gomango

We are spoiled rotten in the Twin Cities metro.

Lots of decent shops and some truly great ones.

Looks like you have developed a great relationship with these folks in Fridley.

I have two or three shops that I feel the same way about, and I know I'd give them any of our bikes to work on if I need to/feel like it.

I send business to these guys constantly, and they certainly appreciate that as well.

rhm

I'm afraid the phrase "hire monkeys, pay peanuts" comes to mind. At the hourly rate bike shops offer, they cannot really expect to get competent mechanics. I've seen great, really great, mechanics at work; and I've seen the opposite. It's really hard to tell which you're going to get, and they charge about the same. As a result I'm very cautious about taking my bikes in for any kind of 'professional' attention.

I can't believe you guys who don't build your own wheels! That's one of my favorite things to do. I'm not saying I'm particularly good at it, but paying someone else to do it would be right up there with paying someone else to ride my bikes for me.

Trakhak

Two-prong freewheel removers (Regina, Suntour, etc.) can be difficult to use correctly without damage to the freewheel or the tool. It was about 25 years ago, but I still remember cringing at the sight of a fellow mechanic merrily stripping one after another of the shop's Suntour pullers while failing to remove the freewheel. I should have stopped him after the first failure and demonstrated the correct technique. Here it is, and feel free to pass the info on to your mechanics (diplomatically or otherwise):

(1) Remove the quick-release skewer.

(2) Install the freewheel puller.

(3) (The crucial step!) Reinstall the quick-release skewer and screw it down onto the freewheel puller as tightly as possible!

(4) Use a big wrench or (preferably) a vise to break the freewheel free by turning the puller just a few degrees of rotation.

(5) As soon as the freewheel breaks free, loosen the quick release skewer about 1/2 to 1 turn.

(6) Continue turning the puller a couple of degrees and loosening the quick release skewer about 1/2 to 1 turn until the freewheel begins to unscrew freely from the hub.

robatsu

It is almost impossible to overemphasize how important this step is if you value your hub's freewheel threads and how easy it is to forget in the burst of glorious joy following a virtually welded-on freewheel suddenly loosening after a grim struggle to the death to free it.

Don't ask me how I know...

lotek 

Richardson Bike Mart, there I said it.
Jack (see TxVintage's post above) ranks right up there with the best when it comes to wrenching, and he is a legend
at the Frisco shop. There are a core of young mechanics (late 20's to mid 30's?) who appreciate and own some vintage
bikes. They either have the right tools to work on the bike, or will refer me down to the main shop to see Jack.
l knew I was in good hands when I brought in my 1st Zieleman with stuck fixed BB cup. I had already tried
everything, including Sheldon's method, nada. One of the young guns takes the frame, puts it in a workstand,
gets out a VAR BB removal tool and a 3 foot cheater bar and asks me to hold the frame, worked a treat
as our Brit members would say.
I consider myself and my fellow BF members in the area very lucky
Marty

khatfull

Yeah, I agree Grady.

All I know is when I wheeled the 72 Newest into Fridley Heights the guy behind the counter let out a big long, "Whoaaaaaa".

I knew I was in the right place

lostarchitect 

This is something I'd love to learn how to do, but I just don't know if I want to invest in a stand for something I'd probably only do once a year... Maybe one day I'll find one on the side of the road or something.

khatfull

Works for me every time too although I don't have a vice. I do have a big box wrench that I use and I roll the wheel up to a wall so that the rotation of the wrench forces the wheel into the wall. Never had an issue getting one off. Anymore I shoot the threads from the back with PB Blaster too.

The skewer is absolutely necessary.

Puget Pounder

I am sorry about your bike shop troubles...

A shop should have a mechanic more competent than yourself, but you always have to cast your doubts. I had a competent mechanic measure a spoke for me since I needed a replacement right away. He loosened it and pulled it out and scraped my new polished CR18s without even caring. Not a big deal, but but even a mechanic that I trusted was careless enough to do that.

Just realize that it's your stuff and you have to protect it like your baby. I always specify exactly what I want... even if it makes me sound like an A-Hole.

Glennfordx4

+100

I hate bringing anything to someone else to work on, I mean I don't make my living as say a auto mechanic but that's not to say I don't know how to do my own work I am to busy to or unable to due to health issues so when one comes to me trying to pad my bill or messing something else up while working on my car/truck they are not dealing with someone who doesn't have a clue.

tugrul

As tightly as possible?

The way I learned it is to leave a little bit of slack so it doesn't impede the loosening of the freewheel, but not enough to let the puller pop out.

khatfull

The teeniest amount of play, but not much for that initial breaking free.

Drillium Dude 

What's so damned frustrating about this particular situation is that, with the right removal tool (and correct application of the same) the job should've been a cinch. Heck, if I'd had the correct tool I'd have done it myself - I only took it in because I did not.

The main thing to remember with freewheel removers, two- three- or four-prong, is they all differ in wall thickness. Add to that the differing inside diameter of the outermost cog and you have a recipe for disaster (particularly in the case of alloy cogs) if the mechanic isn't paying attention.

Thankfully I'm down to only two two-prong freeweels; over the years I've been fortunate to locate plenty of splined Reginas. I have the correct, thin-walled remover for those and regularly swap them out or clean/re-oil them. No problem.

Wheel building: I wouldn't exactly tag my own lack of skill/application in this area "paying someone else to do it would be right up there with paying someone else to ride my bikes for me". We all know our limitations; for me, wheel building is where I draw the line. Skill comes into it as well; and I did try to build a set - once. Ha ha, that was a total failure I'm too old to be learning new tricks, so I'll just stick to my normal wrenching and be content that I've pushed the boat out on the drillium thing.

DD

scozim 

Kind of in the same boat on wheels. I just don't have the time right now to do a lot of my routine maintenance (it gets done but takes awhile) with a growing family. Wheels are one of those areas I've left alone.

I've left my bikes at the shop - so far no problems. But, I also count myself lucky - the shop has had the same owner since 1982 and he's extremely knowledgable on the old stuff and keeps an eye on his mechanics when they're doing work. He's got specific ways he wants things done.

I'm sure something will happen some day - I've just been lucky I guess.

repechage

Unfortunately vintage bikes are becoming like vintage cars, one needs to seek out a specialist or observe a mechanic enough to have some confidence that he or she knows what they are doing. Unless a young mechanic has a special interest in vintage bikes, they don't have, need or collect the special knowledge that keen observation or long term experience provides. They do not come in contact with this equipment enough.

There are very few I would ask or allow to touch my stuff. This includes tools for guys who would wish to borrow. Been there, and shed the tears of regret.

DD's description of events had a series of red flags, he caught some and was not able to intervene in time elsewhere. Ouch. As for what to do it depends on the potential value of the offending shop to him in the future.

tashi

I've had less-than-satisfactory interactions at the bike shop, but I think I'll use this thread as an opportunity to give props to my LBS:

Oak Bay Bikes, you guys rule! The mechanics know their ****, old or new, mountain, road, or BMX, they have a guy that knows how to wrench on it. They let me poke around in the shop, and send me the good deals when I need something. I help keep the beer fridge stocked, which is generally a good investment once you find a shop that you like. A few six-packs have saved me huge $$ on labour and parts charges.


Edit: we should totally be allowed to say " s.h.i.t"

Also: Good observation on needing a specialist, repcharge. With how quickly tech changes, it's unreasonable to assume that a 22 year old would know anything about really old stuff - he already has to deal with all the differences between the modern stuff, much of which is far more sophisticated and variable than the old kit. But he should know his limits, but this requires a bit of knowledge in and of itself...

miamijim

Not always. I cant tell you how many Suntour 2 prongs I've broken the prongs off of with proper technique, once the first prong goes the tool cants and thats how you mess up a freewheel body. I've also twisted and sheared off a few of those ultra-thin wall tools for Regina's.

P_M

Sadly, this is a major issue. I can't live on what I'd make as a bicycle mechanic. I loved the work. LOVED it. I would love to get out of what I do (Systems Analyst) and go back to working on bicycles. But in the situation I'm in (and it won't change) there is no way I could do it and remain competitive.

Even when I was doing it the shop owner would express his concern at how long it was taking. I took pride in what I did, and never let anything go out that I didn't think was done well or wouldn't feel safe on.

We had one customer bring in a bicycle that needed a lot of work. Bearings had to be replaced or repacked on both hubs, BB, and headset, wheels trued (to the best of what could be done because I was told to keep it inexpensive), every cable needed replacing, the tubes were flat - a real piece of work. In the end the bill was $70 - far below what I thought was fair but the owner had I guess told this lady it was a "tune up". Ha. When she came back she was upset about the bill, said she'd only paid $30 for the bike at a garage sale, and wouldn't pay. He let her go with it and I ended up having to defend that what I did made it no more than ride worthy and safe.

To be fair that was one of the worst stories, but it was a common theme that it was about quantity. There are good mechanics out there, and some great ones, and apparently they have good shop owners who value quality workmanship.

I also agree with the comment that the shop owner should make it right and replace any parts that were damaged. In fact, if people did this maybe a shop owner would think twice about who he/she is hiring and raise the bar on quality. It usually doesn't take that much longer to do a good job than a substandard one.

Back to the OP, I would be extremely upset. I expect a shop to make something better not worse.

SoreFeet

I know how you feel...I stupidly tried to true my own wheel and really made it much worse. So I went the LBS for support. They charged me 20$ to true the wheel. I wasn't happy with the results. They said no problem bring it back in and we'll tune it again. I took it back...They called me and said your wheel is done.

I came in and they said "that'll be 10$"

I said "Here is your 10$ now be aware that I'm going to tell everybody in town that you jerks don't do it right the first time and charge for the second time"

khatfull

Don't you know that labor rates are generally 1.5x to 2x more when ANYONE has to undo DIY work gone astray?!

Grand Bois

You learned it right.

robatsu

I started building wheels about 12 years ago or so. Just up until a few weeks ago, I never had a stand, just always used the frame/fork on a bike and a brake or other tricks for the gauge. That included the learning process. Built great wheels that way. Anyhow, I just got my Park Tool TS2.2 and built a set of wheels on it. It was a little quicker and easier, but I don't think the end product was any better and me having a truing stand is really an extravagance, I just happened across a pretty good deal on one.

If you want to build a wheel, and not everyone does, you shouldn't let not having a stand hold you back. The geometry of a wheel (dish, roundness, runout) is pretty easy to measure with crude tools and the tolerances for a perfectly acceptable wheel are actually somewhat less than most people (including me) true a wheel to, especially in the case of roundness and dish.

Homebrew01

Correct, so that it will become tight once the freewheel breaks free, then loosen 1/2 turn & repeat if needed.

old's'cool

I think the real issue is, what constitutes a "mechanic". By my definition, a real mechanic would not commit any of the transgressions cited here, except in the case of a serious lapse that the mechanic would take full responsibility for and make right, by whatever means necessary.
A chimp wielding tools is not a mechanic. Sadly, that's what gets passed off as a mechanic too often these days.

khatfull

Too funny, same here...I picked up a 2.2 off local CL a few weeks ago for a nice price. I still have the Feedback Sports stand that I started with but the Park is so much nicer. I seem to build more than my share of wheels for some reason so it's worth it to me.