Chris Pringle

Just a quick follow-up...

I successfully completed my 600 Km brevet this past weekend. I used my own special preventative anti chafing/saddlesore formula and applied it right on my sitbones before the start and once approximately every 200 Km after that. I also changed shorts after getting to the hotel at 385 Km. At that point, my sitbones were sore, but definitely not as much as when I finished the 400 Km brevet. Carbonfiberboy was right -- I hopped on the bike again (with Brooks B17 saddle) and within 10-15 mins I felt comfortable again. The sitbones surprisingly quieted down and I finished the rest of my brevet.

rhm

Obviously, getting the saddle in the right place is really important. Perhaps less obvious, that "right place" is determined in relation to the location of the pedal on the downstroke; and the relationship between the two is controlled by several factors that are beyond the control of the saddle manufacturer. For example, if all other factors are the same, the rider with 175 mm crank arms will want his saddle 1 cm farther forward than the rider with 165 mm crank arms. Likewise, if all other factors are the same, a frame with a 74° seat tube will place the saddle as much as 25 mm farther forward than a frame with a 72° seat tube (this depends on frame size; assuming a 60 cm frame with 12 cm seat post extension, for example, the difference works out to about 23 mm). One of my century bikes is an English frame from the 30's or 40's and its 68° seat tube angle seems insanely slack by today's standards; but when it was designed, racers used a "gallows" type seat post that allowed a great deal of fore-aft adjustment, all of it in front of the post itself. I use a standard old fashioned seat clamp, mounted in front of the post, which gives me a perfectly normal saddle placement vis-a-vis the pedal on the downstroke.

Bicycle frame design has changed a bit over the last half century: the steerer tube and seat tube have both gotten steeper.
And modern riders often use longer crank arms than was common a half century ago (I blame the mountain bike fad for this change).
Meanwhile, Brooks saddle frames have not changed at all. There is absolutely no difference between a 1965 Brooks Pro frame and a 2015 Brooks Pro frame.

So... I would not reject either a Brooks or a Selle Anatomica for the reasons given above. With the correct seat post (zero setback, lots of setback, whatever) you should be able to fit any saddle to any frame with whatever crank arm length you want. If you can't, you need a different seat post.

thebulls

Interesting history. But ... are you going into the seat post manufacturing business? Currently-available seat posts that I can afford do not allow me to ride a Brooks saddle. The only possibility is the Nitto lugged seat post at $204 (Nitto Lugged seat post 27.2 x 250 - 11048), at triple the price of the VO seat posts that I buy. But since I also find SA saddles more comfortable in other respects than Brooks saddles, I can't see why I would spend a ton of money to get a seatpost that lets me ride a saddle that I don't like as much as my current saddle. Of course, there's also Rivet saddles which allow you to set the saddle back far enough. So I would conclude that it is reasonable to reject Brooks saddles for the reasons given above :-).

unterhausen

I agree with Nick on the setback issue. I can just barely get my Brooks pro far enough back on a standard setback seatpost. I have seen SA saddles that are way too far back on a zero setback post, and I suspect they should change their rails to keep that from happening.

I used an Airone this weekend, it went really well. Going to reserve judgement on it. Sometimes I think the Aliante is too hammock-like for me, but it has served me well in the past

Dave Cutter

The Selle Italia Q-Bik SE Saddle

RR3

saddle setback should be to balance your torso....not the silly KOP notion.

Peter White has a good explanation of this.....there is a another one from that Aussie fitter.....Steve Hogg

Lack of balance is a key reason for discomfort on long rides

SEAT SET BACK: for road bikes » Bike Fit » Steve Hogg's Bike Fitting Website

How to Fit a Bicycle

The Myth of K.O.P.S.

rhm

Yeah, that's pretty steep. Not even very attractive, I think. I thought there were more choices; not needing a post with excessive setback, I don't know the market. Note this interesting doodah: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...l#post17672517
Hey, you can reject 'em for any reason you like! But to be fair, you have now introduced the best reason of all: the fact that you don't like them to begin with.

I remain of the opinion that if you really wanted a Brooks saddle, you could make it fit your bike. If it was an absolute total fail, but you still wanted a Brooks saddle, then I'd say you you have the wrong frame. One way or another, there's a mismatch between your frame design and the Brooks saddle design. You can say the seat post angle is too steep, or the crank arms are too short, or the frame builder assumed you would be using longer crank arms, or the saddle is all wrong; they all amount to the same thing. Another option, if you really really wanted a Brooks saddle but couldn't make it fit your frame: I could rivet a Brooks top to a Selle Anatomica (or Rivet, or whatever) frame for you. That's pretty easy. But none of this matters if you prefer the SA saddle anyway.

guidoStow

I can't get the Selle Anatomica for enough forward with a Thompson Zero set back seatpoast on either a 74 or73 degree seat tube angle with 165 crank arms. I'm 6'1 and ride a Soma GR or a Merlin Cyrene. For me it does not work even using all of the tricks. Any further back and my knees hurt. A Brooks B-17 Imperial just works. But I get the best position on a Cobb JOF Randee.

gabedad

SA me too

70Degrees

Bumping this thread because I'm going from a Fizik Aliante to either a Selle Anatomica or a Cobb JOF Randee (both are on order). Based on pictures of the Selle's rails, I think I'll be able to position it where I need. Wondering who on here has experience with the Randee and how it compares to either the Anatomica or the B17 Imperial.

ThermionicScott 

Two anecdotes:

- For the most part, I really like the width and leather on my vintage Brooks B5N. However, about halfway through last year's PBP, I really had to start slathering on the "Butt Butt'r" as my contact points were getting tender. It could well be that my shorts were to blame, but I think it goes to the point that you may not get all the information you need from the first 200k or 300k of a ride (this was my first 1200k).

- I use a regular Brooks B17 on my fixed-gear mountain bike with a 72° or 73° seat tube, and in the past, struggled with getting it back far enough. My thighs would chafe a little bit on longer rides, but I am out of the saddle often enough that circulation isn't a big issue. I belatedly realized that the saddle is just too wide for me -- I wonder how many other "I can't get the saddle back far enough" folks are in the same boat and haven't realized it yet?

guidoStow

I'm still using the Cobb JOF Randee and am still really happy with it. It has so much flexibility of how/where you sit on it that I still find it really comfortable. Slide forward when using the aero bars, sit in the middle when climbing using my glutes, slide back to spin with my quads. It is very comfortable for each position... None of the leather saddles I have tried are nearly this versatile.

ythe1300

ISM Adamo century. It's a good saddle. never had any pain or issues with it. I have a brooks swift as well, it's good on rides. I do miss the cutout when I'm riding with it though.

I think the best thing to take from this post is everyone's a little different.

dim

+1

79pmooney

Seatpost setback. I read in the earlier posts of a number of riders who had trouble with seats either not far enough back (esp the Brooks seats) or far enough forward.

My take on this? Really simple. The big money spent is on the bike. The most important contact point on that bike is the seat. Locating that perfect seat perfectly on the bike is simply a matter of getting the seatpost with the right setback. And if that seatpost cannot be found for sale, it can be made.

I had my two customs made with steep seat angles so I could mount 25c and 28c tires and use fenders while placing the wheel far enough forward for the correct weight balance for me. But I need the seat in the normal place. So I had the builder make me seatposts with 60mm of setback. Clamps are now centered on the rails and I have all the adjust I could ever need. Yes they cost me several hundred dollars; a lot for a seatpost but small change for the most important aspect of a high end bike.

I am not an ultra distance guy. But you guys need a perfect seat location more than I do. (I have done a 130 mile day on a fix gear, one of those two bikes. My butt was fine all day and that night.)

Ben

dwmckee

Since I have been riding a Selle AnAtomica, I have completely forgotten that the dang seat is even there... I do not even think about it until someone brings it up in a thread. That is about the best testament a seat can have!