I-Like-To-Bike

I would include that configuration in the category of "The Few". That would change the answer a bit, from "few, if any" to a few IGH bikes may be found somewhere if looked for hard enough that require a chain tensioner. Thanks for the clarification.

Wilfred Laurier

I love love LOVE my Alfine 8 speed. As mentioned above, it felt a little slow in the cold until I did the ATF dip, as shown in interweb videos. Also, as with any cable operated system, it does need periodic adjustment, but only ever with the barrel adjuster. Whenever it feels like the shifting is rough (like once or twice per year) I shift it into 4th (the adjustment reference gear), flip the bike over, and adjust the cable with the barrel adjuster so the yellow dots line up. Otherwise maintenance free.

acealthebes

I have a the Giant seek. Best bike I have ever owned for commuting. Super low maintenance. The hub is great, you can shift at any time, even stopped. No, you don't have to stop the bike to shift, that is not true. Only complaint about the seek 1 is that it is heavy, but hey, it is a commuter bike, I am not trying to win the TDF. Would recommend the giant seek 1 100%

kickstart

Gazelle uses a chain tensioner in a chaincase they call the flowline on many of their contemporary city bikes.

I couldn't find an image that shows the IGH setup, but here's the same tensioner in the Friiik chaincase that uses a unusual internal derailleur.

Reynolds 

I've ridden my commuter with Nexus 8 for 17000kms so far without any problems. Modified it with an oil port at 6000kms and used ATF from then on. It's not the best for sporty riding, as it's heavy and the gears are not evenly spaced, but for a commuter it's very good.
BTW, you don't need to remove the split ring/sprocket (it's not too difficult either) for doing the oil bath.

Robert C

I am going to comment that my daughter got an8 speed Alfine for regular use and found this to be a significant problem. It was very hard for her to work with. She eventually got a Rohloff hub almost entirely for the low maintenance of a IGH with a removal system that was easy to use.

wschruba

The newest revisions as of a year (?) ago now have the same finger catch that the Alfine 11 has, so no struggling trying to turn the shift joint to unhook the cable. The trick is that the older style also has an easy way to turn it--with a 2mm hex key inserted in a small hole in approximately the same location on the cassette joint.

I find, with forward facing dropouts, it's no harder to remove than any other wheel with a tiny bit of practice. Track ends, of course are slightly different, but then, they're more difficult to remove a wheel from regardless of the shifter.

Speed comes with familiarity...the first time one does something, tends to be slow.

kickstart

My hubs are the old style, and you are correct. Using a hex key, jewelers screwdriver, or even a small nail in the provided hole makes all the difference, and can easily be carried in a patch kit.

CrankyOne

We have a bunch of IGH bikes. Most are Workcycles (Nexus 3 & 8, Nuvinci) and a variety of others with Nexus and Sturmey. Overall very reliable. Nothing better for reliable daily transportation or recreational riding. Obviously they are not for racing.

Oil bath is not critical. Even for 0f or below. It helps, but only a little. For maybe 20f or above I don't think I'd bother.

Rear wheel removal is a bit of a pain (except on several Workcycles that allow for removal of a portion of non-drive-side rear triangle instead). With good tires like Schwalbe Marathons and good tubes this shouldn't be necessary very often (once every 5 - 10 years?) for most people.

Ours get adjusted maybe every 3 to 5 years. Twice per year seems like a bad stretchy cable or loose clamp.

I'm a big Dura-Ace fan for road bikes but our bikes with IGH get the most use.

tjspiel

Oil bath made a very noticeable difference on mine, but I'd agree that if it's never below 20 it's not worth going to a special effort to do. When it does come time to re-lube though, it's probably as easy or easier to give it an oil bath as it would be to re-grease.

PawLurk

Any idea where a person could obtain themselves one of these Chaincases with an internal tensioner?

I've only been able to find the Gazelle Flowline attached to a £2k bike

kickstart

Probably through a Gazelle dealer as its a OE proprietary item.

Reynolds 

Update: still working OK at 32000kms.

Banzai

I don't recommend the Alfine to anyone, ever. I had one for a time, and it was nothing but headaches. It's a great idea in theory, and I still love the idea of it, but not the actual execution.

First, I'm not a novice bike mechanic. I'm very good. I build all my own bikes, shy of welding of the frames. I only ride my own handbuilt wheels. I can disassemble and service an Alfine hub.

Mine had issues from day one, in that it "skipped" in 5th gear. This is where the roller clutch engages for under/over drive, and my roller clutch was faulty. While BF has a lot of Alfine love, search MTBR and you'll find that this problem is not uncommon. In fact, a friend of mine who currently runs Alfine is starting to have 5th gear problems now.

Bike shops were useless to help. For starters, they don't typically know what they're doing with an IGH. One kind of did, but ignored me when I explained all the steps I'd taken, and charged me $100 to pull the core, lube it, and put it back...which is something I'd already done, and can do. And you guessed it, it didn't solve the problem.

Also, that is a routine service that needs to be performed, so depending on your LBS's abilities and pricing, be prepared to shell out the money for "transmission service" every year to every-other-year.

In really cold weather, the shifts would sometimes not engage anywhere, leaving me spinning noisily in a weird place between gears.

The shifting was exceptionally sensitive to the tiniest imprecision...so much more than even the raciest multi-speed road groupset.

Wheel/tire changes are an utter faff. God help you on a cold and wet day.

With a derailer, if my cassette/derailer jam or stop in the cold, it never does so in a place between gears. It's always somewhere. Plus, I can just stop and knock the ice off. Lubricating the chain, cleaning the cassette, and servicing the hub is so much easier. Wheel changes are effortless by comparison.

If your core fails mechanically, unless you can source another, you are looking at a new wheel build. If a derailer fails, you are looking at a new derailer. If your cassette rots, you are replacing a cassette. Bearings on a standard hub are easy to maintain and service.

The list of activities and types of cycling that Shimano claims the Alfine is unsuited for is exceptionally long, and essentially includes any level of exertion above the most casual and soft-pedaling spin around the block. And while a realize that much of that is driven by lawyers, it tells me a lot about the level of warranty support you are likely to get. To read the legal disclaimers, Alfine isn't made for cycling at all. I was shocked to see an Alfine 11 on an Xtracycle Edgerunner in a store, since I know that Shimano says the Alfine isn't meant for hauling like that.

IGHs are a neat idea. That's about it.

reidconti

I pretty much like the way my Alfine 8 works and shifts.

As I'm sitting at work with a flat rear tire, I'm bloody hating the thing.

FORGET about roadside repairs, IMO. I just posted this today:
Does it have to be a colossal pain to change a rear tire on a geared hub bike?

It looks like the Giant also has a rear disc which MAY require caliper removal to remove the rear like my bike. God help you.

dieselrover

You say daily. I don't see many of the folks in the thread who love the Alfine say they also ride XX miles daily with an XX pound pack on.

Personally, I commute 20 miles a day with about 20lbs worth of extra gear and I weigh 185. I needed my Alfine adjusted once per month to keep it functional at all. I had a Rolhoff and loved it. Only sold it to finance a second road bike.

IMO - if you're not willing to go Rohloff and you rely on your bike for tens of miles of daily commuting, then don't do it.

s

reidconti

Okay, early days for me.

12 miles daily, 220# rider, 10+lbs in the panniers, no adjustments yet. But I've only done about 2 months so far. I've followed a few of these threads and never heard people talk about frequent adjustments even over tens of thousands of km.

acidfast7

Was the frame originally engineered for an IGH?

Banzai

The only way to "engineer" a frame for IGH is to have a built in way to tension the chain, and the ability to run continuous housing.
The Alfine counter turn washers for vertical dropouts and chain tensioner make the first point n/a. That my frame could be set up for continuous housing took care of the second.

acidfast7

If your frame isn't intended for IGH from the outset, you're likely to have issues that you're discussing.

Excellent examples of IGH-specialised frames include those like these:

https://www.fahrradmanufaktur.de/en/...-gang-disc-774

Anyone playing with aftermarket chain tensioners, counter-turn washers and/or vertical drop outs is in for a world of hurt as there's way to much flex and slop in the system that it will never shift correctly. In fact, it would be better to change frames at that point.

Just buy the correct frame from the get-go and don't try to rig it with aftermarket bits.

doubravsky 

I have the Breezer Beltway with the Alfine 11 speed version... been pretty happy with it. Shifting seems pretty dynamic, I like the quietness of the belt....

Banzai

Dude, these aren't "aftermarket bits". They are Alfine components...every last one of them.

acidfast7

For a retrofit, unless the frame came with an IGH. Just about every complaint I've ever heard about a IGH (Shimano and Rohloff) have been upon trying to fit an IGH on a frame that didn't initially come with one. That's what I'm getting at ... was is it a retrofit? If so, it's never go to work nearly as well as an IGH-specific frame. Especially, when there is any frame flex as the distance between rear axle and BB will slightly change as will the ability to maintain a straightline which is essential with an IGH. Non-IGH equipped frames are not subjected to this level of testing and thus retrofitting is a poor idea.

For example, a picture of the frame I attached is engineered to prevent this torsional twisting and will keep everything in a absolutely straight line regardless of speed, terrain or torque. A standard retrofitted frame will not accomplish this.

Banzai

Rolhoffs need specific mounts. Alfine doesn't.

A frame doesn't need to be "engineered" for Alfine. Alfine uses counterrotation washers no matter what dropouts are utilized...the ones you use depend on the orientation of the dropout.

Shimano makes a chain tensioner for use if you have vertical dropouts. This doesn't impact the performance of the IGH.

You don't know what you are talking about regarding the Alfine hub. Of all the things that were a failure about it, the lack of frame engineering is certainly not one.

acidfast7

Look. You tried the retrofit and it sucked.

That's my point. If the frame was built and you didn't retrofit, you wouldn't have had such a bad experience.

Just look at the poster with the Alfine-11 equipped Breezer.

In the end, I don't really care as it's not my ride, but it's not the fault of the Alfine, it's simply a poor application choice.

It's like putting a 914 engine into a Käfer/Bettle. One can do it, but it's going to be a ****ty ride.

Just get the correct frame.

I even posted an excellent option. Or ride the piece of crap that you built.