umd

Somebody has unresolved anger issues. It is not hard to imagine not sticking your arm out if you've done any kind of activity that involves rolling, such as gymnastics, marhsall arts, etc. If you just consider that nothing good will ever come of sticking your arm out while you fall, it's not difficult to train your reflexes to keep your arms on the bars and your body loose while you fall.

kukusz

I've had two crashes this year in crits, both time I held onto my bars and went rolling with the bike over the bars, landing on my ass. Other times I've slid out on rainy days and also held on, hip and thigh taking the force of the fall. I've had practice in other sports to roll out of stuff, and it seemed to transfer to the bike.

531Aussie

I agree! What a crack-up. I bet the bike cops are plodding along on their 3"-wide MTB tyres at 15mph, so they might have time to think about their fall.

This "learn how to fall" crap is the about the dumbest stuff I've read since the 'agruments' against the wearing of helmets. Didn't we do this a few weeks ago?

Maybe if you fall at very slow speeds there's a half a chance to think about the landing, but anything over about 20mph is instinct and reflex. Sometimes ya go down so fast there's no time to get a hand out even if you wanted to. I once went down so quickly (at only about 25kph) that one moment I was checking out the scenery, and the very next thing I knew I was upside down on the asphalt with an inverted view of the road behind me.

If there's time at all to react, the first instinct when you're in trouble is to try to keep or regain control of the bike (which is why so many guys go down with their hands still on the bars), then, failing that (still if there's enough time to react) the next instinct is to put a hand out to break the fall. If you go down at 40kph, there's barely any time to think, let alone make a calculated decision.

531Aussie

What??
He pulled out after the next stage coz he suffered from that crash.
What's so perfect about it? He's rolling around in pain


"One Giro rider who didn't take the start was Discovery Channel leader Yaroslav Popovych. The Ukrainian rider had hurt his back and knee in the stage 11 finish line crash and was feeling the pain in yesterday's mountain stage, losing over 6'00""

https://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007...sults/giro0713

Scorer75

Instinct is the brain's reaction to circumstance. If you have trained your brain to react a certain way, that will become your instinct.

You can train yourself to tuck and roll in the event of an accident, then when you do have an accident, you may avoid certain injuries.

Jared88

"It was very hard to decide to stop at the Giro d'Italia, but I know it is the best decision. I still have many races left this year, including the Tour de France, so all is not lost. I expect to RECOVER QUICKLY and be back in good form for the remainder of 2007," said Popovych.

I don't see how anyone can fall at that speed and not be hurt. If he stuck his arm out he would most probably have broken bones and not be racing for a long time.

frank828

how the hell do you clip out fast enough to do some sort of roll when you're falling??

when i fell, i just held on to the bike and fell over. went well in my case. cracked the helmet and had some pretty bad road rash tho.

flipflop

Yeah...

I've jumped over the handlebars before impact, and rolled off the side when I kissed a curb at speed...
But both of those were on platform pedals.

But the last time I crashed, I snapped my cleat while I was trying to get out...

Flatballer

I did a horizontal track stand today. Started to roll through light, realized it had skipped me in the rotation, put on brakes, fall to clipped in side.

I put my hand out and bruised my palm. Apparently I need more training.

You can definitely be trained though. I used to do it in martial arts. Learn to fall gracefully. You can re-train instinct.

umd

You don't necessarily roll off the bike, you kindof roll with the bike, although you tend to come out automatically in the process of crashing.

This was back in April... I nearly came to a stop but couldn't avoid the pileup. You can see I already came out of the pedals. That's UrbanKnight picture left about to run into me...


He ran into me, his bike pitched up, and he came out...


The force of him hitting me knocked me over. Oops, I put my hand down...

CrimsonKarter21

Do some serious mountain bike riding/racing and you'll all learn how maneuver a bike, and maneuver your body in a fall.

patentcad

It is this Authoritative Fred Wisdom, documented in places like Bicycling Magazine (the Fred Bible) that is the Fredrock of BF.

Basil Moss

I think doing a marshal art in which you learn to fall may help- I did capoeira a lot, and I fall quite well in any situation now. I wasn't taught not to put my hand down (you handstand and stuff a lot in capoeira), but how to do it- never with the elbow locked (that will break your collarbone and or wrist), and never with the fingers first- palm flat, or you break fingers. The fingerless gloves reduce rash to the palm, I started wearing them after my first encounter with road rash. I'd say you can learn things like this- it's what marshal arts are for, but it takes a while to get it at the level of instinctive reaction, which is where it needs to be in most falls.

When I fall in "slow motion", like washing out on a corner, I hold onto the bars as long as I can, and try not to unclip my feet. Sometimes you can recover these slides, and flailing limbs about won't help you to do so. Also I reckon that clipped in and holding the bars is probably the safest place for them as you slide across the road. Keep your head up, you don't want to bump it on the road. Keep it up even more if you have a helmet on- it's twice as big. Bashing your head even through a helmet may stun you, you want your wits about you to jump up and get off the road ASAP, before you get hit by a car, or in a race, make a nuisance of yourself to others.

crtreedude 

I myself have always wondered about the advice "don't stick out your arms!!!". Now, I know you can and probably will break things, but really, you use your hands to prevent injury all the time, how do you instinctively train yourself to NOT do it only when riding? It is my instinct to stick out my arms, but not lock my elbows and use my momentum to roll, not sure how you learn it. But, then again, I don't have cyclist's puny arms either.

My solution, which is not usable by many of you, is to go at a speed generally no more than about 20 MPH - even downhill. But, I am not racing, just going from place to place, taking my time. Excercise is called mountains, I have never had speed problems going up a mountain, for some reason.

So, when I fall, I seem to see it coming a long ways off and generally step off the bike and let is continue to a firey death, without me, thank you very much. I can do this up to about 20 MPH.

I am nearly 50 and I don't heal as fast as I once did. PCad of course figures he is so banged up he has nothing to lose.

So, in short, you can perhaps master falling at slower speeds - at high speeds? My I suggest bubble wrap? A helmet is just going to help your noggin - which might be already damaged if you think you can avoid injury at high speeds...

Grumpy McTrumpy

https://video.google.com/videoplay?do...65005928066231

lots of crashing and getting back on the bike there...sometimes in a matter of a few seconds! There are a few who don't get up though

bravo106

I crashed about 5-6 wks ago when I hit a pothole on a descent. 35 mph is about 51 ft/sec. I was already airborne b4 I realized what happened and only had time for the fleeting thought of "oh, sh*t". In a split second, there's not much time to think about how you want to fall. It's probably better that way since the 1st instinct is to tense up. Better to be a rag doll.

Other than a load of road rash and a helmet cracked in 3 places, i was on my feet immediately and back on the bike after I straightened out a few components. Since my arms were not extended/locked, my elbow (and not collarbone) took the brunt of the fall.

I've had years of marTIal arts training as well as riding/racing mtn bikes, so falling wasn't new to me. Maybe in my case, it's become instinctive, but the faster you're going, to think that you can assess the situation mid-crash and have time to react is ridiculous.

531Aussie

spot on!

jefferee

During a clipless fall, there is plenty of time to remind yourself not to stick your arm out.

Don't ask me how i know this.

Motman320

Let it die already.

nzjohnm

You can definitely learn how to fall. Watch people in 'extreme' sports like snowboarding, wakeboarding or bmx and the pros can get up from something that you would never expect. But people who haven't had the experience falling will hurt themselves. I think that you can definitely learn how to fall well. In some cases there is just no chance that you are going to be fine after, but you can definitely master falling.

hammond9705

Get a better light and avoid the pothole.

mazdaspeed

I'm gonna call BS on this. Yeah it's probably better than flailing about but the road rash on the back of my hand and my broken collar bone prove that you won't always just roll.

umd

you are still more likely to break it if you do stick it out. You won't always break it if you do and you won't always save it if you don't... You and I are proof of that.

531Aussie

No it's not. Collar bones are usually busted when the impact is on the outside of the shoulder, which happens when the hands are kept on the bars. Other shoulder injuries, such as dislocations, etc, etc, can be caused by having the hand out.

This might sound silly, but eilte track riders often avoid serious impact injuries coz most 'eilte' velodromes are very steeply banked, so they don't fall as far. True! If you go down on a 45 degree bank, that's falling half the distance than you would if you hit a flat road. Also, sliding as they land slightly reduces the impact. Also, also, track riders are often heavily muscled, which can protect the collar bone.

531Aussie

I had a nasty smash at the races last night, and I had very little warning to do anything, even if I wanted to: one moment I knew I was in trouble, then I had about 10 milli-seconds to try to save myself before I hit the deck at about 40kph. I went down so quick I didn't have time to make any considered decisions, let alone get my hand off the bars, even if I wanted to, so i landed 'evenly' all down my left side (shoulder, arm, elbow, arse, hip, thigh, knee, outer calf and ankle). Luckily, my delts are so buff that I my collar bone had a lot of protection.

Anyway, like I said, this argument is the dumbest thing I've heard since the agruments against the use of helmets. When I first heard it of BF, I thought it was a gag. Even if all this BS was true, it seems to be a 'choice' between possibly breaking a wrist or a collar bone.