comes to a custom you know what you need.

Here's my custom 650c wheeled bike with 140mm cranks in this photo although now I'm using 135mm.



Here's my reccomendation. find yourself some not so expensive 150mm cranks and fit them to your bike. Then buy yourself a rearset seatpost because when you fit shorter cranks you are going to need to move your saddle rearwards to get to KOPS. After you get this setup you will likely need a much shorter stem to get the reach right because you will be moving the saddle back. See what you thing of it. It won't be ideal because the top tube will be too long but I believe that you will be much more comfortable and when you get used to the new position you will perform much better as well.

Regards, Anthony

malpag3

Hmm...time for shin implants.

Thank you fellow shorty! I'll take all the advice in tonight, enjoy the rest of my brew, and ride tomorrow to see what happens.