Minimum touring gear and skills for remote roads
09-10-15, 08:18 AM
#26
Prefers Cicero
Thread Starter
What bike do you intend to take, cooker? Do you know much about the condition of the roads you intend to travel -- all sealed, partly, or gravel, or lumpy forestry tracks? What sort of daily distances do you do now, how do they compare with what you intend to tour, and will what you wear daily cope with that distance?
They're questions which help round out the basics. For instance, and this probably isn't the case, but... if you ride a road bike commuter with 700 x 23C tyres on gravel roads, you'd probably be asking for trouble with tyre issues.
But for the scenario you have painted, having a good multi-tool and puncture repair kit, and a good, reliable pump that you have tested before departing, plus some energy bars along with adequate water, a good, breathable waterproof cycling jacket and a pannier or large handlebar bag would be enough to get you through a two-day out-and-back tour staying at a motel.
They're questions which help round out the basics. For instance, and this probably isn't the case, but... if you ride a road bike commuter with 700 x 23C tyres on gravel roads, you'd probably be asking for trouble with tyre issues.
But for the scenario you have painted, having a good multi-tool and puncture repair kit, and a good, reliable pump that you have tested before departing, plus some energy bars along with adequate water, a good, breathable waterproof cycling jacket and a pannier or large handlebar bag would be enough to get you through a two-day out-and-back tour staying at a motel.
No Google car has ever visited Red Lake, but from the government road map it looks like only the main highway is paved (and presumably streets right in town).
Last edited by cooker; 09-10-15 at 09:53 AM.
09-10-15, 08:22 AM
#27
Senior Member
Here's a previous thread that gives some thoughts on the minimum of stuff you need to go on a tour. It would certainly work for the OPs situation.
https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/98...you-carry.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/98...you-carry.html
09-10-15, 09:21 AM
#28
Senior Member
I would add to the suggestion of having robust tires in very good shape will pretty much eliminate any worries of tire problems. I've toured for about 25 years and never had a tire issue and having good quality tires that were new or newish will always put the odds in your favour.
All this talk of having to walk 30kms or whatever is really a moot point to me, if your bike is in great condition the chances of a problem is just so so small--again, this is from my experience of riding in general, sure you will read of people's breakdowns of tires being wrecked, but I ride a lot and never have been stranded--but not from luck, but from my bikes and tires being in top shape.
If you do put real tough tires on your bike Friday, some of them are real hard buggers to get on and off, so doing a test "flat" fix in the comfort of your own home will let you know how it will go. Different rims and different tires can vary greatly in how hard it is for getting a tire on and off. I mention this because a friend recently had a flat with a continental touring plus , and on the rims on her Cannondale tourer, it was harder than hell to get the tire back on. Luckily her husband had some super super tough Pedro's plastic tire levers that got it on finally. My regular ones that I've had for ages and have changed countless flats would have broken...
So just a heads up.
All this talk of having to walk 30kms or whatever is really a moot point to me, if your bike is in great condition the chances of a problem is just so so small--again, this is from my experience of riding in general, sure you will read of people's breakdowns of tires being wrecked, but I ride a lot and never have been stranded--but not from luck, but from my bikes and tires being in top shape.
If you do put real tough tires on your bike Friday, some of them are real hard buggers to get on and off, so doing a test "flat" fix in the comfort of your own home will let you know how it will go. Different rims and different tires can vary greatly in how hard it is for getting a tire on and off. I mention this because a friend recently had a flat with a continental touring plus , and on the rims on her Cannondale tourer, it was harder than hell to get the tire back on. Luckily her husband had some super super tough Pedro's plastic tire levers that got it on finally. My regular ones that I've had for ages and have changed countless flats would have broken...
So just a heads up.
09-10-15, 09:26 AM
#29
Prefers Cicero
Thread Starter
The mosquitoes and black flies are legendary in Northern Ontario, although not so bad by August. What do the Appalachian hikers do without tents - stay in motels or sleep in in a bivvy bag or under a net?
09-10-15, 09:41 AM
#30
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I did a tour in Southern Ontario, where I trashed a tube by bunny hopping over railway tracks (with a loaded bike). Yes, it was a bad idea.
I repaired it twice, but for whatever reason my repair didn't want to hold. I didn't bring a spare tube. I ended up walking about 10 miles. Then I called a relative who came and picked me up and drove me to her city, which was my destination that day anyway. The next day, I was happy to find a local bike shop with everything I needed. I took the opportunity to buy wider tires with steel belts and better tubes, and I didn't have another flat on that bike ever.
You can survive one broken spoke for a short distance. If you do your own maintenance you will have more confidence, and you will be less likely to break down.
I think if you are staying within reasonable distance of a main road you will be fine. As long as you can get back to a main road where there will be the occasional car you will be ok.
I repaired it twice, but for whatever reason my repair didn't want to hold. I didn't bring a spare tube. I ended up walking about 10 miles. Then I called a relative who came and picked me up and drove me to her city, which was my destination that day anyway. The next day, I was happy to find a local bike shop with everything I needed. I took the opportunity to buy wider tires with steel belts and better tubes, and I didn't have another flat on that bike ever.
You can survive one broken spoke for a short distance. If you do your own maintenance you will have more confidence, and you will be less likely to break down.
I think if you are staying within reasonable distance of a main road you will be fine. As long as you can get back to a main road where there will be the occasional car you will be ok.
09-10-15, 09:48 AM
#31
Prefers Cicero
Thread Starter
All my questions are answered, but carry on everybody, if you wish! 
Thanks all.
Thanks all.
09-10-15, 10:55 AM
#32
Senior Member
Taking a tent when motel touring would never occur to me. I'd be unlikely to even take the bivy unless I planned to camp. If the roads were remote enough and I wasn't planning to camp, I might take a couple large black trash bags for shelter just in case.
09-10-15, 10:56 AM
#33
Senior Member
Then your buying the wrong tents.
I own two tents and neither leaks.
They weren't chump change and both sold under the New Zealand Macpac brand. (Minaret and Microlight)
Honestly, if you've tents that take on water even in torrential rain, then you've been seriously short changed by your brand.
Not hard to research good brand tents.
My philosophy is don't skimp on shelter or warmth (tents and sleeping bags) as doing so on either is the difference between getting a decent nights sleep and not.
I own two tents and neither leaks.
They weren't chump change and both sold under the New Zealand Macpac brand. (Minaret and Microlight)
Honestly, if you've tents that take on water even in torrential rain, then you've been seriously short changed by your brand.
Not hard to research good brand tents.
My philosophy is don't skimp on shelter or warmth (tents and sleeping bags) as doing so on either is the difference between getting a decent nights sleep and not.
09-10-15, 11:10 AM
#34
Prefers Cicero
Thread Starter
09-10-15, 11:15 AM
#35
Prefers Cicero
Thread Starter
Make sure your bicycle is in good repair before you go, and that you've got decent tires on.
Bring basic mechanics stuff ... tire changing equipment and a multi-tool. Know how to change a tire or deal with a broken spoke or chain.
Bring a bivy on the off-chance you might end up staying outside. You can get small emergency bivies at MEC. An emergency blanket of some sort and small inflatable pillow might come in handy too, without taking up much room.
Camping : Health and Safety : Emergency Blankets and Bivies - Mountain Equipment Co-op (MEC). Free Shipping Available.
Bring at least 2 large bottles of water, and check the map to see if there are places to refill. If not, you'll likely want a third in your bag.
Bring 2 or 3 packages of oriental noodles, some granola bars, and maybe a couple bananas. Check the map to see if there are any spots to get more food.
Do you want to bring a stove? If not, scrap the oriental noodles, and bring some bagels and cheese or nutella or something like that.
I wouldn't worry about bears while cycling. Just keep an eye out. If you do stop for the night, however, make sure you and your food are some distance apart. Cougars might be more of an issue, but rather unlikely. I have seen one in the wild and wasn't sure what I was supposed to do, but it left me alone. I suppose you could bring some bear spray if you wanted.
Bring a decent rain jacket which keeps out cold as well. And a toque, mitts, and heavy wool socks, just in case.
Bring a light which will attach to your bicycle ... white for front, red for rear. Or at the very least, bring a flashlight.
Bring basic mechanics stuff ... tire changing equipment and a multi-tool. Know how to change a tire or deal with a broken spoke or chain.
Bring a bivy on the off-chance you might end up staying outside. You can get small emergency bivies at MEC. An emergency blanket of some sort and small inflatable pillow might come in handy too, without taking up much room.
Camping : Health and Safety : Emergency Blankets and Bivies - Mountain Equipment Co-op (MEC). Free Shipping Available.
Bring at least 2 large bottles of water, and check the map to see if there are places to refill. If not, you'll likely want a third in your bag.
Bring 2 or 3 packages of oriental noodles, some granola bars, and maybe a couple bananas. Check the map to see if there are any spots to get more food.
Do you want to bring a stove? If not, scrap the oriental noodles, and bring some bagels and cheese or nutella or something like that.
I wouldn't worry about bears while cycling. Just keep an eye out. If you do stop for the night, however, make sure you and your food are some distance apart. Cougars might be more of an issue, but rather unlikely. I have seen one in the wild and wasn't sure what I was supposed to do, but it left me alone. I suppose you could bring some bear spray if you wanted.
Bring a decent rain jacket which keeps out cold as well. And a toque, mitts, and heavy wool socks, just in case.
Bring a light which will attach to your bicycle ... white for front, red for rear. Or at the very least, bring a flashlight.
Thanks
09-10-15, 11:17 AM
#36
Senior Member
"If its nice out you dont need a tent, if it's not most tents dont keep all the water out anyway"
You don't appear to have much camping experience, as the previous fellow noted, any reasonable tent will work fine in rain.
Cook--are you planning to do this next august?
You don't appear to have much camping experience, as the previous fellow noted, any reasonable tent will work fine in rain.
Cook--are you planning to do this next august?
09-10-15, 11:24 AM
#37
Prefers Cicero
Thread Starter
How do tourers deal with drive-side rear spoke breakage? Don't you need to use a special tool to remove the cassette? I think I did it once several year ago and it was huge chore. I think I needed a long wrench and a pipe to extend it and even then had to hit the end of that rigged up lever with hammer to loosen the cassette, after I broke my bench vise twisting the wheel with the cassette tool clamped in the vise. But maybe that was an older style of freehub - it was quite a few years ago and I'm forgetting the particulars.
09-10-15, 11:29 AM
#38
Senior Member
How do tourers deal with drive-side rear spoke breakage? Don't you need to use a special tool to remove the cassette? I think I did it once several year ago and it was huge chore. I think I needed a long wrench and a pipe to extend it and even then had to hit the end of that rigged up lever with hammer to loosen the cassette, after I broke my bench vise twisting the wheel with the cassette tool clamped in the vise. But maybe that was an older style of freehub - it was quite a few years ago and I'm forgetting the particulars.
09-10-15, 11:31 AM
#39
Senior Member
09-10-15, 11:35 AM
#40
Prefers Cicero
Thread Starter
Maybe, and then more in 2017. Right now I fly up for a 2-5 day consulting visit 4 or 5 times a year and fly right back to my regular Toronto office, but in 2017 (age 65) I plan to scale back my main job to maybe half time, and do a few more consulting trips if the work is available. It would be nice to spend a couple of extra days exploring those northern areas with no rush to fly home for work. So I might try it out (once?) next year (probably nearer Toronto) and then a bit more in the north the following years, assuming continuing good health etc. Even so, it is likely to be pretty non-hard-core - probably one to two overnights max and only in summer. And mostly not in such remote areas - I was describing "worst case scenario" in the OP. If I was biking, lets say, from Thunder Bay to Ouimet Canyon or Sleeping Giant Park, I wouldn't be too far from help at any time.
Last edited by cooker; 09-10-15 at 07:49 PM.
09-10-15, 11:36 AM
#41
Prefers Cicero
Thread Starter
Thanks - I think I was remembering a previous experience with an old bike with an older style freehub or freewheel (?)that hadn't been off for 30 years. So with a newer setup do you just need to remove the locking ring and cogs to insert the spoke? Or the freewheel too? I have to relearn every time I do some bike repair 
Last edited by cooker; 09-10-15 at 12:23 PM.
09-10-15, 11:42 AM
#42
Senior Member
Again, the chances of this happening, especially if you don't have a lot of weight on the bike and the spoke tensions have been checked, is very small. On my first bike trip i over thought everything and took all kinds of tools, to my detriment of too much weight overall. If you haven't changed a spoke before and or tried a wheel, again it's a moot point. You say you ride regularly, have you had spoke problems with the bike Friday before?
If not, riding with let's say 20lbs in rear panniers is not going to over stress your wheels. If concerned, ride with panniers regularly when you get them, with some weight in them and see how the wheels are. Unless you are really heavy, you'll still be within the range the bike and wheels were designed for.
I'm sceptical of those cassette crackers, if a cassette is on fairly tightly, as is the case often I've found, frame damage is possible--not my experience but I've read reports of this enough to be wary of them.
If not, riding with let's say 20lbs in rear panniers is not going to over stress your wheels. If concerned, ride with panniers regularly when you get them, with some weight in them and see how the wheels are. Unless you are really heavy, you'll still be within the range the bike and wheels were designed for.
I'm sceptical of those cassette crackers, if a cassette is on fairly tightly, as is the case often I've found, frame damage is possible--not my experience but I've read reports of this enough to be wary of them.
09-10-15, 11:57 AM
#43
Senior Member
Cooker, was writing last message so didn't see the last ones.
So you have lots of time to explore rack options etc for your bike and to see how it rides with panniers of clothes and basic stuff.
I'll say again, that's great that you are thinking of doing something new and no matter how you do it, distances, places, whatever, it will be fun. Riding regularly before you do go is always a plus, for all kinds of reasons, not the least of being in shape and knowing that the bike is comfortable for x kms of riding, that the seat works along with what you wear--the basic stuff.
The rest is just using common sense with planning how far too ride and all that.
Cheers
So you have lots of time to explore rack options etc for your bike and to see how it rides with panniers of clothes and basic stuff.
I'll say again, that's great that you are thinking of doing something new and no matter how you do it, distances, places, whatever, it will be fun. Riding regularly before you do go is always a plus, for all kinds of reasons, not the least of being in shape and knowing that the bike is comfortable for x kms of riding, that the seat works along with what you wear--the basic stuff.
The rest is just using common sense with planning how far too ride and all that.
Cheers
09-10-15, 12:24 PM
#44
Prefers Cicero
Thread Starter
09-10-15, 02:45 PM
#45
Senior Member
BTW, I agree that carrying one is probably unnecessary, but given that it weighs a half ounce it isn't a big deal to carry either.
09-10-15, 02:49 PM
#46
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I have a friend who does solo day rides in Henry W. Coe State Park, which is almost borders his property. His wife got him one of these, and insisted that he carry it:
The Best Personal Locator Beacon and Satellite Messenger | OutdoorGearLab
For emergencies, and letting people know you are okay. There are many different models and companies that offer them, some are emergency only, some have user pre-programmed messages. Only the very expensive ones allow for real time two way communication.
The Best Personal Locator Beacon and Satellite Messenger | OutdoorGearLab
For emergencies, and letting people know you are okay. There are many different models and companies that offer them, some are emergency only, some have user pre-programmed messages. Only the very expensive ones allow for real time two way communication.
09-10-15, 03:16 PM
#47
Senior Member
My personal experience with cassettes is that only a few clicks isn't enough, I've worked on bikes where I found the lock ring was nearly loose. I've also found that over tightening isn't good either for shifting, but I kinda feel that most cassettes are locked down rather tightly (thats just from thinking of the cassettes I've taken off, most are on pretty darn right)
I guess I've had good wheel experiences over the years, hardly any broken spokes in all my years riding, so yes the cra cker things are light, but you also need the cassette tool and a wrench big enough for the removal tool--and then we still get into the area of knowing how to true a wheel.
Obviously on a remote trip out in the middle of nowhere one has no choice but to deal with broken spokes, but nearly 25 years ago I realised I just didn't need all this stuff and would just get to a store if needed, which happened only once in France in maybe 92 or 93. Loosened my rear brake and could still ride for a day of so until we got to a town with a store.
That same bike got checked out properly afterwards and never broke a spoke again and I commuted with it on the terrible Montreal roads for years.
I still haven't found or bought a fibre-fix thingee but for me, they are the way to go for non expedition type trips.
I guess I've had good wheel experiences over the years, hardly any broken spokes in all my years riding, so yes the cra cker things are light, but you also need the cassette tool and a wrench big enough for the removal tool--and then we still get into the area of knowing how to true a wheel.
Obviously on a remote trip out in the middle of nowhere one has no choice but to deal with broken spokes, but nearly 25 years ago I realised I just didn't need all this stuff and would just get to a store if needed, which happened only once in France in maybe 92 or 93. Loosened my rear brake and could still ride for a day of so until we got to a town with a store.
That same bike got checked out properly afterwards and never broke a spoke again and I commuted with it on the terrible Montreal roads for years.
I still haven't found or bought a fibre-fix thingee but for me, they are the way to go for non expedition type trips.
09-10-15, 05:40 PM
#48
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Thanks! Actually I have a couple of other questions for you or Rowan (or anybody) about Bike Friday touring. Have you used the suitcase/trailer setup? If I fly somewhere with the bike in the suitcase, and then go off on the bike, I either need a place to stash the case where I can come back to it, or I have to use the trailer set up. What have you guys done? Also what racks/panniers have you used with BFs and how has it worked?
Thanks
Thanks
But we are thinking about a trip to New Zealand, and for that we might try cardboard boxes.
Rowan will have to tell you what racks we've got on the bicycles.
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Rowan
My fave photo threads on BF
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Photo Gallery
09-10-15, 06:50 PM
#49
Senior Member
Cooker, I've read some trip journals on CrazyGuyonabike by folks who have travelled using BF , take a look over at the site and perhaps by searching using BF you can turn them up. Recently there was a fellow who spent a few months going through Mexico etc on his BF and he pulled the trailer/suitcase behind him.
In any case, look up some journals and you probably will find some more details of racks etc etc, I know there are diff BF models but the one the Mexico trip fellow has performed very well, and this guy (about your age btw) has done a lot of touring on full size bikes, so has a good perspective on how BF are as tourers with stuff on them.
There was a couple who biked in Costa Rica with theirs too I think, from a few years back. The couple is from Germany but the husband is Argentinain or something, so has a Latino name. They used panniers and racks, might be a better reference rather than the guy who pulled the trailer.
have fun doing some research.
ps, here are the two, were very easy to find.
the Costa Rica couple
https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/...c_id=9977&v=IA
and Mexico guy
https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/..._id=15328&v=pN
In any case, look up some journals and you probably will find some more details of racks etc etc, I know there are diff BF models but the one the Mexico trip fellow has performed very well, and this guy (about your age btw) has done a lot of touring on full size bikes, so has a good perspective on how BF are as tourers with stuff on them.
There was a couple who biked in Costa Rica with theirs too I think, from a few years back. The couple is from Germany but the husband is Argentinain or something, so has a Latino name. They used panniers and racks, might be a better reference rather than the guy who pulled the trailer.
have fun doing some research.
ps, here are the two, were very easy to find.
the Costa Rica couple
https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/...c_id=9977&v=IA
and Mexico guy
https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/..._id=15328&v=pN
Last edited by djb; 09-10-15 at 06:54 PM.
09-10-15, 07:44 PM
#50
Prefers Cicero
Thread Starter