1X11 v triple chainring
12-18-18, 10:14 PM
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Another reason not mentioned is tyre clearance. In order to fit a 50c or wider tyre on a "endurance bike" with endurance geometry, you have to make sacrifices such as crimping or dropping the drive side chain stay or not leaving enough room for the extra chainring.
12-19-18, 01:38 AM
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The gearing philosophy on racing road bikes is different. The goal is to give you two passes through the corncob section of the cassette. To get shifts that small a 1x cassette would have to be 16 speed or something. 1x works great on a commuter, though.
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12-19-18, 07:39 AM
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When I started biking I accepted what affordable equipment was there in the market and tried to learn how to use it and suffer with its deficiencies, including equipment arriving out of tune. These days I use market equipment as a starting point and evolve it to my needs and, including a flawless working condition. On the main bike, in particular my gearing evolved through 3x7 -> 3x9 -> 4x9 -> 4x8, the latter to take advantage of more robust chains. On a folder I evolved over 2x3 -> 2x2x3 -> 3x2x3. I am sure recumbent people have, here and there, far more elaborate setups. I modified front, rear ders, cogs, rings, tensioners, cabling and shifters when needed. My front shifting on every bike works like butter. For common everyday setups it takes, in fact, under half an hour to arrive at such an operation for front der. If the only way somebody can deal though with equipment is when having 1x11(or more), let them have that.
12-19-18, 08:03 AM
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Think of a triple as having 3 gear ranges: one for steep uphills, one for most of the time and one just for downhills and tailwinds. 11 cog cassettes allows one to use huge rear cogs that eliminate many rider's needs for the extra gear ranges.
I'm down to riding a recumbent trike. It has a 3 X 10 drivetrain but I very rarely find the need to use either the big ring or the granny. Honestly, I don't even know what the gear tooth sizes on my crankset are. If the 10% section of the uphill from the Katy Trail to my condo was a little bit longer I'd probably use my granny more but I really don't ever foresee a need for my big chainring because I just don't ride that fast anymore.
I'm down to riding a recumbent trike. It has a 3 X 10 drivetrain but I very rarely find the need to use either the big ring or the granny. Honestly, I don't even know what the gear tooth sizes on my crankset are. If the 10% section of the uphill from the Katy Trail to my condo was a little bit longer I'd probably use my granny more but I really don't ever foresee a need for my big chainring because I just don't ride that fast anymore.
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12-19-18, 09:04 AM
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I think half the people responding here either missed the part where the OP said “off-road” or are not aware that mountain bikes made for singletrack trail riding are very different animals than road bikes and recumbents.
Yes, I think most people get why 1x11 is not going to work for a lot of people on road bikes or touring bikes. That is not what the OP is asking about (unless he does not know the difference either).
Of course, if we just want to re-hash the 1x vs 2x vs 3x debate for the 1000th time that’s cool too.
Yes, I think most people get why 1x11 is not going to work for a lot of people on road bikes or touring bikes. That is not what the OP is asking about (unless he does not know the difference either).
Of course, if we just want to re-hash the 1x vs 2x vs 3x debate for the 1000th time that’s cool too.
Last edited by Kapusta; 12-19-18 at 11:06 AM.
12-19-18, 10:51 AM
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And before fietsbob suggests it: no, I am not interested in a Rohloff.
12-19-18, 05:34 PM
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Thanks guys for the responses RE front derailleur shifting. It's pretty much what I assumed and was doing intuitively, although I think I need to "back off" even more in some situations, as I've dropped chains to both the inside and the outside a couple of times (on bikes where I'm fairly certain the limit screws are spot on, and that shift the front flawlessly on the stand).
As for the whole 1X discussion, I think we all realize that each of us has unique needs and riding situations, so it's impossible to label anything right or wrong. Personally, part of the reason I like 2X setups is that it's part of the mechanical elegance of a road bike, even if some of you think the front derailleur is an imperfect instrument.
As for the whole 1X discussion, I think we all realize that each of us has unique needs and riding situations, so it's impossible to label anything right or wrong. Personally, part of the reason I like 2X setups is that it's part of the mechanical elegance of a road bike, even if some of you think the front derailleur is an imperfect instrument.
12-19-18, 05:53 PM
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Anyway riding single track with 1x11 is awesome, I can dump 4 gears with one push of the thumb then two pulls of the lever gets me 4 gears up and I'm sprinting away. No muss no fuss
Plus the 11-40 cassette has superior spacing to my old 11-34 9 speed.
12-19-18, 07:38 PM
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4 Rings
4-Stop Shifter
Rear Derailleur
My front is 18-26-34-46. My rear is 12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32. With one twist I move 4 rear gears worth up or down. I had days when I rode both my highest and lowest gears in my setup, because they were fitting the situation and not to demonstrate something.
I had been riding 1x11. It was much better than I expected, but it is nowhere near my 4x8 or 4x9.
12-19-18, 07:47 PM
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How's your crank setup?
Looks like Mountain Tamer Quads are sold out
Mountain Tamer Chainring Adapters, Gorilla Brake Beefers, Gorilla Headlocks and more
Looks like Mountain Tamer Quads are sold out
Mountain Tamer Chainring Adapters, Gorilla Brake Beefers, Gorilla Headlocks and more
12-19-18, 08:24 PM
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How's your crank setup?
Looks like Mountain Tamer Quads are sold out
Mountain Tamer Chainring Adapters, Gorilla Brake Beefers, Gorilla Headlocks and more
Looks like Mountain Tamer Quads are sold out
Mountain Tamer Chainring Adapters, Gorilla Brake Beefers, Gorilla Headlocks and more
12-19-18, 08:52 PM
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12-19-18, 08:56 PM
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My turn: Whatever floats your boat. Enjoy it.
A 1x11 with a 10-42 cassette is a 420% range and 11-46 is pretty close at 418%. If that is not enough, 11-50 is 455%. Is that seriously not enough for mountain biking?
But with just a little bit of work, it’s possible to get to a 720% range that works quite well. I have a 44/34/20 triple with an 11-36 10 speed cassette. I’m not stuck with having good gears for climbing or good gears for going downhill. I have both.
Is the simple fact that you can ditch an entire component of the drivetrain (the end that shifts worse) not an obvious advantage?
I’ve also never found the front derailer that hard to adjust properly. The problem isn’t the mechanism...although it could have been designed better as noted above...it’s that people don’t know how to use it properly.
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12-19-18, 09:00 PM
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This is what you need to start up from a ditch in an iced-up snow. In terms of distance traveled per turn I set up my folder even lower as I periodically take that folder to places that are still rougher than around the house.
12-19-18, 09:21 PM
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How slow can you ride? With a load? I can do under 3mph for a long time if I have the right gearing. With a 24 ft and a 34 rear about 3 to 3.5 is about as slow as I can feel "on top of the gear".
I certainly agree that of road low gearing is different. Sometimes one can get away with a higher low as the slope isn't too long, even if significantly steeper then most of what is seen on road. Sometimes there's no time to shift well and one just has to grunt it out. Sometimes it's the traction at the wheel that is the limit. Sometimes one just wants it easy and dismounts. Andy
I certainly agree that of road low gearing is different. Sometimes one can get away with a higher low as the slope isn't too long, even if significantly steeper then most of what is seen on road. Sometimes there's no time to shift well and one just has to grunt it out. Sometimes it's the traction at the wheel that is the limit. Sometimes one just wants it easy and dismounts. Andy
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12-19-18, 10:04 PM
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12-20-18, 09:56 AM
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How slow can you ride? With a load? I can do under 3mph for a long time if I have the right gearing. With a 24 ft and a 34 rear about 3 to 3.5 is about as slow as I can feel "on top of the gear".
I certainly agree that of road low gearing is different. Sometimes one can get away with a higher low as the slope isn't too long, even if significantly steeper then most of what is seen on road. Sometimes there's no time to shift well and one just has to grunt it out. Sometimes it's the traction at the wheel that is the limit. Sometimes one just wants it easy and dismounts. Andy
I certainly agree that of road low gearing is different. Sometimes one can get away with a higher low as the slope isn't too long, even if significantly steeper then most of what is seen on road. Sometimes there's no time to shift well and one just has to grunt it out. Sometimes it's the traction at the wheel that is the limit. Sometimes one just wants it easy and dismounts. Andy
On a recent bike packing trip, one of my days had a 5.9 mph average for 28 miles of riding with a 6500 foot elevation gain. There were lots and lots of places where I was down to less than 3 mph and still upright. There were also lots of times when I was walking. But I appreciate my low gears for just that reason.
On the same trip, I had two days of downhill. The day before the one above, I lost that 6500 feet over 45 miles and appreciated the ability to hit a max speed of 45mph. I also appreciated the ability to do a 13.5 mph average. On the day after the one above, I had a similar experience. With a 1x system, I would have been able to either climb well or descend fast but I couldn't do both.
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12-20-18, 10:17 AM
#44
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Only thing I would question is do 1x systems really have an increase in wear of the chain and cassettes due to cross chaining ?. Not sure if this is a real issue. In ye olden dayes, with a mt. triple, you could typically use all 7, 8 or 9 of the cogs while in the middle ring without worrying too much about cross chaining and system wear. Or at least you could worry about it but the system could handle the angles without complaining. With typically longer chainstays (as compared to road bikes) the angles were not so steep and in general the system worked OK without a lot of chain drop, unless maybe in a DH race. In practice the usage tendency was rather than shift the front up or down and risk getting "caught" in the granny or big ring, as you encounter a rapid change of terrain, you would simply stay in the middle. Thus maybe the push for wider cassettes. A look at Sheldons gear chart somewhat shows the evolution of large cogs on cassettes. For Shimano systems 7 & 8 went to 32 or 34. 9 spd. went to a 36, 10 went to a 42 and 11 goes to 46. Can't say if this is a case of Shimano responding to user demand, or and as is more likely, Shimano (and SRAM) just pushes what they feel is appropriate for the users, with the result that end users see a 46 and say "I don't need a triple". Or a double.
With 1x I wonder is the 11 or 12 cassette that much wider in terms of space used on a hub, as opposed to a 7, 8 or 9 ? so as to cause much add'l system wear as compared to a 7-8-9 spd. triple system ? I believe the answer is "maybe", but does it become a common complaint from users that "my 1x system wears so much quicker ?". Certainly the cogs are spaced tighter and that accounts for no increase in wear, but the cogs are also thinner as is the chain, and that might increase system wear, maybe counteracted by better materials in use compared to 20 years ago, so that increases durability. Thus a wash overall is my take.
12-20-18, 10:21 AM
#45
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The chains on my 1X bike typically last a little longer than the chains on my 2X bike. But I guess that makes some sort of sense, because there's half the amount of shifting being done. Also, "cross-chaining" is impossible with just one ring.
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12-20-18, 11:11 AM
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Just that with middle of a triple, same as 1 by in chainline, but, 1st and last casssette cog are redundant ratios with a big chainring
(less out of a better alignment) high,
& likewise 3rd chainring, better aligned with the larger cassette cogs
FWIW ...
Efneo GTRO Is a triple gear box single chainring crank .. an Alfine 8 and one of those would be an alternative drivetrain....
single speed chainline..
(less out of a better alignment) high,
& likewise 3rd chainring, better aligned with the larger cassette cogs
FWIW ...
Efneo GTRO Is a triple gear box single chainring crank .. an Alfine 8 and one of those would be an alternative drivetrain....
single speed chainline..
12-20-18, 11:54 AM
#47
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My thoughts on the subject: 1x_vs_double/triple - pros and cons
P.S. Among the Pros of 1x you should have listed a smaller Q factor,
Last edited by 2_i; 12-20-18 at 10:24 PM. Reason: P.S.
12-20-18, 09:58 PM
#48
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The difference is that I don't think you really mean it.
No, it’s no where near enough range. A standard 44/34/22 triple with a 11-34 cassette has a 618% range. That’s almost adequate. If you are only doing mountain bike parks or limited range riding perhaps a 420% range will work but if you are ranging over longer distances where you run into lots of different kinds of terrain...including some pavement...that 420% range is very limited. That link above in shows the a 34 tooth midrange 1X11 with a 10-42 cassette. It has no high and a relatively high low.
But with just a little bit of work, it’s possible to get to a 720% range that works quite well. I have a 44/34/20 triple with an 11-36 10 speed cassette. I’m not stuck with having good gears for climbing or good gears for going downhill. I have both.
If you are satisfied with limited gearing, then whatever floats your boat.
But with just a little bit of work, it’s possible to get to a 720% range that works quite well. I have a 44/34/20 triple with an 11-36 10 speed cassette. I’m not stuck with having good gears for climbing or good gears for going downhill. I have both.
If you are satisfied with limited gearing, then whatever floats your boat.
While I have not set my bike up 1x11 yet, I've run 2x9 for the past ~18 years with an 11-34t cassette with various combos of 22t, 24t, 32t and 36t rings.
With a 24-36 rings and 11-34 cassette, that is 464%, only a hair wider than a 1x11 with a 11-50 (455%). With the 24-36 x 11-34, I have NEVER needed more range, like EVER.
24/34 is as low a gear as I can make use of. Any smaller than that I am spinning faster but it is just not really helping me. I could easily run a 22t ring (I did for a while), but simply don't anymore because it does not do me any good. Even on very long rides.
As far as the 36/11 top gear..... I am never spinning that out on the trail. like, EVER. Consider that DH racers typically go with 38/11 for their top gear. This is tall enough to keep up with people fully armored pointing downhill on 8"-10" travel DH bikes. Maybe you ride faster than they do, but I don't. Heck, I have never even spun out 32/11 on the trail. By the time I reach speeds off-road that 32/11 would spin out, it is how much I use the brakes - not how much I pedal - that decides how fast I am going.
As far as pavement? On a road bike with smoother tires, sure, I would be spinning out 36/11. But on my MTB I'm running ~2.3-2.4" tires with big knobs @ 23-27 psi. These are pretty slow rolling on pavement. And with 750mm wide flat bars I am not exactly the picture of aero, either. The only way I am outrunning 36/11 with that setup is if I am pointed down a pretty steep long hill, and even if I DID have a higher gear (like I used to with a 3x setup) I'm just pushing against a wall at that point. I cannot remember a single time I have ever been going down a big, steep paved hill (which hardly ever happens in the first place) and looked for a taller gear than 36/11 on an mtb. Heck, even with 32/11 high gear, I can count the number of times this has ever happened on two hands, and I really did not care even when it did. It's pavement, I could care less if I crank out another 2mph for a hundred yards or so once in a Blue Moon.
So, I don't really buy the suggestion that I am "limited" by anything, here. I have all the range I want for a trail bike. But I gained meaningful benefits going 2x, and will even more going 1x.
If you are satisfied with traveling across the entire cassette to get from high gear to low gear instead of being able to make larger jumps to middle and/or low range, then whatever floats your boat.
BTW, I don't just do parks and short rides. My riding has included very long rides over all sorts of terrain all over the US. Sierra Nevada Mtns, Rockies, Moab, and all up and down the East Coast. I have literally NEVER felt I was missing out on range with setups that were pretty much in line with what are now possible with 1X offerings.
So yeah, my boat is well-floated.
But if you want more range, that's fine, too. You know what you want. Whatever floats your boat. And I MEAN that.
Now if we are talking about an on-off road bike built up for trail AND pavement, that will be running faster tires.... yeah, I would be willing to give up some of the advantages of 1x or 2x for some added range.
12-20-18, 10:38 PM
#49
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If you want to ride really slow use the brake. It steadies things up. Learned this from the MSF...
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