1997 Specialized Sirrus N+1
10-19-23, 04:18 AM
#26
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I don't know what you're responding to, but I don't think there's any misinformation or confusion. We all recognize a standard downtube shifter mount, and yes those are the most common type. What is making you bonkers?
10-19-23, 07:52 AM
#27
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10-19-23, 09:19 AM
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1- not surprised you dont reconize the actress.
2- nothing is making me bonkers and I havent said that. I said its bonkers that there was confusion over basic downtube shifter bosses earlier in the thread. Same as if I say something is 'nuts' or 'crazy'. That doesnt mean I am those things, I am calling something else those things. This is basic conversation tracking that you are failing at.
3- posts 5 and 7 are the guessing/misinformation that I was referring to since those are just basic downtube shifter bosses with STI cable stops attached. Shops that have been around for a few decades likely have a drawer of these STI cable stops since they came with STI shifters for years and often werent needed. Post 7 especially, since it waxes poetically over how a couple of frame designers were apparently putting their midas touch on a bog standard steel frame from the late 90s, even though big bike frame tech had largely moved to carbon and aluminum by then.
4- To just add to the discussion, 'Direct Drive' tubing was just Specialized's marketing term. Thru the years there was Direct Drive tubing that was specfically listed as Tange, so it was clearly Tange tubing. There was Direct Drive tubing that was specifically listed as Prestige, so that would also be Tange. Then there was just 'Direct Drive' tubing and that would have come from various suppliers and spec'd in whatever butting and profiles Specialized wanted(same with the tubing listed as Tange and Prestige, to be clear). Non-specified tubing was not inherently worse or lesser than Tange tubing since once again the branding didnt actually give any details. It was likely just 9/6/9 butted tubes in whatever profile Specialized requested(or the manufacturer/supplier suggested). Guess time- by '97 I doubt a ton of 'engineering' was being done by Specialized to design a mid-level steel road bike frame.
5- Are those Ritchey dropouts?
6- I agree it will probably be a fun ride.
10-19-23, 12:36 PM
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Good lord.
1- not surprised you dont reconize the actress.
2- nothing is making me bonkers and I havent said that. I said its bonkers that there was confusion over basic downtube shifter bosses earlier in the thread. Same as if I say something is 'nuts' or 'crazy'. That doesnt mean I am those things, I am calling something else those things. This is basic conversation tracking that you are failing at.
3- posts 5 and 7 are the guessing/misinformation that I was referring to since those are just basic downtube shifter bosses with STI cable stops attached. Shops that have been around for a few decades likely have a drawer of these STI cable stops since they came with STI shifters for years and often werent needed. Post 7 especially, since it waxes poetically over how a couple of frame designers were apparently putting their midas touch on a bog standard steel frame from the late 90s, even though big bike frame tech had largely moved to carbon and aluminum by then.
4- To just add to the discussion, 'Direct Drive' tubing was just Specialized's marketing term. Thru the years there was Direct Drive tubing that was specfically listed as Tange, so it was clearly Tange tubing. There was Direct Drive tubing that was specifically listed as Prestige, so that would also be Tange. Then there was just 'Direct Drive' tubing and that would have come from various suppliers and spec'd in whatever butting and profiles Specialized wanted(same with the tubing listed as Tange and Prestige, to be clear). Non-specified tubing was not inherently worse or lesser than Tange tubing since once again the branding didnt actually give any details. It was likely just 9/6/9 butted tubes in whatever profile Specialized requested(or the manufacturer/supplier suggested). Guess time- by '97 I doubt a ton of 'engineering' was being done by Specialized to design a mid-level steel road bike frame.
5- Are those Ritchey dropouts?
6- I agree it will probably be a fun ride.
1- not surprised you dont reconize the actress.
2- nothing is making me bonkers and I havent said that. I said its bonkers that there was confusion over basic downtube shifter bosses earlier in the thread. Same as if I say something is 'nuts' or 'crazy'. That doesnt mean I am those things, I am calling something else those things. This is basic conversation tracking that you are failing at.
3- posts 5 and 7 are the guessing/misinformation that I was referring to since those are just basic downtube shifter bosses with STI cable stops attached. Shops that have been around for a few decades likely have a drawer of these STI cable stops since they came with STI shifters for years and often werent needed. Post 7 especially, since it waxes poetically over how a couple of frame designers were apparently putting their midas touch on a bog standard steel frame from the late 90s, even though big bike frame tech had largely moved to carbon and aluminum by then.
4- To just add to the discussion, 'Direct Drive' tubing was just Specialized's marketing term. Thru the years there was Direct Drive tubing that was specfically listed as Tange, so it was clearly Tange tubing. There was Direct Drive tubing that was specifically listed as Prestige, so that would also be Tange. Then there was just 'Direct Drive' tubing and that would have come from various suppliers and spec'd in whatever butting and profiles Specialized wanted(same with the tubing listed as Tange and Prestige, to be clear). Non-specified tubing was not inherently worse or lesser than Tange tubing since once again the branding didnt actually give any details. It was likely just 9/6/9 butted tubes in whatever profile Specialized requested(or the manufacturer/supplier suggested). Guess time- by '97 I doubt a ton of 'engineering' was being done by Specialized to design a mid-level steel road bike frame.
5- Are those Ritchey dropouts?
6- I agree it will probably be a fun ride.
I said "my 2c", so.... phftt.
I/we/and you know full well that Jim and Mark had a profound effect on much of what Big S did, plenty of baked in that continues to this day.
10-19-23, 12:43 PM
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I genuinely have no idea how much of what Jim and Mark did is baked in and continues to this day. I couldnt even confidently guess even if I had a 30% margin for error.
10-19-23, 01:12 PM
#32
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MTB geometry, tech, and materials are 180 from 20-30 years ago. Road materials and tech are 180 from 20-30 years ago. Gravel bikes now exist.
I genuinely have no idea how much of what Jim and Mark did is baked in and continues to this day. I couldnt even confidently guess even if I had a 30% margin for error.
I genuinely have no idea how much of what Jim and Mark did is baked in and continues to this day. I couldnt even confidently guess even if I had a 30% margin for error.
And also rightly compel you to deride me/us for it?
I get the shifter boss thing and truly doubt that any grand design went into them, but again you never know, Big S did very little without good reason which again as I said had/has a lot to do with Jim and Mark's influence, however long ago it was.
Mark was still involved as recently as 2014 with the Anniversary Allez and yes a small project but an important one none the less.
10-19-23, 01:27 PM
#33
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True enough but does that completely exclude me from expressing my opinion however spitball from what I think I have learned and surmised.
And also rightly compel you to deride me/us for it?
I get the shifter boss thing and truly doubt that any grand design went into them, but again you never know, Big S did very little without good reason which again as I said had/has a lot to do with Jim and Mark's influence, however long ago it was.
Mark was still involved as recently as 2014 with the Anniversary Allez and yes a small project but an important one none the less.
And also rightly compel you to deride me/us for it?
I get the shifter boss thing and truly doubt that any grand design went into them, but again you never know, Big S did very little without good reason which again as I said had/has a lot to do with Jim and Mark's influence, however long ago it was.
Mark was still involved as recently as 2014 with the Anniversary Allez and yes a small project but an important one none the less.
But accept that sometimes your baseless spitball will be called bonkers.
And accept that having your baseless spitball guess called 'bonkers' is hardly derision.
Sorry, but saying 'you never know' when there is 0 actual evidence to support the idea/suggestion does not lend credibility to weight to that idea/suggestion. The frame may have been fabricated 27 years ago by underpants gnomes from South Park. You never know, right?
As for Jim and Mark(I love how we are all apparently on a first name basis in this conversation. Funny.) being involved in Specialized, I am well aware of their involvement thru the decades. I am well aware of the Allez creation story- from DiNucci designing the bike to spec'ing tubes and lugs.
Ill throw you a bone here and point out that DiNucci created(helped create?) the SWorks side of Specialized, and that branding continues to this day. There ya go- an example of influence that is baked in and continues.
And yeah, I understand DiNucci did an anniversary Allez. I just looked up info and a quick search shows he signed on to produce 74 frames and was not involved in the company before or since. Perhaps thats correct, or slightly incorrect, or fully incorrect. Maybe DeNucci is actually running the company and we are all unaware. You never know, right?
10-19-23, 10:35 PM
#34
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Express your opinion, even if its a spitball that has no basis on knowledge. Have at it.
But accept that sometimes your baseless spitball will be called bonkers.
And accept that having your baseless spitball guess called 'bonkers' is hardly derision.
Sorry, but saying 'you never know' when there is 0 actual evidence to support the idea/suggestion does not lend credibility to weight to that idea/suggestion. The frame may have been fabricated 27 years ago by underpants gnomes from South Park. You never know, right?
As for Jim and Mark(I love how we are all apparently on a first name basis in this conversation. Funny.) being involved in Specialized, I am well aware of their involvement thru the decades. I am well aware of the Allez creation story- from DiNucci designing the bike to spec'ing tubes and lugs.
Ill throw you a bone here and point out that DiNucci created(helped create?) the SWorks side of Specialized, and that branding continues to this day. There ya go- an example of influence that is baked in and continues.
And yeah, I understand DiNucci did an anniversary Allez. I just looked up info and a quick search shows he signed on to produce 74 frames and was not involved in the company before or since. Perhaps thats correct, or slightly incorrect, or fully incorrect. Maybe DeNucci is actually running the company and we are all unaware. You never know, right?
But accept that sometimes your baseless spitball will be called bonkers.
And accept that having your baseless spitball guess called 'bonkers' is hardly derision.
Sorry, but saying 'you never know' when there is 0 actual evidence to support the idea/suggestion does not lend credibility to weight to that idea/suggestion. The frame may have been fabricated 27 years ago by underpants gnomes from South Park. You never know, right?
As for Jim and Mark(I love how we are all apparently on a first name basis in this conversation. Funny.) being involved in Specialized, I am well aware of their involvement thru the decades. I am well aware of the Allez creation story- from DiNucci designing the bike to spec'ing tubes and lugs.
Ill throw you a bone here and point out that DiNucci created(helped create?) the SWorks side of Specialized, and that branding continues to this day. There ya go- an example of influence that is baked in and continues.
And yeah, I understand DiNucci did an anniversary Allez. I just looked up info and a quick search shows he signed on to produce 74 frames and was not involved in the company before or since. Perhaps thats correct, or slightly incorrect, or fully incorrect. Maybe DeNucci is actually running the company and we are all unaware. You never know, right?
