Anyone tour using a double not a triple?
#26
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I had a 48x32 front chainring that I used for touring with a 11-34 rear but there were many hills and I walked a lot of them. I switched that to 48-28 and found it much better (didn't walk any hills). The 20 ring difference is drastic and needs to be planned for. To go to the inner, I need to shift down 2 on the rear at the same time otherwise the cadence shift is a bit much. Overall though, I like the 28 inner ring a lot better although it has been falling off a lot too..... Ideally I would run a 44-28 but it is hard to find a 44 to fit my crank.
#27
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One more positive note on a triple.
I like to have a lot of gear choices for the range of gears where I do most of my pedaling. On a tour I spend the vast majority of my time in the 55 to 85 gear inch range, a tiny bit of time on gears over 100 gear inches for shallow downhills or strong tailwinds. And a small but important amount of time using a small number of really low gears for serious hill climbing.
It is a lot easier to set up a bike with that kind of gearing when I have a triple. Both the middle and big rings can be used on the flatter sections of road where I spend a lot of time and want a lot of gear choices. And a small single granny gear that is used only for the few gears I need for hill climbing. Even though I am running only an eight speed cassette, I have seven gears between 55 and 85 gear inches where I spend most of my time. And I have adequate lower and higher gearing for both downhills and uphills with a total range of 558 percent.
I also have seven gears in that 55 to 85 gear inch range on my road bike with a compact double and ten speed cassette, but that bike lacks the bigger gears for downhill and more importantly it also lacks the low gears for steep uphills. (I do not tour on that bike, I am only using it as an example.) In this regard I find my eight speed triple setup to be far preferable to a double with a ten speed. Thus, I am sticking with a triple for touring and for my rando bike. My road bike with a double will just be used for flatter riding that is shorter distance where it is unlikely that I will come across much in the way of hills.
And for that same reason, you will never find me on a 1X system either.
For touring I think about 550 percent range of gearing is a minimum. I also tour on a Rohoff bike. It is close to that range at 525 percent, but on tours I have spun out on downhills because of the smaller range.
I like to have a lot of gear choices for the range of gears where I do most of my pedaling. On a tour I spend the vast majority of my time in the 55 to 85 gear inch range, a tiny bit of time on gears over 100 gear inches for shallow downhills or strong tailwinds. And a small but important amount of time using a small number of really low gears for serious hill climbing.
It is a lot easier to set up a bike with that kind of gearing when I have a triple. Both the middle and big rings can be used on the flatter sections of road where I spend a lot of time and want a lot of gear choices. And a small single granny gear that is used only for the few gears I need for hill climbing. Even though I am running only an eight speed cassette, I have seven gears between 55 and 85 gear inches where I spend most of my time. And I have adequate lower and higher gearing for both downhills and uphills with a total range of 558 percent.
I also have seven gears in that 55 to 85 gear inch range on my road bike with a compact double and ten speed cassette, but that bike lacks the bigger gears for downhill and more importantly it also lacks the low gears for steep uphills. (I do not tour on that bike, I am only using it as an example.) In this regard I find my eight speed triple setup to be far preferable to a double with a ten speed. Thus, I am sticking with a triple for touring and for my rando bike. My road bike with a double will just be used for flatter riding that is shorter distance where it is unlikely that I will come across much in the way of hills.
And for that same reason, you will never find me on a 1X system either.
For touring I think about 550 percent range of gearing is a minimum. I also tour on a Rohoff bike. It is close to that range at 525 percent, but on tours I have spun out on downhills because of the smaller range.
#28
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My new bike is a double. The old one is a triple but I've been running it as a half step plus granny for a couple of years so it has been effectively a double and even more so when you consider that I rarely used the half step option. It is great if you like fine gear increments but I guess I am not that guy because I never used it much. It was intellectually satisfying to know that it was there. The new bike is an 11-42 ten speed on the rear and 28/42 on the front. Now the rear was 11-36 when I got it but I spent too much time on the Wolf Tooth website while looking at various bikes and considering how to fix the woefully inadequate low gears on many so called touring bikes. Personally I am more concerned about the low gears than the high but a decently wide rear cassette lets you get one without compromising the other too much from a double no matter which way your preference lean.
I'm unimpressed with X1 gearing so far. I might have bought a X1 bike however if it had the other features I was looking for. Something like the FSA/Metropolis Patterson two speed planetary crankset would work well with a X1 rear setup.
I'm unimpressed with X1 gearing so far. I might have bought a X1 bike however if it had the other features I was looking for. Something like the FSA/Metropolis Patterson two speed planetary crankset would work well with a X1 rear setup.
#29
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I was looking at my bikes, and working out what I want to do with them... I'm a good enough mechanic that I can re-purpose them rather than buying new... but buying a new bike would be nice... (In the name of marital harmony, stop!)
...ok...
Anyway, when I was in great shape, I even considered singling out my JTS up front, but it didn't really bother me to have the extra range up there, just starting to weight weenie, but that's not a WW type of frame anyway. Now, way out of shape, I was looking at using a single front on my Cannondale "fat guy" bike, but looking at the gear ranges available (without going to an expensive new drivetrain) convinced me to keep moving in my original direction. From 22/34 to 44/11 is pretty wide, and I think the former gives me less than 17 gear inches, so I can churn my way up some hills I'd otherwise peter out on.
I'll leave Jake as-is, though. If/when I get down to the mid-200s I'll give him a nice overhaul, new saddle and bar tape, and we'll ride off into the sunset together.
...ok...
Anyway, when I was in great shape, I even considered singling out my JTS up front, but it didn't really bother me to have the extra range up there, just starting to weight weenie, but that's not a WW type of frame anyway. Now, way out of shape, I was looking at using a single front on my Cannondale "fat guy" bike, but looking at the gear ranges available (without going to an expensive new drivetrain) convinced me to keep moving in my original direction. From 22/34 to 44/11 is pretty wide, and I think the former gives me less than 17 gear inches, so I can churn my way up some hills I'd otherwise peter out on.
I'll leave Jake as-is, though. If/when I get down to the mid-200s I'll give him a nice overhaul, new saddle and bar tape, and we'll ride off into the sunset together.
#30
-
Triple FTW - most range and usually more "true" gears despite redundancy. Double and single chainring drivetrains usually reduce gear range, have larger steps between gears, and are less efficient. Single ring drivetrain may seem like an improvement since it eliminates a derailleur, shifter, and ~1/3 or the cable/housing, but the result will be a poor chainline most of the time on a 1x11 or 1x12, with the same friction/inefficiency as riding cross-chained on a triple drivetrain. An experienced cyclist can sense the difference between an ideal ~99% efficiency straight chain run and the 90-95% efficiency resulting from a cross-chained or otherwise misaligned chain operating condition.
Those who lack the motivation/skill/curiosity to learn or understand derailleur adjustment are more likely to favor simpler 1x or 2x drivetrain. I'd rather take a couple hours to learn how it works and then forever get an extra 0.5-1.0 mph free speed from a more efficient drivetrain. Even 0.5mph is significant for loaded touring scenario with average speed of 10mph (5%).
Here's a useful tool to compare and visualize drivetrain options: https://www.gear-calculator.com
Those who lack the motivation/skill/curiosity to learn or understand derailleur adjustment are more likely to favor simpler 1x or 2x drivetrain. I'd rather take a couple hours to learn how it works and then forever get an extra 0.5-1.0 mph free speed from a more efficient drivetrain. Even 0.5mph is significant for loaded touring scenario with average speed of 10mph (5%).
Here's a useful tool to compare and visualize drivetrain options: https://www.gear-calculator.com
Last edited by seeker333; 09-11-18 at 12:55 PM.
#31
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On my tour from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego I used the the big ring (48T) only a handful of times. I learned that my middle ring (36T) was enough to get me up to about 26 MPH.... obviously only on the downhills. Any faster than that I was perfectly happy to coast. So after that trip I ditched the big ring and have been totally satisfied with a 24-36 double.
#32
Senior Member
Even on your high-diameter wheel setup, topping out at a 1-to-1 ratio would be extremely low; you'd need to spin a brisk ~110rpm just to go 10mph.
An experienced cyclist can sense the difference between an ideal ~99% efficiency straight chain run and the 90-95% efficiency resulting from a cross-chained or otherwise misaligned chain operating condition.
Those who lack the motivation/skill/curiosity to learn or understand derailleur adjustment are more likely to favor simpler 1x or 2x drivetrain. I'd rather take a couple hours to learn how it works and then forever get an extra 0.5-1.0 mph free speed from a more efficient drivetrain. Even 0.5mph is significant for loaded touring scenario with average speed of 10mph (5%).
Those who lack the motivation/skill/curiosity to learn or understand derailleur adjustment are more likely to favor simpler 1x or 2x drivetrain. I'd rather take a couple hours to learn how it works and then forever get an extra 0.5-1.0 mph free speed from a more efficient drivetrain. Even 0.5mph is significant for loaded touring scenario with average speed of 10mph (5%).
*Going by the frictionfacts study on sprocket size and chainline.
#33
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For touring I prefer bar end shifters for a couple reasons. But one key reason is when I put my hand on the shifter, just by the position of the lever I can tell if I am up on the small sprockets, or down on the biggest sprocket or someplace in the middle of the cassete. Same with the front shifter. And one reason I do not like brifters very much is that I can't tell what part of the cassette you are on because there is no feedback mechanism to tell you where you are on a cassette by feel. I find that I frequently cross chain with brifters but virtually never cross chain my derailleur touring bikes.
I think I am an experienced cyclist. But I can't feel any difference in "efficiency" or rolling resistance from cross chaining. But when badly cross chained, I usually notice much more chain noise.
This past spring I bought a new road bike with a compact double and ten speed cassette, uses brifters for shifting. I adjusted the front derailleur to give me chain rub when I am on the two most cross chained gear for each chainring so I have an audible warning when I am cross chained.
And my rando bike uses a brifter for the rear, friction downtube shifter for the front triple. I have no good warning of cross chaining on that bike other than a noisier chain.
#34
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For touring I prefer bar end shifters for a couple reasons. But one key reason is when I put my hand on the shifter, just by the position of the lever I can tell if I am up on the small sprockets, or down on the biggest sprocket or someplace in the middle of the cassete. Same with the front shifter. And one reason I do not like brifters very much is that I can't tell what part of the cassette you are on because there is no feedback mechanism to tell you where you are on a cassette by feel. I find that I frequently cross chain with brifters but virtually never cross chain my derailleur touring bikes.
#35
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My Rohloff bike is an S&S bike with 26 inch wheels, the 26 inch wheels pack easier than 700c. Not sure if the Pinion can be made to fit the entire bike in an S&S case. That is not a deal breaker issue, but when I am thinking about using my S&S bike on my next trip which will be international, that comes to mind.
#36
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Co-Motion apparently builds coupled Pinion bikes but their Pangea, for instance, would run over $7,000, ouch! Maybe the lighter wallet helps make up the Pinion weight.
#37
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#38
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I have toured all over the Midwest and the south down to the gulf with a double crank. 39 tooth small, 32 out back. Camping gear and tent, too. I suspect many a mountain would be walked with that set up, but we don't have mountains in the Midwest. Get a triple with a 22 or 24 if you plan to ride mountains.
#39
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I have toured all over the Midwest and the south down to the gulf with a double crank. 39 tooth small, 32 out back. Camping gear and tent, too. I suspect many a mountain would be walked with that set up, but we don't have mountains in the Midwest. Get a triple with a 22 or 24 if you plan to ride mountains.
https://www.horriblyhilly.com/
#41
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A biker at the Blue Ridge Parkway told me that Hannibal MO had climbs that were much steeper. 12 RAGBRAI's had over 6,700m climbing:
Myth-busting the RAGBRAI and Ride the Rockies bike tours ? Biking Bis
MidWest has huge flat parts of course but for versatility a wide gear range is still nice.
Myth-busting the RAGBRAI and Ride the Rockies bike tours ? Biking Bis
MidWest has huge flat parts of course but for versatility a wide gear range is still nice.
#42
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I have toured all over the Midwest and the south down to the gulf with a double crank. 39 tooth small, 32 out back. Camping gear and tent, too. I suspect many a mountain would be walked with that set up, but we don't have mountains in the Midwest. Get a triple with a 22 or 24 if you plan to ride mountains.
Every rider has a different ability- clearly. I would say you are in the top 5% with that gearing. Whats norm/average shouldnt be based on your setup, even for the midwest.
#43
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They're still the only way to achieve nice tight spacing across the classic spirited road-riding range and simultaneously have super-low bailouts available, at least without doing half-step or similar arrangements (and that has its own difficulties, since most modern cassettes don't have appropriately even spacing for it).
#44
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I use bar end shifters on my derailleur touring bikes with triples, the front shifter from Shimano is friction. I do not mind occasionally trimming it a bit as I move from one end of the cassette to the other on the middle ring. Thus, triples work great for me.
My rando bike has a brifter for the rear, downtube friction shifter with triple for the front. The downtube shifter is less than ideal compared to the bar ends in my opinion, but I have have not made a priority of swapping the front shifter for a bar end.
Last year a friend of mine was getting ready for his third cross country ride and about a month before he was to start, his rear Shimano brifter (9 speed) became dysfunctional. He could not find a good replacement quickly, asked me what I thought of bar ends. I let him ride one of my bikes for about 10 miles to try them. He bought bar ends and used them for his cross country tour, they worked great for him. One other person in his ACA cross country group on that tour had her rear brifter die on her, thus she finished that tour with a three speed bike (she had a triple, so she could shift the front only).
My rando bike has a brifter for the rear, downtube friction shifter with triple for the front. The downtube shifter is less than ideal compared to the bar ends in my opinion, but I have have not made a priority of swapping the front shifter for a bar end.
Last year a friend of mine was getting ready for his third cross country ride and about a month before he was to start, his rear Shimano brifter (9 speed) became dysfunctional. He could not find a good replacement quickly, asked me what I thought of bar ends. I let him ride one of my bikes for about 10 miles to try them. He bought bar ends and used them for his cross country tour, they worked great for him. One other person in his ACA cross country group on that tour had her rear brifter die on her, thus she finished that tour with a three speed bike (she had a triple, so she could shift the front only).
FWIW, I did that Savannah Way trip (but only to Darwin) and then Perth to Sydney with the bar ends.... Reliable they are..
#46
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#47
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46/30T chainrings with 11-34 or 11-36T cassettes.
This gives me gearing at least as low as my erstwhile 1990 Trek 520, and has the advantage of working with Di2.
This gives me gearing at least as low as my erstwhile 1990 Trek 520, and has the advantage of working with Di2.
#48
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I've ridden single speed tours, so its highly doable. I guess the only downfall is if you think one gear inch is going to make big difference in what you have to put out when riding. I guess when you don't realize it takes the same amount of power to go up a hill, no matter what hill it is than you really care. Gravity is gravity andyou have to overcome it one way or another. You still have to put out the same amount of power through the legs to make it up the climb or you won't make it up the climb. It still takes the same amount of effort whether riding in a 52x12 or 30x30, the only difference is how fast you pedal and how hard it seems due to the lack of speed of the pedals going around.
#49
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Until a few years ago if you were using a double you probably were using a compact crank with a small ring of 34T.
Double cranks that have two different size BCD chainrings is a pretty new offering. So, now it is easy to set up a bike with a smaller granny gear that is better sized for touring. Thus, I think there are more doubles in use for touring now than in the past.
I have given a bit of thought to using such a system on my road bike to take some of the pressure off my knees when hill climbing. This is basically a triple crank with a bashguard in the outer chainring position.
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s109...h-Zicral-Rings
Double cranks that have two different size BCD chainrings is a pretty new offering. So, now it is easy to set up a bike with a smaller granny gear that is better sized for touring. Thus, I think there are more doubles in use for touring now than in the past.
I have given a bit of thought to using such a system on my road bike to take some of the pressure off my knees when hill climbing. This is basically a triple crank with a bashguard in the outer chainring position.
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s109...h-Zicral-Rings
#50
Banned
A; Range of ratios.. My triples the smallest chainring
has just about half the tooth count of the largest ..
50-40-24, or 52-42-26 .. 48-36-22
(now there is an internal gearbox triple crankset , they shift very fast,
even when stopped)
..