Roody

Actually, home ownership was only a money making investment for 5 or 10 years in the late 1990s to mid 2000s. If you look at a graph of real estate prices for the last 150 years, corrected for inflation, it is almost a straight line with a few little "pimples" indicating very short-lived bubbles. At best, financially, home ownership was a hedge against inflation, a tax reducer, and a fancy savings account for retirement. Currently, my amateur prediction is that home prices in most communities will fall a bit more and will remain low for at least a couple years while foreclosures work their way through the market. And I would be surprised if they ever reach their recent high values until there's another bubble in fifty years or so.

nwmtnbkr

I retired from a "hip" area to an "unhip" area. I worked most of my career in Washington, D.C. but chose to retire to the "unhip" rural west--I currently live west of Glacier National Park. There are things I miss about D.C., but there is much more that I don't. Urban areas are over congested and close-in housing is expensive. If you're on a tight budget, then you may have to be prepared for the worse-case scenario--a long commute.

Even if the city you're looking at has mass transit, there's likely to be glitches in how it works for you if you have a long commute. For instance, the DC subway system is very nice, but it was designed in the 60s when most jobs were in downtown D.C. so it's set up like a wheel with spokes all going toward a center. Now that many jobs are in the suburbs and you've got many commuting from one suburb to another, the wheel configuration, which requires heading to a transfer point to change to a different "spoke," is inefficient and adds time to commutes (so much time on some commutes that the train becomes unfeasible as a mode of daily transportation). Mass transit can be unreliable, especially if the city doesn't budget for refurbishing their equipment and tries to run old systems beyond their lifespan; buses became a problem in the suburb where I used to live in Maryland; the number of late buses or no-show buses had commuters up in arms. Mass transit can be costly, too. Despite being heavily subsidized by US taxpayers, the D.C. metro is expensive if you live out in the burbs and need to commute very far on a daily basis.

Crime may be an issue too, at least for certain areas of any city. If you can sign up for police alerts, you might (some communities have them). It's a way to get a feel for what neighborhoods have more problems.

If you don't have a job lined up, be prepared to pay a premium for an apartment. Without a job, a complex may demand an upfront deposit that covers a certain number of months (given the current job market, I have no idea how many money might be demanded). You might be better off looking to sublet. However, pets will complicate any rental situation, especially with multiple dogs and if any are considered a "dangerous" breed you may be flat out-of-luck unless you find someone willing to rent a private home to you. You also may not be able to readily budget for your monthly expenses in a rental complex. I don't know about Seattle or Portand, but in D.C. a growing number of apartment complexes are owned by large corporations who have country-wide complexes. They're reconfiguring apartments and dropping individual electric meters. Instead, everyone pays a portion of the complex's total bill (including common areas). So even if you economize, during a cold winter or hot summer, you will pay a portion of your neighbors' electric bills.

Before you buy, I also think you should be certain you like the city that you move to. Just because you have family in Seattle and may have visited it, doesn't mean that you'll like living there, especially if you don't get a job that you love. Renting would at least allow you to check out the city before making a commitment.

There are plenty of "refugees" from Seatlle and Portland that relocated to my area. They have many of the same complaints that many urban dwellers have. You may find the grass isn't green on the other side once you get there. You may not want to completely dump the option of returning to a house that you've made into a cozy home. Good luck. It's always hard when deciding on making a major life change. I just wouldn't rush into buying.

cooker

What about a townhouse or rowhouse so you have yard access without the full cost of a fully detached home?

cyclezealot

If I were fresh into the job market, I'd think of never buying a home. Are we not told there is no possibility of a life time job anymore.. You'll get thru life hopefully with no more than 7 jobs.. So, why would you want a home for life. It would only be a liability when they can you.
So, being without a car payment or a mortgage should give one the freedom to be free.

nwmtnbkr

One doesn't always have to have a mortgage, whereas, if you rent you have to have some kind of contract with your landlord and you have no control over rents rising when inflation kicks in and your contract is up for renewal; rents are skyrocketing in some areas of the US. (If you rent and loose your job, the landlord's not going to forgive monthly rent, you'll get evicted, just like in a foreclosure.) I'm fortunate that I own my home outright. Much more secure than renting or owning with a mortgage.

cyclezealot

^....Owning a home and not being able to pay the mortgage when you get sacked every 7 years as we are promised- is hardly security.

Roody

For many people, owning a home in this recession is more like an anchor than a life preserver. If you can't sell your home, or you can sell it only if you'll take much less than you owe on it, you will find it hard to relocate to a region that has better job prospects.

cyclezealot

.^.... Go to bankruptcy .com . ^.. Your point is well taken....... And , how many millions of abandoned homes have been the result of the current economic meltdown. ?

Roody

I agree that it would be more secure to own your home outright. But where am I supposed to get this home without a mortgage? The only way I know of is to inherit it, and that's a pretty rare circumstance. Also, you can still get evicted if you don't pay your taxes, or you can be priced out if you need expensive repairs like a new roof and a new furnace.

The contract one has with a landlord (lease) typically has a period of one year. The landlord can't raise the rent during that year. If he wants to raise it after the year is over, you negotiate or move. This is much easier than getting out of a mortgage when a balloon payment kicks in. If rents are skyrocketing in an are, it's usually because there is a housing shortage. In that case, the purchase price of homes will be skyrocketing also.

Roody

A few months ago I heard that there were 14 million abandoned homes due to foreclosure in the US. I don't know how accurate that figure is. But it's a lot, and they say we're only halfway through the process of stabilizing the market.

erbfarm

I'm definitely off the large urban area kick. My short list looks like this:
Burlington, VT
Northampton, MA
Ithaca, NY
Ann Arbor, MI
Madison, WI
and probably any other liberal stronghold of around 40,000 people w/ a large university system in it

wahoonc

Iowa City, IA would be on my list along with Madison. It is a nice college town with an outstanding medical center and is working hard to become even more cyclist/pedestrian friendly.

Aaron

sykerocker 

Take a look at State College, PA. An island of culture out in the middle of nowhere.

Also, don't necessarily write off conservative areas. The college towns in them would probably have you living quite comfortably (I'm assuming from your writing that you need to be in a politically liberal area to feel comfortable). With that in mind, Charlottesville, VA, downtown Richmond, VA (the Fan area around VCU) and Indiana, PA (home of the Indiana University of Pennsylvania - about 30 miles north east of Pittsburgh) have a lot to be said for them.

cyclezealot

From my observations- It's been few university areas where bike infrastructure did not exceed the national standard.

erbfarm

Well folks, looks like we're going put some of these ideas to the test *real* soon as my husband just got laid off yesterday so the deal is on right now to find a new spot and navigate this new landscape. I say new landscape b/c I think those days of finding a "good" job, meaning a nice salary w/ benefits and reasonable workload so that you can live in that decent house w/ nice yard and convenient location are pretty much over. I think the new normal is going to be contract work, part time gigs, and so on. I really hope the govt can get some sort of public option health insurance thing going b/c that is the part that scares me the most regarding our own situation. While I can stomach the idea of living on less $$, I can't imagine what it would be like to pay for medical care out of pocket. I would be considered a very healthy person by most standards, but even so, I've got a couple of unusual and long term conditions (related to eye sight and dental issues) that are just plain expensive to deal with and require ongoing care. I'm somebody who can't get by w/o health insurance. But other than that, I guess we'll be casting our nets far and wide and keeping an open mind about where we might end up.

Curious LeTour

I was reading every reply, but I ran out of time.

I was in a similar situation. I wanted to live in Austin. It isn't as expensive here as it is on the west coast, but it is the most expensive area in this region of the U.S. I solved the $$$ problem by living in a small travel trailer in a trailer park for 320 a month, plus utilities (and mowing my yard). I work for an environmental company that plants native plants for the wealthy, and for government projects. I'm out working on the land too.

Well, my trailer was slightly too small at a 105' sq. ft. of interior space. I could have easily continued living in it, but I didn't have much room for my dirty clothes even, which was mostly due to the fact that a queen sized bed was not practical for that camper in a full time situation. The other thing is that I've began dating more, and the camper life just was not cutting it. Last, I wanted to live closer to downtown Austin.

So, I moved 3 miles closer in. I was 7 miles out. I rent two bedrooms in a 5 bedroom home for $600 a month, plus my share in the utilities. One room will be used as inventory for an online retail business that I'm setting up.

First, will it only be you and your mate? If so, do you really need 1,100 sq. feet? Consider living in something smaller than average, and/or consider co-housing.

Basically, we have a bit of a hippie co-housing project starting up here. I'm single, and really enjoy the company of roommates.

erbfarm

nothing like a little necessity to really change your perspective. the house we've been living in for the past 15 years is 2200 sq ft. It is considered "tiny" for this part of the country where giant old colonials, sprawling farm houses, and McMansions glower o'er the landscape. We also have a couple acres of land. So it really took a mental leap for me to begin to think we could survive just fine in a house half the size and w/ a yard a fraction of what we have now. that was a BIG leap for me as I grow most of our food and have a garden about 7500 sq ft but have been experimenting w/ a "square foot" garden system to see if I could still produce food in a smaller area. Plus I live in a very rural area and am used to lots of pasture and woods around me and open space. Again, a huge leap into thinking about living at such proximity to other people. But, we may end up in a configuration we wouldn't have considered or thought we could manage, who knows, really. Right now, my desire to go car free may just become a reality out of necessity. Actually, I'd walk right into that shoe right now, it's just the 700 ft incline up to my house that is so daunting, I hate that climb and the thought of lugging 50 pounds of dog food up that hill almost makes me cry. I'm a flat lander by nature as I"m from the midwest. But getting rid of my car has never been more tempting.

wahoonc

Good luck with whatever choices you make!

We currently live in the outer edges of what is becoming suburbia along with all the good and the bad. Squarefoot gardening rocks! With cold frames and a 100 watt light bulb I can pretty much garden year round in the part of the south I live in. Going from the open spaces of a country home to living in a large city can be hard, I prefer smaller towns that can be easily covered in a few minutes by bike. I have found that quite often you can get free use of a lot on the edge of town for gardening, or in some cases they have nice community gardening opportunities.

Aaron

wheel

I can suggest a few places that may appeal.

Austin Texas IT hub
Tempe Arizona IT hub
Salt Lake City Utah
Colorado Springs CO sorta IT hub

I live in Scottsdale near Tempe and am carfree. Tons of cycling infrastructure and great weather. Very cheap.
Lots of call center jobs for IT.

old and new

The member just before me stated Salt Lake City; Colorado and others. I suppose they've advantages. Most all that's been written here makes seense, your thoughts too. Many aspects well anylized.
ITHICA is a standout; I'm from Ny State so I'm partial, Up State's beautifull in every way and not an obnoxious ride or trip by bus or if you would rent a car or otherwise get to NYC from time to time. Moreover.. Ithica and saimilar Up State towns and cities are DIRT CHEAP !!!! I'm talkin' properties at mid-1960s prices; 60k in some cases, 160 for an huge Colonial on half an acre just for example. Rental is less than 7,8 (actually less) in some cases. Perhaps not neccessarily in that exact city proper but all up through there. A negative turned into a possitive, your possitive. The whole darn Up State's depressed, you won't be.

akohekohe

Get a Surly Big Dummy with an electric assist system and you will carry the 50 lbs up that hill no problem. Really. Do it.

Smallwheels

When I was in my 20s I considered unusual alternatives to regular houses. I still would like an underground home. I also like the Monolithic Dome Homes. Those would still be houses just in an unusual form.

An alternative that I would like to own is a custom designed mobile home. It would be all fiberglass with thick insulation from top to bottom. It would be capable of being sealed water tight. That way in any flooding situation it would float. I would also have all the regular edges made very round. It wouldn't be a cylinder but it would be more like the way a loaf of bread is round on the top and ends. That way it would be more aerodynamic to avoid being damaged by high winds.

Essentially it would be like a house boat one might see floating in a river in Europe. It would be long, no wider than sixteen feet, but it wouldn't have a deck. Instead it would just have a door and windows that could be sealed in case of a flood. It would be about sixty feet long and have solar panels on the roof.

If I went to a luxury boat builder and wanted this made it would cost about a million dollars. Wouldn't it be strange to park a million dollar trailer home in a regular trailer park? The best thing about this idea is that it would not only be a luxurious small home, it would be totally portable. You could keep your home forever. Just move it to wherever you want to live.

Dahon.Steve

Wow! You have my condolences.

What's really going to destroy the middle class is health insurance. The prices of health care is skyrocketing and companies are dropping their health care for employees and the ones that have good plans like my job are looking to go HMO. You end up in a hospital without coverage and get ready to empty the equity of your home to pay the bills. Diabetes, cancer, heart disease and Alzheimer’s are going to break Medicare and Medicaid if we don't get control of the costs.

Going car free was easy, but going health care free is going to be next! Seriously. Americans are being priced out of health care just as they will be the motorcar

Dahon.Steve

As crazy as it sounds, I'm beginning to like the idea of living in a motorized home! LOL! There are thousands of people in this country living in campers, vans, cars, buses and RVs and living like minimalists. It's an idea that I'm going to serious consider once I hit 65 and can no longer live in my area on Social Security.

My other plan is to move to India after retirement. You can live real cheap in that country! LOL!

Roody

Here's a new idea. How about a small town? There are a lot of small towns that contain a small liberal arts college. You could easily live in the country and still only be as couple miles from town. These towns can be progressive bastions with a very comfortble lifestyle at a very low price. Renting a tiny house in the country may be the cheapest housing anywhere. I'm thinking of a college with maybe 1,000 enrollment in a town of maybe 5,000 to 10,000 people. Olivet, MI is one such town that I'm aware of, but they are all over the place.