gomango

OFG and I found our Super Prestiges at about the same time.

We compared notes a bit back and forth.

We came to the similar conclusion.

That is a sweet rider for sure.

That bike thrives on windy roads in the 18mph plus speed range.

There's a hill we go down into Taylors Falls, MN that is an absolute blast on the bike.

I happen to like the build details as well.

Paint is an acquired taste to be sure....

I get some C*** for the splatter paint on the SP, but most like the Sintesi's finish a great deal.

thinktubes 

I wonder how much of the "mystic" is related to an Italian bike also being the first good bike that a person buys.

In my case, I had owned some low/ mid range bikes before buying a used Battaglin with Shimano 600. This bike was 2-3 pounds lighter than anything I had owned previously. For the first time, I could feel the road and the handling was responsive, without being twitchy or slow.

Over the years, I've owned 853 steel and tried Ti, but keep coming back to 80's Italians.

CroMo Mike 

I ride four Italians so you would think I'd be somewhat biased. I've tried some other rides and the one non-Italian that impressed me the most with its Italian-like ride is my son's 1985 Fuji Team, which has race geometry and uses butted lugged Japanese cromo tubes with Suntour Superbe components. One thing that is clear is that you have to compare top-end bikes, because there's no way a mid-priced mass-produced bike of no-name tubing is going to compare, no matter how good it looks. Geometry, wheels, and tires also make a big difference in feel.

So is the mystique fact? Maybe, but not exclusively. Ride what ever feels good to you. I hope the guys who are criticizing your non-Italian bike are just messing with you. But ask to try theirs and make up you own mind.

Vonruden

Nice Gomango, Enjoy!

There are lot's of great riding bikes from all over, one of my favorites was a PX-10 w Reynolds 531, sold it though. I am biased towards Italians, however there are too many great American builders to list. My 1989 Land Shark is right there with my DeRosa.

repechage

The farther you go back in time the more that statement is true.

Masi and Pogliaghi in the 60's were pretty similar I have found. I forgot Cinelli almost too, who used heavier tubing often.
Colnago started evolving with the Super and even those bikes have changed. I do think Ernesto introduced a formula of front end geometry that was very much copied by others over time.
The next big Italian trend was shorter top tubes for a given frame size.
Gios, Pinarello and others notable visible early adopters.
I am pretty sure this was a result of the Italian Federation for Sport doing some research which was passed on to the makers.

There are other subtle differences, the above is by no means complete.
Another thing to note is that Italian builders frequently used cast bottom bracket shells, Sand cast then investment cast, a bit heavier but probably a good tradeoff of weight to stiffness.

kroozer 

Get one and see for yourself what all the fuss is about. If you don't like it, it's not not having a kid, they're easy to resell. As others have mentioned not all Italians are the same, and the riding charateristics will differ between marques, eras, etc. I think it's very subjective and a large part is based on mythology, but there's nothing wrong with that as long as you don't take it too seriously. With vintage bikes the actual performance is only part of their appeal. Italian bikes are nice riders, of course. But for me they also have a great heritage-- I think they really epitomized the racing bicycle for a good part of the 20th century. There's a different feel when you're riding something that everyone else copied.

rando_couche

IME (50 yrs cycling, 7 yrs bike biz including svc mgr/pro mechanic @ one of Seattle's top shops), most Italian bikes are no better than run-of-the mill, and pretty much interchangeable. The only one that I've ridden that made my short list is DeRosa. If you can cope with the idiosyncracies (sp?), I prefer French bikes: more character, equal functionality and less over-rated (and -priced).

SP
OC, OR

rando_couche

For the price difference, it'd effin' well BETTER win!

SP
OC, OR

JPZ66

I agree with what was stated by another contributor.....a seasoned, knowledgable, expert builder, using quality materials and custom building a frame to fit you....no matter the nationality, will build an awesome bicycle. That said, it does seem to me that for 'standard' builds, a greater percentage of Italian builders get it right and make it sweet from the get go ! But I think there are or have been more Italian artists in the world of bicycle frame building as a whole.

Joe

gomango

There's a tricky part about this De Rosa "superiority" as well.

A Primato or Giro d Italia built from ELOS is not the same beast as an SL or SLX framed model.

Some subtle and some not so subtle handling differences/characteristics are present across these models.

The differences in the CF models further confuse this matter.

FWIW One of the scariest rides I ever had was on a Neo Pro descending a three kilometer run of s turns near my wife's brother's house in Bayern.

That was the mushiest front fork I have ever felt. Literally felt like it was going to fold under me braking at high speed.

I couldn't wait to get off that thing.

cbresciani

^ I must say, I really do like the feel of the ELOS tubing on my Primato.

jimmuller 

Tomorrow BF member JJScaliger and I intend to do 75 miles or so (a birthday ride for me, premature by 5 days and overshooting the mark a bit, but what the heck). I debated which bike to ride. The other day in the basement I thought I heard Faliero and Eduardo arguing about my decision to ride the Bianchi. I explained I've never ridden it that far before so I wanted the experience. "The Tailor" said he understood but next time I should use better judgment. Just sayin...

Neither bike was made in Italy.

gomango

...and enjoy we did.

St. Paul to Hastings and back.

64 total miles, one lunch with two Surly Abrasive ales and lots of laughs.

Windy, cold and back home in one piece.

Wet leaves obscure potholes and add an element of real danger this time of the year.

I did ride the De Rosa today and it is now filthy.

I have been thinking about selling this bicycle, but it would take a fair amount of change to pull this one from my grasp.

They really are great bicycles.

Blue Belly

It's all about styling. If that ain't your thing, you'll never get it. & we always know who you are...

tarwheel 

I've owned and extensively ridden several Italians (Gios, Bianchi, De Bernardi), a couple Belgians (Merckx), a Brit (Bob Jackson), Taiwanese (Salsa) and Americans (Gunnar, Waterford, Litespeed, Ritchey) and can conclusively say that I can draw no conclusions correlating a bike's ride by its nation of origin. The Waterford is the best riding bike I have owned, but it was a custom that I bought used and would have been way beyond my budget otherwise. My steel Italian bikes all have ridden and handled very nicely, but the aluminum Bianchi was a jackhammer on bumpy roads. The De Bernardi is the only Italian bike I currently have in my collection and a real keeper; I call it my poor man's De Rosa.

gomango

Is your De Bernardi built from SLX?

buldogge

…or…a rich man's Titan.

-Mark in St. Louis

Zinger

Lol. And Italian metal just has that certain aesthetic flair.


My Trek 970 is purdy in an American kinda way though so it suits me better than the Pinarello Montello that I never quite got around to. Maybe a poor boy's Bianchi Tipo Corsa someday (Shhh - We don't hafta tell anybody they're made in Taiwan).....My Campy Chorus RD awaits.

Sixty Fiver

If I could only have one... it would be British.

repechage

There was one that appeared very close to this one visually on ebay last year, but slightly smaller. It had a high initial price, $400. and got one bid. I thought about sniping it, but my one experience with a Ron Cooper made me shy. A co-worker at the bike shop I worked for in 1974 had one, terrific looking in British Racing Green, but something was off. Remember this was from the "criterium" period of race bike design, it darted, when you turned the physical rise, drop of the head tube was unnerving to me. The owner of the shop and the co-worker talked about it at some length, an adjustment to the fork rake was made, l recall like a half inch, I forget which direction. Much better.

A year later I bought a much more radical frame by Harry Quinn, somewhere I have the specs on it and it was fun, fun, fun. I don't know what was off on that one Cooper but it was wrong.

flash2070

Definately fact in my opinion! I can't compare the Italians with high end American or Japanese because I have never ridden any. I have, however, ridden many Italians like Rossin, Romani, Simoncini, Colnago, Tommacini (2), and my Basso. They all have quite impressive and spectacular rides, but in my humble opinion my Basso is the one I would choose if I could only have one. I also just obtained a Pogliaghi, but it's in the restoration stage, so I have not had the pleasure of riding it to compare to the others, but I know that the Basso brothers mentored under Sante Pogliaghi. I haven't ridden a De Rosa, or Masi, and others, so I can just compare to what I have tried. I would definitely encourage you to try an Italian (Basso)! :-) If you do not like it you can always resell it. If you're quick, and on top of it, you can find one for $300 approx. Good luck! Here's a pic of the Basso. It was suppossed to be all blue, but unfortunately someone didn't have anything to do on a Sunday, and decited to get creative and paint the top tube white. :-)



P.S. That saddle is long gone, it currently has a Concor Supercorsa

Flash

tarwheel 

sl

Giacomo 1 

This.

So much of the mystique is the heritage. No other country can boast such a rich history of cycling as the Italians. I mean, who doesn't want to ride the same bike as Bartoli or Coppi or so many other greats?

I will say though, the mystique and greatness of Italian bike is real to me. My Basso is just flat out fast. I can't take a relaxing ride on the thing, it just always urges me to go quicker. And nothing handles as quickly as my Colnago Super. Really quick and nimble yet never twitchy or unpredictable. Both are superior rides. Yeah, I'm a fan of the "mystique"...

spacemanz

I'm really just a newbie, when it comes to bicycles, but I've been pretty lucky about finding a few nice frames. My best riding AND best fitting bike, is my 1971 Frejus Professional, made in Torino, Italy from Reynolds 531 steel. I'm pretty sure double-butted, going by the weight. It has that lively feel a few folks have mentioned, where it makes you a faster & better rider than you really are. I've had less good luck, with Columbus tubing, but that's mostly a fit thing, so I haven't given up on it.

jimmuller 

Another opportunity to post this: