Maelochs

What I dislike is that Phil Liggett (for whom I have a ton of respect, given his history) pronounces "Vingegaard" as "Vingegoo" and now the entire NBC staff has started to do the same. I like the world feed better, therefore.

BobsPoprad

The correct way...

Maelochs

Thanks very much. I appreciate the clarification. (Text: "To say his name–the Jonas is going to be with a Y. So Y-Own-us. The last name: Vinge sounds like Inga, with a V and a very soft G. Then gaard is basically like saying “go” but with a very soft r at the end.")

Not what I hear the NBC team saying, but they are trying.

One of these days I will listen to see if they say every rider's name in his own language. I know Bob Rolle is pretty good on Italian and Spanish names .....

PeteHski

Cheers, much appreciated. We are lucky to have some really good pundits on the British channels, who know infinitely more about racing than me. From the old guard like Sean Kelly through to guys like Bradley Wiggins, Robbie McEwen and Geraint Thomas on his podcast.

Maelochs

Yeah. Rolling Bob definitely goes for "Vingagoo" which is alright I guess .... considering "ven-ga-gard" (which is how I had been saying it) is also wrong.

Too bad about Tadej.

bruce19

Chris Horner


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xS0z0rQYbU

pstock

this writeup of the time trial, by ex-pro Michael Barry of Mariposa Bicycles is quite intelligent.

https://mariposabicycles.ca/2023/07/...eid=44ff79a5f6

ofajen

Thanks for this! I enjoy his videos.

He also mentioned Pogacar’s bike change and loss of time and momentum in his time trial segment.

Add in the technique, practice and aerodynamic factors discussed in the other linked article, and the time trial result seems almost obvious and much less surprising.

Otto

PeteHski

The difference in time on that TT was way beyond any marginal gains from aero or technique. If Pog had lost by 10, 20 or even 30 seconds then you could say it was possibly due to the bike change, aero or cornering technique, but 1 min 38 sec is all about Watts. It's not like Pog is an amateur TT rider. Jonas simply crushed it on sheer sustained power

Maelochs

Pogacar was worn out because he didn't train enough because of his broken wrist, is the latest wisdom.

Which gets me really excited to think about next year's Tour.

Maelochs

Interesting though, that Horner is sort of stuck mentally in his own style of riding ... the way races were raced ten of fifteen years ago.

Nowadays riders are much more aggressive, and tend to ride faster, in part I think because of improved aero and also due to much better nutrition .... nowadays riders take in over 100-200 calories an hour, way more than nutritionists ever thought humans could absorb …. With special gels and drinks (carbs and/or protein) and such, finding exactly what combinations of ingredients can provide fuel and properly digest without taking too much blood from the legs or lungs ….. and training is so scientifically adjusted to target each rider’s strength and ability …..

Chris Horner keeps talking about “They need to get the break get five minutes … “ but nowadays the break can keep ahead of the peloton sometimes ….. a minutes in 10 k no longer applies. Sometimes the peloton cannot close a minute gap in the final 20 k.

Maybe it is because the peloton rides so close to the limit that it cannot speed up that much …. and should strategically slow down. And maybe if the peloton slowed, the break would slow …. And then maybe the break would ride more slowly. But maybe then the riders in the break would still be strong enough to keep away.

Cycling has gone through a lot of changes since the doping era (sort of) ended in around 2008-2012 or whenever. The way riders ride, the bikes they ride, (Nico Roche is always commenting on how incredibly fast riders descend nowadays with wider, stickier tires and disc brakes on aero frames) and they way they eat and train. Most teams have nutritionists counting every gram of carbs, fat, and protein, and measure the glycemic index of every carb, and adjust each rider’s meal to teach rider’s immediate condition. Some teams actually bring entire bedroom suites to each hotel so the riders can get properly rested.

Also, riders are a lot more aggressive just be aggressive. In the older days riders saved a lot of energy, whereas now they go hard all the time.

I look at the era of Team Sky’s dominion as the peak of that …. “marginal gains” where they used resources so scientifically the races were dull almost. But even Sky used to push the pace to wear out the opposition, whereas before that the peloton would almost rest during a lot of stages and then blast really hard for the last 30 K and run down the break.

Also, GC riders usually saved themselves for the very last bits of key stages, unlike nowadays where the GC contenders go head to head whenever possible. Because of modern fitness levels, these riders can fight hard throughout a three-week race and still be strong at the end.

Today’s style of racing is just a different model. Just as the kind of things riders could do while doping heavily only worked while doping heavily, today’s style only works with bikes, and riders, nutrition and training all optimized. It would never have worked before.

Not saying it is the best, but it is how things are now.

Chris Horner is still (to a degree) looking at racing through the lens of the ways people raced when he was active. But there has been a fundamental change in riders and bikes and how the two work together.

PeteHski

For sure his TdF prep was compromised this year. In contrast I think Jonas had a perfect lead up.

They have different strengths too. Pog is obviously more punchy while Jonas is a diesel climbing machine.

Pog also can’t help himself going for stage wins when he might do better to calm down a bit and pace himself over 3 weeks. He did the same last year. All guns blazing in the early stages and then blew up on the big mountain stages.