JoeyBike

I used to, now and then. That video is circa.2008.

Did the cyclist have a stop sign? And if that was a median you were turning left through (hard to tell) even if there is not stop sign in the median, the stop is implied (and required by law) any time you cut through a median on a boulevard type road IF there is crossing traffic. It is very rare that a left turning car will have right of way over the crossing traffic in this instance. And do you think you could have hit that cyclist even if you wanted to? Hard to tell with wide angle video.

Didn't look like the motorist was put out much. That is standard operating procedure in New Orleans. Motorists expect cyclists to keep moving. We have them conditioned.

mr_bill

The cyclist had a yield sign. We call them rotaries around here. Around here, about 5% of people driving cars, 5% of people riding motorcycles, and 5% of people riding bicycles put the other 95% out in rotaries. That 5% has got us well trained, so we *always* look out for the 5%.

-mr. bill

JoeyBike

Makes sense now. Thanks.

Digital_Cowboy

I never said "most," I've said too many. There is a difference. And again, if the cyclist, the motorist or a pedestrian has to take some sort of evasive action to avoid being hit or hitting someone then the maneuver was not done safely.

Digital_Cowboy

Exactly, but there are too many people here who by their own admission are not performing a true Idaho Stop, rather they're performing/practicing their own version or variation of the Idaho Stop, such as I believe that it was Jaywalk3r who said that he practiced an "approximation" of the Idaho Stop, i.e. yielding at every red light and stop sign instead of stopping for red lights and proceeding only if it is safe to do so, and likewise treating stop signs as yield signs. So that in effect that he is treating both red lights and stop signs as yield signs instead of treating red lights as stop signs and stop signs as yield signs.

Digital_Cowboy

Agreed, and there also appear that there are people in this thread who for whatever reason that either unable or unwilling to accept that there are in fact too many cyclists out there who are in fact running red lights and stop signs without looking and without slowing down. Who probably just by the "skin of their teeth" have managed NOT to get hit or to hit anyone else.

And also sadly some of those same people because of whatever reason that they can't accept that there are people who are acting with reckless and wanton disregard for not only their own safety but the safety of those around them that think that those of us who do acknowledge their existence and that they are part of the problem apparently in order to make themselves feel better they have to accuse those people of being "self loathing" cyclists, or of being "intellectually dishonest," or worst "liars."

I do not think that any of us who have called cyclists on their own bad behavior has ever denied that motorists endanger outnumber cyclists in that regard. We just are acknowledging that there are also plenty of cyclist out there on the road who are at least partially to blame for the crashes that they've been involved in. I cannot see what that is so hard for them to understand and accept.

Equinox

I , for one, don't accept it because it's ridiculous. And the more you propagate this falsehood to denigrate cyclists as a group, the more you take attention away from the true problem. Thirteen law abiding cyclists mowed down in two recent accidents with 5 dead, and your talking about an occurrence that is minuscule. Your position is that a large number of cyclists engage in a behavior that has a huge downside(death) and an insignificant reward(clearing an intersection). And your explanation for the lack of deaths is luck. I mean, C'mon. Even you don't believe that. What's worse, if you saw me ride, I have no doubt you would accuse me of this behavior, and you couldn't be more wrong. So either there are an enormous number of psychopaths in your community(which I doubt) or you are misinterpreting what you are seeing (which I'm sure is the case). And while you are certainly not the only one to say this about cyclists, most of the people who say this have an anti-cyclist agenda, again, because they are misinterpreting what they're seeing.

CB HI

Which proves my point.

Leisesturm

This. And only this. It boils down to this. I don't think it can be summed up any better. About the only thing left to do is leave the frustrated cycling martyrs to it. What's that saying? #$% 'em if they can't take a joke! I just don't see things changing for the foreseeable future.

Equinox

If i ever saw an bicyclist truly blow through an intersection, I would absolutely condemn that behavior. I would be upset mostly for the oncoming vehicles that would injure or kill the bicyclist and the effect that would have on the driver. How you feel about a purposeful road bike rider proceeding through an intersection against the light at speed after ascertaining that it is safe to do so? Are you truly a "rules are rules" person? I was thinking about this while riding with my group. We went through every stop sign unless there was oncoming traffic. It was a lively, athletic ride with mature people. I cannot conceive of anyone objecting to our behavior or accuse us of being a danger to others or ourselves. How do you think a group such as this should ride?

mr_bill

Really? Quote the Massachusetts FRAP law cited in that opinion. I won't hold my breath.

(Hint - it isn't quoted in that opinion - because there is *NO* *MASSACHUSETTS* *FRAP* LAW.)

-mr. bill

genec

OK, amoung just us cyclists... what you are saying is probably true... and those folks that just make it by scant nano seconds are just that... scant nano seconds away from becoming Darin Award Winners... that does become something of a self limiting problem...

But for motorists to single out us few cyclists (we largely still represent less than 2% of all traffic in most US cities) as "a traffic problem" is just absurd.

I think that is what you are hearing a lot of whining about here... Yeah, cyclists have killed what 2-3 people in the last 3-4 years, upset perhaps hundreds, maybe thousands of pedestrians, caused what, maybe thousands of emergency stops... BUT WE ARE NOT KILLING 30,000 + fellow humans each year... and to point a bony finger at cyclists and cast out that "they just blow through red lights" meme, is just lame.

JoeyBike

Two reasons why this might happen. 1. Cyclist is a substance abuser and drunk/high, or 2. Cyclist has some momentary lapse of concentration for whatever reason - distracted, sleepy, mentally ill, or some other "honest" mistake.

To say that sane, sober cyclists are out there running lights - in great numbers - without looking - is just trolling. This would be suicide. I wouldn't get through even ONE day blasting through red lights not looking and neither would anyone else. So lack of carnage is proof that this is just not happening. Truth is, I NEVER want to slow down, and I only do so when forced to by self preservation instinct - so you are HALF right. Lots of us speed through intersections. The faster I hit an intersection with good sight lines, the smaller the gap I need to get across. But you are also half dead wrong. We ARE looking.

baron von trail 

+1

I have two "death trap" stops during my commute home on a beautiful MUP through the woods. Both are at really inopportune times. I'm usually going a nice 18-20 mph when I arrive at each. They are spaced a little over a mile apart. Rare is the time when there is actually a car coming at either crossing. But, when they come, you can't see them due to a curve in the road and the thick woods. So, I have no choice but to slow down to a crawl for each. It really sucks...but, yeah, ignoring the risk would be suicide.

JoeyBike

We all (city dwellers) have intersections that make us stop and wait for a green, or at least stop to get a good, long look upstream both ways. I live in a city with thousands of signals. To think I could just blow through ANY of them blindfolded is just...well...I don't even know what to call it.

At every intersection I have to look for the obvious cars, then look for cars eclipsed by larger vehicles, then look for parked cars about to squeal from the curb towards me, then do the same in the opposite direction, then glance back again before crossing the far lanes. That is a LOT of looking which may not be readily apparent to every road user around me.

genec

+ about oh 10 million.

Look if you want to live, you have to have some idea that it is safe to go through...

baron von trail 

I look four or five times before crossing large intersections, and keep looking left and right while crossing. Even on the rural, "I never see a car here" crossings, I look twice, in both directions. I just do that without stopping. But, rare is an intersection where I do not at least slow way down. One or two maybe. But those have unobstructed views beginning about 50 feet from the crossing.

CB HI

You seem to have problems reading, as my earlier post clearly noted that Massachusetts cyclist are ticketed for not riding FRAP even though Massachusetts does not have a FRAP law. The summary judgement proves the police and that judge enforce FRAP without any such law.

Again, thank you for proving my point with your link.

Paul Barnard

The number of cyclists who pass through stop signs and red lights without looking is miniscule and insignificant. It very rarely happens. I'd venture a guess that cyclists do it less than motorists and than when they pass through a red light or stop sign without looking it's an accident rather than a purposeful decision. The bicycle crash stats would tend to uphold my belief. When cyclists do pass through red lights and stop signs after making sure it's safe to do so, it's not bad behavior. Every day motorists and cyclists bend the law in an insignificant way and they do so safely. Answer a question honestly for me. Do you signal every turn and lane change you make every time without fail even when no other vehicles are present?

Miele Man

It's extremely obvious that you've never been at Yonge & Bloor in Toronto Canada not have you been at the other big & busy intersections in Toronto Canada where bicyclists blowing through red lights is COMMON.

I just love it when people who are hundreds if not thousands of miles away tell people who see things that they're wrong.

Cheers

Paul Barnard

Blowing through red lights WITHOUT LOOKING is COMMON? Man, I want to read the accident statistics for Toronto. Bicyclists surely must be killed and injured at a much greater rate than other places.

JoeyBike

And furthermore....I even look carefully before before blowing through a GREEN light. I treat the lights like suggestions, or don't even look at them at all. I look for TRAFFIC very carefully. It just doesn't take me very long to process the information.

Accidents happen because someone in a car blew a red, and someone else in a car blew a green.

Equinox

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JoeyBike

^^ Exactly!

(I actually have a lot of faith that the other guy is going to screw up)

Paul Barnard

I had something interesting happen to me today on my 34 mile loop. I don't mind using a shoulder or a parking lane to travel in, but when I approach a traffic light or stop sign I become a part of traffic in the traffic lanes. It lessens my chances of being right hooked or having a left turner take me out. Today I moved into the traffic lane and as I did the light turned red. As soon as the little cross traffic cleared, a guy behind me honked. I looked back and he motioned for me to go. I was getting ready to go anyway. When I did he took a right. He thought it was OK for me to scoot on across so he could make his turn.